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Southern Rail operating well now?
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't know about the main bit of Southern but the WCML service (which was dire to the point of unusable) is now pretty reliable and far outshines LNR in not being delayed or cancelled (LNR now being dire almost to the point of being unusable, though not quite that bad due to the highish frequencies).
Surreytraveller
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The industrial action of three years ago has finished. The May timetable change last year also introduced a lot of changes to improve reliability - there's hardly any splitting and joining at Victoria and London Bridge. Driver changes en route have been drastically reduced. Improved turnaround times at terminals. Stock and crews tend to stick to particular service groups to prevent disruption spreading from one group to another.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I can think of three TOCs which could learn a lot from that. I think people probably know which ones I'm talking about.
Some on the Midsussex have well worn suspensions that bottom out with a bang, others do not in the same place. I agree service on the Mid Sussex has certainly improved, before you never knew getting to Horsham what would happen up or down, split or not to split etc. Splitting still takes longer most days than scheduled so a rare day you are exactly on time at Chichester. Redhill Tunbridge was excellent till the recent earth problems. Coastway West is very iffy, 313 are well past sell by date, two units have given me a shower in heavy rain out of the light fittings and a driver was telling me the other day he wears a poncho to keep dry in the cabs. Plenty of glass fibre/Denzo tape looking at the cabs. Timetable is very poor, no semi fasts even, just a nearly all shacks service - no toilets for over an hours run remember. The GW Bristol from Brighton at 1702 rarely gets a check free run but at least is far more comfortable. One saving grace is the 377s on the coastway seem to still have the better 2+2 more padded seats than the 'refreshed' 3+2 MidSussex 377 ironing boards. Waste of money that, you cannot get 3 people wearing coats on the 3 seats and getting air craft sized trollies luggage down the aisles is a nightmare, this on trains stopping at an International Airport.
Robertj21a
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It's been a very good experience whenever I've used any Southern service recently. Other TOCs should take note !
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
From my (work etc) , experience - once the London Bridge works were done and bedded in , plus some modest changes - what in old money was "South London Metro" has worked very well ....
Not of course , that the media trumpets that.
Not of course , that the media trumpets that.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
For sure the revised May 18 TT for Southern and Thameslink was transformational in terms of both reliability and significant reductions in skip stopping when the service is in perturbation. GTR planned this resilience in when they overhauled the TT and had they not bodged Thameslink part they may have got some recognition from the passengers. GTRs passengers numbers certainly increased after the TT change although have been pretty static since.
See https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/passenger-rail-usage/
See https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/passenger-rail-usage/
Would suggest those who enacted such improvements are needed at Northern Rail. Common sense solutions to improve service reliability.
It’s mostly about the resource plan and longer turnarounds.
It is timetabled not to have a clear run. It has 4 1/2 mins pathing time to keep it behind the preceeding stopper to Littlehampton.
They beat the RMT and things have improved ... None of the others have ... Any correlation?
Malcolmffc
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Looks like DOO has been a huge success 
Harold Hill
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It's been a very good experience whenever I've used any Southern service recently.
I've traveled on a half-dozen different TOCs in the past few weeks and yes, I agree
I've traveled on a half-dozen different TOCs in the past few weeks and yes, I agree
MotorcycleAlan
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Sorry but it's the great Northern/Southern divide often brought up on here.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Looks like DOO has been a huge success
I doubt it's really had much to do with it apart from allowing maybe 20 second shorter station stops. It's the timetable and diagram simplification that has done it and is now proven to work.
Northern, TPE and LNR - how about it?
TrainGeekUK
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With the timetable changes, having the Ashford diesels running only between Eastbourne and Ashford rather than from Brighton as a fast, has stopped the incessant cramming that that Marshlink service consistently had with only two coaches. A much more pleasant journey now from Brighton with four coaches guaranteed and a clear train at Eastbourne to board when that arrives.
dk1
Veteran Member
Used it several times recently & its run like clockwork. Loadings back up too with some very busy off-peak services.
It must be said that I have many times been on delayed off-peak all shacks services that are on time by destination due to the sometimes very short dwells. Some of the coastway slows do not have much turnaround time so it makes a big difference to be able to recover this en route without pulling stops.
Southern runs fairly well now, on all the routes that I experience in South London. The issues are primarily infrastructure based now. Obviously the OBS / DOO dispute has helped, but as did some considerable beneficial changes in the May '18 timetable. It introduced some more changing for some passengers but after the initial grumbles I think people were happier with a more reliable timetable.
Thameslink is now the more problematic operator with its 2-3 hour diagrams and multiple opportunities to pick up delay, especially in the peak.
Thameslink is now the more problematic operator with its 2-3 hour diagrams and multiple opportunities to pick up delay, especially in the peak.
Staffordian
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Amazed that DOO shortens station stops by 20 seconds. If so, then I understand why DfT is so keen on it - perhaps more should be done to publicise this as the justification for DOO, rather than allowing people to think “it’s all about money”.
Thanks for explanation, a long time since the loop at Worthing was used to let the Exeter and Bristols overtake but at least the seats are comfy. I noticed the same benefit of comfy seats of the GWR units from Redhill to GA before the earth fell away at Edenbridge, I can't go that way now as a ticket to TW is now nearly £90 return on the Internet as opposed to £29 via Redhill which has disappeared.
Back on thread, overall I would agree the service has indeed improved from its previous lows.
Robertj21a
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It's a bit ironic that the operator that won all the battles over DOO/OBS has since become one of the best TOCs - while many of the others are still in mini-disaster mode.
It did help that it was a management contract and the DfT backed them to the hilt on the DOO issue. With the exception of SWR, most London-centric TOCs are having a comparatively decent time.
Class455
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Having been a regular Southern commuter for nearly 9 years, I have to say that the service is now performing at the best I've ever seen it. From having so many cancellations back in 2016/17, from the moment they implemented the amended May 2018 timetable, services have drastically improved. I've noticed far fewer cancellations on my route than they were previously. Whilst I do wish that all services to Caterham were 455 operated, the 377's being used on the Caterham/Tattenham Corner to London Bridge services perform much better and do not encounter too many issues when the attachment is being made at Purley.
TPE on the other hand, who I use when I'm at uni are now at the level that Southern were in 2016/17, absolutely terrible. But it'll only be a matter of time when all the new trains are in service and things will start to improve slightly. Things won't improve fully there until at least any de-congestion work to do with the Castlefield corridor and the electrification of the route between Huddersfield and Leeds is complete
TPE on the other hand, who I use when I'm at uni are now at the level that Southern were in 2016/17, absolutely terrible. But it'll only be a matter of time when all the new trains are in service and things will start to improve slightly. Things won't improve fully there until at least any de-congestion work to do with the Castlefield corridor and the electrification of the route between Huddersfield and Leeds is complete
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It takes out the time to open the local door and check the platform before release, plus the time to close the local door at the end and buzz buzz, buzz buzz. Adds up to about that. Driver release saves about 5-10s, this is very noticeable between Southern services (driver release) and LNR ones (full guard operation) on the WCML.
Had a nice clear run Christmas eve 70mph Hove to Worthing as the 313 was cancelled but sadly got stranded at Barnham for THREE HOURS then ran all shacks to Fratton due to a blown fuse
I agree 313s are woeful
Too many turnarounds still at fareham?
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bramling
Veteran Member
I think this sums things up well. The May 18 timetable is on paper rather good, in that most of the GN and SN services have quite robust paths and operational arrangements, in terms of things like crewing and turnarounds.
Thameslink is and remains the big weakness. Slightest whiff of issues and it collapses and drags down everything else with it.
bramling
Veteran Member
The battered part could and should be addressed with a refurbishment, however the commuter part could be a benefit for dwell times as end-door stock is far from ideal on more dense-traffic routes. IMO the west coastway certainly fits into that group at times, if not all the time.
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