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Northern franchise announcement / changes
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That's very wide of the mark.
There's also been an internal memo on this subject, I'm not at liberty to disclose it but I'm sure someone has or will.
True, thanks. My mistake.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Expect that announcement in the 11th March budget with the chancellor already trailing that infrastructure expenditure [QUOTE There will be an infrastructure revolution in our great country QUOTE]
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superkev
Established Member
Dont see the link above to todays Gov Northern statement link here. Apologies if it's been posted.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/rail-update-northern-franchise.
I'm sure he will sit on his hands till Northern get the new trains working and the drivers trained. He can then jump in and say hes sorted it.
K
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/rail-update-northern-franchise.
I'm sure he will sit on his hands till Northern get the new trains working and the drivers trained. He can then jump in and say hes sorted it.
K
Not if there's no progress on Piccadilly platforms 15/16 he won't.
15/16 could just move the bottlenecks to Ordsall Lane Jn and Piccadilly East Jn. Oxford Rd already acts as a version of what Piccadilly 15/16 would do on that corridor and it's always been pretty common to end up sat waiting a signal to get in to Oxford Rd.
The analysis in Modern Railways a few months ago showed that the flat junctions to the West of the actual corridor are even more of an issue than the corridor itself. The bids of the various TOCs, accepted by the government, exceed the capacity of the infrastructure. As Mr Murison says in the paper, the Chord made things worse.
Why are Arriva still being allowed to run/be part of any franchises?
Trans Pennine Express is a major problem in the North as well and now the West Coast main line is partly in Arriva'a hands as well.
Shouldn't Arriva be receiving a similar ban to that Stagecoach/Virgin received.
Double standards.
Trans Pennine Express is a major problem in the North as well and now the West Coast main line is partly in Arriva'a hands as well.
Shouldn't Arriva be receiving a similar ban to that Stagecoach/Virgin received.
Double standards.
The delay at MOR could well have been because of congestion caused by the slow loading at Piccadilly. The consensus is that Piccadilly alone would have been more use than the chord alone, that both are needed to get more out of either...
The best is the enemy of the good!
An all-singing, all-dancing upgrade would be nice, but completing these two (the chord and Piccadilly) would be a very good start. Oxford Rd will need platforms lengthening etc., but in the short term I think it would be worth omitting the stop on longer trains on long-distance routes serving the expanded Piccadilly through platforms.
What ban?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
May I check: The BIG announcement is, essentially, we are changing the franchise but will announce how in another BIG announcement in a few weeks?
I think Northern as a brand name is toxic. However, the challenge is to come up with a brand that doesn't have use Northern in it (examples of non geographic c2c, One!)
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Northern as a brand is toxic. It will be renamed Great Northern Trains or somesuch.
If split E-W I hope they go for the North Eastern Railway
Actually lets go the whole hog.
East: Stockton and Darlington Railway
West: Liverpool and Manchester Railway
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Baxenden Bank
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Robertj21a
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You've lost me, do you want to explain that a bit clearer ?
What have Transpennine Express got to do with it? They might have been equally crap recently, but they have nothing to do with Arriva.
The Stagecoach/Virgin situation was completely different as well.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
could you explain this post a bit. I am afraid i don't understand it. What ban? TPE is run by First isnt it? Avanti is First/Trenitalia.
sprinterguy
Established Member
Yep, that's the one.
The West Coast franchise, if that's what you're referring to, has no Arriva involvement (Nor does Transpennine Express, as noted above). Unless you're referring to the new Euston - Blackpool open access services due to start later this year in which case I apologise for my misunderstanding.
Stagecoach were disqualified from the Southeastern, East Midlands and West Coast franchise competitions due to irregularities over how they proposed to handle pension funding, nothing to do with franchise management.
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
Nor are they barred from bidding for other franchises if they so wish.
sprinterguy
Established Member
Indeed.
I assume Buspilot is referring to the yet to start Grand Central Blackpool to Euston services.
Robertj21a
On Moderation
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I thought he assumed Avanti was Arriva.....
They've said they have no interest in competing for new franchises though
https://www.ft.com/content/33ff579e-97e0-11e9-9573-ee5cbb98ed36
Of course, post Williams review they may come back, but that's getting off-topic.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Arriva aren't anything to do with West Coast that's First Group. Arrivas German parent Deutsche Bahn actually want rid of the company so im sure they will be delighted for the government to take it off there hands
For reasons of scaling back debt in DB, as opposed to Northern,though.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I think you are looking at it only through UK eyes.
Arriva plc has significant and apparently successful operations in many other EU countries (train, bus, tram etc).
It's something of a distress sale for DB who need the cash to meet their domestic obligations in Germany.
Last thing we heard they were soldiering on with Arriva as the bids weren't high enough - they need it to be a going concern.
If Arriva UK is in trouble because of Northern, it may impact the Grand Central operation which they fund without any government help.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Is it? Southern was, but I think it's all settled down again now.
The meeting at TfN was eye-opening yesterday.
- Talk of a meeting on the 23rd January to discuss which Northern services may be reduced or temporarily suspended to improve punctuality/resilience. Cheshire East and Merseyside most concerned about this (which would infer the Crewe to Liverpool via Manchester Airport service appears to be the obvious one to be split and revert back to pre-May 2018 operation)
- TfN wholeheartedly backed new platforms at Piccadilly and upgrade at Oxford Road yesterday. This is a big step. Since its foundation in 2018, previously TfN has been very parochial - but it has come to the conclusion that this key bottleneck is exporting too many delays to the network across the north and beyond. This should turn heads in Whitehall and I now expect this infrastructure to be approved (even if they don't believe the benefit to cost ratio and disruption in Manchester city centre is overly compelling)
- ARN's 'financial situation' being cited as a concern won't help its case to operate the franchise on revised terms with a management contract. Government would naturally reluctant for Arriva to overpromise again and for the franchise to bust again in a year or two.
- Would expect official announcement next month or in March judging by what the minister said at the TfN meeting (i.e. due diligence, legal checks have to made etc)
- It would potentially be in the government's interests to wait until the summer. Rolling stock issues should be sorted which won't be resulting as many delays - govt can present this as early progress. By allowing the franchise to financially default rather than 'stripping' it they reduce threat of a claim/litigation.
- Talk of a meeting on the 23rd January to discuss which Northern services may be reduced or temporarily suspended to improve punctuality/resilience. Cheshire East and Merseyside most concerned about this (which would infer the Crewe to Liverpool via Manchester Airport service appears to be the obvious one to be split and revert back to pre-May 2018 operation)
- TfN wholeheartedly backed new platforms at Piccadilly and upgrade at Oxford Road yesterday. This is a big step. Since its foundation in 2018, previously TfN has been very parochial - but it has come to the conclusion that this key bottleneck is exporting too many delays to the network across the north and beyond. This should turn heads in Whitehall and I now expect this infrastructure to be approved (even if they don't believe the benefit to cost ratio and disruption in Manchester city centre is overly compelling)
- ARN's 'financial situation' being cited as a concern won't help its case to operate the franchise on revised terms with a management contract. Government would naturally reluctant for Arriva to overpromise again and for the franchise to bust again in a year or two.
- Would expect official announcement next month or in March judging by what the minister said at the TfN meeting (i.e. due diligence, legal checks have to made etc)
- It would potentially be in the government's interests to wait until the summer. Rolling stock issues should be sorted which won't be resulting as many delays - govt can present this as early progress. By allowing the franchise to financially default rather than 'stripping' it they reduce threat of a claim/litigation.
wolfman
Member
Typical Tory response when all else fails blame the unions.
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