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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

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spark001uk

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It's plausible that was read that drivers were hoping for disruption. Not quite sure what would be behind that assumption though, unless it was indeed meant sarcastically! Made me smile anyway.
 

HamworthyGoods

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I’ll hop off...!
Hopping makes sense, whilst we all have our grumbles about the railway hoping for disruption isn’t good!
 

DerekC

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Writing this on 9P35 - 11:45 Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo. Joined at Petersfield (3 mins late) currently 6 minutes late on the up fast between Woking and Clapham Junction. My first trip on a refurbed 442 so interesting to compare with the Siemens kits (444s) that I was used to. (I am in car 9 of 10)

General impression
  • Good interior - nice colours and lots of space (as good as or better than the new trains)
  • Good PA (hasn't been used much - no auto announcements)
  • Seats OK - shape of the squab doesn't suit me as well but that's pretty subjective
  • Very laid back trip - slow acceleration and very gentle braking into stations - feels very old-fashioned compared with the newer trains (OK, there are power restrictions, I understand, but we are not in peak). Getting wound up nicely on the up fast, though.
  • Ride OK - a lot more body movement than the Siemens trains on the winding bits on the Portsmouth Direct and a quite uncomfortable high frequency (maybe 2-3Hz) wobble which sounds suspension or bogie related at high speed on the up main. (That was between Woking and about Farnborough:rolleyes: Esher which I think is the 100 mph section)
  • Same old doors so the dwell times won't be anything to shout about - can't see that today as there are only about four other passengers in the car
Overall not bad and the punters will think they are one-up on the 450s which I guess was the idea! But definitely feels like a life extension on an oldie.
 
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Thumper1127

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Writing this on 9P35 - 11:45 Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo. Joined at Petersfield (3 mins late) currently 6 minutes late on the up fast between Woking and Clapham Junction. My first trip on a refurbed 442 so interesting to compare with the Siemens kits that I was used to. (I am in car 9 of 10)

General impression
  • Good interior - nice colours and lots of space (as good as or better than the new trains)
  • Good PA (hasn't been used much - no auto announcements)
  • Seats OK - shape of the squab doesn't suit me as well but that's pretty subjective
  • Very laid back trip - slow acceleration and very gentle braking into stations - feels very old-fashioned compared with the newer trains (OK, there are power restrictions, I understand, but we are not in peak). Getting wound up nicely on the up fast, though.
  • Ride OK - a lot more body movement than the Siemens trains on the winding bits on the Portsmouth Direct and a quite uncomfortable high frequency (maybe 2-3Hz) wobble which sounds suspension or bogie related at high speed on the up main. (That was between Woking and about Farnborough which I think is the 100 mph section)
  • Same old doors so the dwell times won't be anything to shout about - can't see that today as there are only about four other passengers in the car
Overall not bad and the punters will think they are one-up on the 450s which I guess was the idea! But definitely feels like a life extension on an oldie.

I’m due for my first trip shortly 1445 Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo. Will update later.
 
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(That was between Woking and about Farnborough which I think is the 100 mph section)
Interested to know how you ended up there if you boarded at Petersfield, or is it a trick to see if we are paying attention? Nice to get first hand thoughts all the same.
 

Shalford

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Having had a day last week where I used a 442 up and down from Guildford to Waterloo including a non-stop service on return via Effingham. Smart refurbish some think they are new trains - seats OK, ride nothing special. I still think they are fundamentally wrong for the Portsmouth Line - they are slow to accelerate (not sure if the re-tractioning solves this issue, and also a power upgrade south of Godalming is urgently needed), and more seriously the entrances are too narrow which will kill dwell times. I noticed a lady couldn't simply get on the train with a Baby Carriage (which have expanded over the years) and had to be helped by staff further down the train delaying despatch.

SWR from Haslemere inwards to London is really a commuter service not a long distance service especially as extra stops have been inserted at Godalming etc - a 450 is the best train for the crush. As SWR with their Bombardier order are after a fleet that is homogenous in terms of performance, for the inner services, to maximise capacity - I would have thought the same held true for the 'mainline services'. SWR would have been better to have argued for one of the Desiro AC fleets becoming available or added extra traction packages to the 707's so they could live with the Bombardiers performance thus keeping Desiro's on the Portsmouth Line.
 

swt_passenger

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... SWR would have been better to have argued for one of the Desiro AC fleets becoming available or added extra traction packages to the 707's so they could live with the Bombardiers performance thus keeping Desiro's on the Portsmouth Line.
AIUI from many earlier discussions, none of the Desiro AC fleets were available when they decided on the 442s. If they were to start all over again it might be different, but the decision was made almost 3 years ago...
 

jfollows

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I still think they are fundamentally wrong for the Portsmouth Line - they are slow to accelerate (not sure if the re-tractioning solves this issue, and also a power upgrade south of Godalming is urgently needed), and more seriously the entrances are too narrow which will kill dwell times.
I think you're right; Petersfield used to be my local station (I suspect Rowland's Castle was the closest station in truth, but still several miles away from where I lived in Clanfield) although I worked in (and drove to) Portsmouth and didn't commute to London; I moved to Bath in 1994 so I only saw the 442s in service on the Southampton line before I moved but I like them a lot and enjoyed travelling on them occasionally in later years on the Portsmouth Direct when I visited old haunts.
 

Bigfoot

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The Sectional Appendix at https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...ators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/ shows 100mph running from Woking (24m 27ch) to before Byfleet and New Haw (20m 60ch). Is this the bit referred to as That was between Woking and about Farnborough which I think is the 100 mph section perhaps?

I've only managed 95 before having to brake for the 90 at the M25 (just before BFN) in a 444/450(standing start from Woking). Some how I doubt a 442 would get there either.
 
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pompeyfan

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9B90 could potentially be doing the ton if it gets greens over Woking junction (unlikely I know!)
 

DerekC

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The Sectional Appendix at https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...ators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/ shows 100mph running from Woking (24m 27ch) to before Byfleet and New Haw (20m 60ch). Is this the bit referred to as That was between Woking and about Farnborough which I think is the 100 mph section perhaps?

Sorry - a bit of mind blank there - that's what comes of doing things in a hurry. Since when was Farnborough between Woking and Waterloo?? Doh!! :rolleyes:. That's what comes of travelling into London from Winchester sometimes. I don't think we were up to 100 by Byfleet and New Haw. Maybe 90 somewhere between there and about Esher. On the way home now but on a trusty old 444!
 

TrainBoy98

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Almost went on one today, had been looking forward to experiencing the Forums' "Solution to All Our Problems" class :D:lol:. But the step-up and narrow doors really put me off. I had my daughter in her pushchair, and honestly didn't want to risk it. I know that staff could've helped, but I don't like the idea that I couldn't board or alight myself. Many other passengers not so encumbered were also struggling to alight and board (Portsmouth and Southsea).

Seems a very silly move, especially as this must increase dwell times by so much.
 

pompeyfan

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Almost went on one today, had been looking forward to experiencing the Forums' "Solution to All Our Problems" class :D:lol:. But the step-up and narrow doors really put me off. I had my daughter in her pushchair, and honestly didn't want to risk it. I know that staff could've helped, but I don't like the idea that I couldn't board or alight myself. Many other passengers not so encumbered were also struggling to alight and board (Portsmouth and Southsea).

Seems a very silly move, especially as this must increase dwell times by so much.

you can blame the dft for specc’ing the franchise wording so tight that basically guaranteed 442s were used again. There’s only so many 2+2 23m 3rd rail capable rolling stock, and all the manufacturers had long lead times (except Siemens ironically!).
 

TrainBoy98

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you can blame the dft for specc’ing the franchise wording so tight that basically guaranteed 442s were used again. There’s only so many 2+2 23m 3rd rail capable rolling stock, and all the manufacturers had long lead times (except Siemens ironically!).

Surely with trying to increase capacity all the time on the SWR network these must only be being thought of as a stop gap? Longer dwell times and passenger difficulty really isn't going to help, especially in the peaks. I'd love to know how these pass the step-up test and pass PRM when other difficult stock doesn't!
 

Bigfoot

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Surely with trying to increase capacity all the time on the SWR network these must only be being thought of as a stop gap? Longer dwell times and passenger difficulty really isn't going to help, especially in the peaks. I'd love to know how these pass the step-up test and pass PRM when other difficult stock doesn't!
They have dispensation for the width of the doors.
 

pompeyfan

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Surely with trying to increase capacity all the time on the SWR network these must only be being thought of as a stop gap? Longer dwell times and passenger difficulty really isn't going to help, especially in the peaks. I'd love to know how these pass the step-up test and pass PRM when other difficult stock doesn't!

not that I have a crystal ball but I can see a bi-mode order being made c.2025 for a fleet to see off the diesels and 442s in one swoop. I half expect to see the desiros live into the following franchise c2032
 

infobleep

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So what delayed the 6:43 Portsmouth to Waterloo service today? It was 14 minutes late leaving Guildford. Was it power issues? Yesterday it was only 3 minutes late leaving Guildford.

I boarded the delayed 17:55 Woking to Portsmouth service laat night, which was a 442. I was in one of the coachee with the aceesiable loo. I have no issues with the journey or interior, save that I felt the chair arm rest was a bit low.
 

pompeyfan

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So what delayed the 6:43 Portsmouth to Waterloo service today? It was 14 minutes late leaving Guildford. Was it power issues? Yesterday it was only 3 minutes late leaving Guildford.

I boarded the delayed 17:55 Woking to Portsmouth service laat night, which was a 442. I was in one of the coachee with the aceesiable loo. I have no issues with the journey or interior, save that I felt the chair arm rest was a bit low.

speaking to the crew it was a combination of poor adhesion, passengers trying to stay sheltered under canopy and not using all available doors, as well as both the guard and driver refamiliarising themselves with the stock... the power reduction obviously doesn’t help either.
 

Dougal2345

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General impression...
What's the aircon noise like, is it a Desiro-level roar? I haven't travelled on a 442 since they were removed from the Weymouth line, but IIRC the aircon wasn't on the ceiling and thus wasn't as noisy as what came later...
 

Goldfish62

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What's the aircon noise like, is it a Desiro-level roar? I haven't travelled on a 442 since they were removed from the Weymouth line, but IIRC the aircon wasn't on the ceiling and thus wasn't as noisy as what came later...
Typical Mark 3, ie underfloor and almost silent.
 

infobleep

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speaking to the crew it was a combination of poor adhesion, passengers trying to stay sheltered under canopy and not using all available doors, as well as both the guard and driver refamiliarising themselves with the stock... the power reduction obviously doesn’t help either.
Thank you for that explication.

Back in the naughties I use to see people run at Fratton to board a 10 car 444 train, when the only parts of the train to line up with the canopy and station building, were those where the doors wouldn't open.

I don't know if they have signage or announcements telling people where they need to be on the platform, for the 442s.
 

Jeremy B

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I had my first trip in one the other day. Impressed......absolutely not. I'm struggling here to understand whats generating such hysteria about them. My only question here is that auto announcer, it seems to run much slower. Is it the same woman as on a 444 slowed down to keep up with whats scrolling on the PIS?
 

Bigfoot

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I had my first trip in one the other day. Impressed......absolutely not. I'm struggling here to understand whats generating such hysteria about them. My only question here is that auto announcer, it seems to run much slower. Is it the same woman as on a 444 slowed down to keep up with whats scrolling on the PIS?
Very much a different system.
 
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