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Stanmore Branch Line

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R848

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Interested to know what plans if any there were for the Stanmore Branch Line between Harrow & Wealdstone to Stanmore Village as far as northward extensions beyond Stanmore Village and any southeastward curve (towards Kenton) are concerned before it was finally closed in 1964 due to the Beeching cuts?
 
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John Webb

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The account of the opening of this branch in Alan Jackson's book "London's Local Railways" (Capital Transport, 2nd Edition, 1999) indicates that there were no plans for any further extension beyond Stanmore. Traffic to Stanmore was always light, and the Metropolitan railway opening to Stanmore in 1932 didn't help. Majority of traffic was to a halt at Belmont generated by housing development.
Sunday trains were cancelled from July 1947 onwards, and Stanmore lost passenger trains permanently from 1952, well before Beeching, the service only running to Belmont. This closed in October 1964, as passenger numbers had dropped due to cheaper bus fares.
 

Andy R. A.

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I have always had a fascination with this Branch, having lived about four miles away from it, but missing the chance of actually travelling over it before it closed.
Looking at the history of the line it is worth perhaps looking at what was actually proposed before it was built. It seems to have always been promoted as a line from Harrow, and there were several Parliamentary Bills put forward with the titles, Edgware, Stanmore and Harrow Railway, Edgware and Harrow Junction Railway, and Ealing, Harrow and Edgware Railway. So it seems that the Branch was originally intended to run from Stanmore to Edgware. (I'm sure I 've read somewhere that an 'end on' connection was envisaged with the GN's Finsbury Park to Edgware line).
One of the original proposals would have seen the line leave Harrow in the same general direction as built, but from near the present Grasmere Gardens the line would head north west, passing the western end of Gordon Avenue, crossing the Uxbridge Road, and then swinging east to a terminus on the north side of the Uxbridge Road at Green Lane. This would have put it in a good position to continue to Edgware GN.
It wasn't to be as the necessary capital couldn't be raised, and the line was eventually built to the shorter alignment to the terminus at Gordon Avenue/Old Church Lane, and no further mention seems to be made of projecting the line towards its original goal of Edgware.

Many years later I was tempted to bring the Stanmore branch back to life in model form (space limitations led to only the junction at Harrow being modelled !).
0149.JPG
 

PeterC

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Due to the post war housing shortage my parents rented a bungalow in Stanmore until 1953. My earliest memory is being taken for a walk by my mother to the station to show me the trains. It must have been just after the station closed to passengers so, as there was no goods train in the yard, we walked home again.
 

Richard P

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I have always had a fascination with this Branch, having lived about four miles away from it, but missing the chance of actually travelling over it before it closed.
Looking at the history of the line it is worth perhaps looking at what was actually proposed before it was built. It seems to have always been promoted as a line from Harrow, and there were several Parliamentary Bills put forward with the titles, Edgware, Stanmore and Harrow Railway, Edgware and Harrow Junction Railway, and Ealing, Harrow and Edgware Railway. So it seems that the Branch was originally intended to run from Stanmore to Edgware. (I'm sure I 've read somewhere that an 'end on' connection was envisaged with the GN's Finsbury Park to Edgware line).
One of the original proposals would have seen the line leave Harrow in the same general direction as built, but from near the present Grasmere Gardens the line would head north west, passing the western end of Gordon Avenue, crossing the Uxbridge Road, and then swinging east to a terminus on the north side of the Uxbridge Road at Green Lane. This would have put it in a good position to continue to Edgware GN.
It wasn't to be as the necessary capital couldn't be raised, and the line was eventually built to the shorter alignment to the terminus at Gordon Avenue/Old Church Lane, and no further mention seems to be made of projecting the line towards its original goal of Edgware.

Many years later I was tempted to bring the Stanmore branch back to life in model form (space limitations led to only the junction at Harrow being modelled !).
View attachment 72704
Fantastic model!
 

R848

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10 Feb 2018
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58
I have always had a fascination with this Branch, having lived about four miles away from it, but missing the chance of actually travelling over it before it closed.
Looking at the history of the line it is worth perhaps looking at what was actually proposed before it was built. It seems to have always been promoted as a line from Harrow, and there were several Parliamentary Bills put forward with the titles, Edgware, Stanmore and Harrow Railway, Edgware and Harrow Junction Railway, and Ealing, Harrow and Edgware Railway. So it seems that the Branch was originally intended to run from Stanmore to Edgware. (I'm sure I 've read somewhere that an 'end on' connection was envisaged with the GN's Finsbury Park to Edgware line).
One of the original proposals would have seen the line leave Harrow in the same general direction as built, but from near the present Grasmere Gardens the line would head north west, passing the western end of Gordon Avenue, crossing the Uxbridge Road, and then swinging east to a terminus on the north side of the Uxbridge Road at Green Lane. This would have put it in a good position to continue to Edgware GN.
It wasn't to be as the necessary capital couldn't be raised, and the line was eventually built to the shorter alignment to the terminus at Gordon Avenue/Old Church Lane, and no further mention seems to be made of projecting the line towards its original goal of Edgware.

Many years later I was tempted to bring the Stanmore branch back to life in model form (space limitations led to only the junction at Harrow being modelled !).
View attachment 72704

Thanks for the information and historical context.

In other words had things gone as planned the GN's Finsbury Park to Edgware line would have continued from Edgware (aka Edgware LNER) to terminate at Harrow (aka Harrow & Wealdstone) via the alternate Stanmore Branch Line proposal?

Was previously of the impression the route to today's Stanmore Village from Belmont could have been utilized in some form by the Bakerloo Line (after the former Metropolitan/Bakerloo route to Stanmore was transferred to the Jubilee Line) as a way of further separating it from the Watford DC Line, especially if Kenton and Northwick Park were resited and merged into one station (with the separation of the Bakerloo and Watford DC Lines beginning after South Kenton).
 

Andy R. A.

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In other words had things gone as planned the GN's Finsbury Park to Edgware line would have continued from Edgware (aka Edgware LNER) to terminate at Harrow (aka Harrow & Wealdstone) via the alternate Stanmore Branch Line proposal?

I would expect that if the two lines had met at Edgware the line would've probably have operated with the services both terminating at Edgware, similar to the arrangement that existed at St. Albans Abbey with the two branches from Watford and Hatfield, although the position at Edgware would've probably been a through station instead of a terminus. It is possible that freight services might have operated through Edgware, but we will never know now.

Was previously of the impression the route to today's Stanmore Village from Belmont could have been utilized in some form by the Bakerloo Line (after the former Metropolitan/Bakerloo route to Stanmore was transferred to the Jubilee Line) as a way of further separating it from the Watford DC Line, especially if Kenton and Northwick Park were resited and merged into one station (with the separation of the Bakerloo and Watford DC Lines beginning after South Kenton).

It is an interesting idea, but the location of the Stanmore Village branch at Harrow, being on the opposite side of the Main Line from the electrified 'New Lines', always put the Branch at a disadvantage without the need of an expensive flyover or underpass to get access to it. As John Webb mentioned in his post after the Metropolitan opened its own line to Stanmore the 'Village' Branch started its long decline, although it took 20 years for it to finally close its doors to passengers at Stanmore. It was interesting that Belmont didn't have a station until about the same time as the Metropolitan opened its line to Stanmore. When you look at all the schemes, like 'The Northern Heights', which were abandoned after the Second World War, upgrading the 'Village' route to Stanmore might've been seen as a somewhat extravagant duplication. Even the small bit of existing line from Mill Hill East to Edgware, which might've proved a useful link in the Northern Line, was quietly consigned to history's dustbin....
 

mr_jrt

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Had the LNWR line made it to Edgware GNR I wonder if both would have survived due to the useful rail-accessible connections (could have had a nice passenger interchange with the Met's Stanmore branch at Canon's Park, too). Ultimately connections didn't save the GNR line with it's interchange to the Midland at Mill Hill, but I don't think there was a rail connection, so maybe that would have been a factor. NW London has always suffered from lacking good orbital rail lines - buses don't really cut it. All the missed opportunities still make me sad. IIRC, the Met loosely mooted extending their Stanmore branch to Borehamwood too.
 

John Webb

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….. Ultimately connections didn't save the GNR line with it's interchange to the Midland at Mill Hill, but I don't think there was a rail connection, so maybe that would have been a factor [1]...... IIRC, the Met loosely mooted extending their Stanmore branch to Borehamwood too.[2]
[1] There was no rail connection between the Midland Main Line and the GN Branch - there was about a 20ft difference in levels. See http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m/mill_hill_hale/index.shtml for photos and history of the GN station.
[2] There were numerous proposals over the years including extending the GN line through Pinner, Harefield and Chalfont St Giles to reach High Wycombe, as well as linking to the LNWR line at Watford from Edgeware. The early C20 saw proposals by the Charing Cross, Euston and Hampstead Railway - later to become part of the N orthern tube line - to again link from their terminus at Edgeware to Watford. Middlesex County Council tried also to extend existing tram lines from Cricklewood to Edgeware. Things appear to have got rather complex, partly due to the 1923 Railway Grouping, the time limitations on acquiring land in various acts and eventually the formation of the LTPB in 1933. There were first proposals to extend from Edgeware to Bullbaiter's Farm in Borehamwood, which was being marked as an area of rapid development.
In 1934 the LPTB also looked at extending the Met line from Stanmore to Aldenham and possibly on to Borehamwood, which threw the extension from Edgeware into some doubt!
Eventually they came up with the idea of extending the Edgeware tube line to Aldenham and sought Parliament's permission in 1937, which was eventually given. Works started, and were brought to a halt by WW2 in 1939. Aldenham depot was converted to service and build aircraft. The extension plans were dropped after WW2, and Aldenham became the main Bus repair depot for London Transport.
All the information about the railways in this area can be found in "By Tube Beyond Edgeware" by Tony Beard (Capital Transport Publishing, 2002, ISBN 185414 246 1) which I warmly recommend to anyone studying these railways.
 

Andy R. A.

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[1] There was no rail connection between the Midland Main Line and the GN Branch - there was about a 20ft difference in levels.

There are some nice drawings of the proposed interchange station at Mill Hill with a combined Main Line/Underground station building in the book 'The First Tube' by Mike Horne and Bob Bayman. Published by Capital Transport ISBN 185414 128 7. The interchange would've been on the west side of the Midland Main Line in the angle with the GN Line. The proposed drawings don't take into account the entrance on the east side connected by Subway as the M1 extension wasn't even in the planning stages at that time, but would've probably resulted in the rather dreary entrance under the Motorway as it is now.

My memory of the former GN line is pretty good, was around to see its last years of Freight working with both steam and Diesel. One remnant survives after I saved it from being burnt with the old Goods Yard gates in Flower Lane when they were building the M1. MHTH Sign.JPG
 

R848

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I would expect that if the two lines had met at Edgware the line would've probably have operated with the services both terminating at Edgware, similar to the arrangement that existed at St. Albans Abbey with the two branches from Watford and Hatfield, although the position at Edgware would've probably been a through station instead of a terminus. It is possible that freight services might have operated through Edgware, but we will never know now.

I see, it sounds it could have prolonged the life of the Stanmore Branch Line as a decent NW London orbital extension route for the GN (or Northern Line) had events unfolded differently.

It is an interesting idea, but the location of the Stanmore Village branch at Harrow, being on the opposite side of the Main Line from the electrified 'New Lines', always put the Branch at a disadvantage without the need of an expensive flyover or underpass to get access to it. As John Webb mentioned in his post after the Metropolitan opened its own line to Stanmore the 'Village' Branch started its long decline, although it took 20 years for it to finally close its doors to passengers at Stanmore. It was interesting that Belmont didn't have a station until about the same time as the Metropolitan opened its line to Stanmore. When you look at all the schemes, like 'The Northern Heights', which were abandoned after the Second World War, upgrading the 'Village' route to Stanmore might've been seen as a somewhat extravagant duplication. Even the small bit of existing line from Mill Hill East to Edgware, which might've proved a useful link in the Northern Line, was quietly consigned to history's dustbin....

Duplication would be potential concern for a Bakerloo route to Stanmore Village depending on where it is extended from thereon in relation to the other nearby routes (and their extension proposals), the only other alternative for separating the Bakerloo from the Watford DC would appear to be some form of the 1908 proposal to Cricklewood that diverges from Maida Vale instead of Edgware Road.

[1] There was no rail connection between the Midland Main Line and the GN Branch - there was about a 20ft difference in levels. See http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m/mill_hill_hale/index.shtml for photos and history of the GN station.
[2] There were numerous proposals over the years including extending the GN line through Pinner, Harefield and Chalfont St Giles to reach High Wycombe, as well as linking to the LNWR line at Watford from Edgeware. The early C20 saw proposals by the Charing Cross, Euston and Hampstead Railway - later to become part of the N orthern tube line - to again link from their terminus at Edgeware to Watford. Middlesex County Council tried also to extend existing tram lines from Cricklewood to Edgeware. Things appear to have got rather complex, partly due to the 1923 Railway Grouping, the time limitations on acquiring land in various acts and eventually the formation of the LTPB in 1933. There were first proposals to extend from Edgeware to Bullbaiter's Farm in Borehamwood, which was being marked as an area of rapid development.
In 1934 the LPTB also looked at extending the Met line from Stanmore to Aldenham and possibly on to Borehamwood, which threw the extension from Edgeware into some doubt!
Eventually they came up with the idea of extending the Edgeware tube line to Aldenham and sought Parliament's permission in 1937, which was eventually given. Works started, and were brought to a halt by WW2 in 1939. Aldenham depot was converted to service and build aircraft. The extension plans were dropped after WW2, and Aldenham became the main Bus repair depot for London Transport.
All the information about the railways in this area can be found in "By Tube Beyond Edgeware" by Tony Beard (Capital Transport Publishing, 2002, ISBN 185414 246 1) which I warmly recommend to anyone studying these railways.

Thought the GN Route from Edgware to High Wycombe was supposed to utilize the Watford and Rickmansworth Railway towards Rickmansworth Church Street by way of the Watford & Edgeware Railway before traveling to Harefield, Chalfont St Giles and Beaconsfield? Or was the route from Edgware to High Wycombe via Pinner, Harefield and Chalfont St Giles an altogether different variant scheme, curious how they planned to run the route from Edgware to Pinner?

Find it unusual in the case of the Edgware to Watford routes that none of the proposed through stations appear to have direct stops / interchanges at Bushey, Watford High Street and (aside for one instance as a terminus) Watford Junction.

Also find it curious had circumstances turned out differently how parts of the GN route could have potentially become part of the Metropolitan Line via the unbuilt Swiss Cottage to Hampstead (towards Highgate – even Alexandra Palace) and Liverpool Street to Old Street via Finsbury Circus (towards Edgware via Finsbury Park) schemes or in the case of the above route even linking the route from Edgware back to Pinner, not to mention another scheme for a route from Edgware to a station on the eastern side of Watford High Street close to the site of Metropolitan's own proposed stop at Watford Central via one of the Watford & Edgware Railway proposals (leading to the prospect of some sort of Watford loop). Either way the CCE&HR might eventually have to find an alternative northward extension from Archway in this scenario in place of Highgate.

Obviously such events never came to be for various reasons nevertheless, it is interesting extrapolating how things could have evolved based on what was historically proposed.

Speaking of the Watford & Edgware Railway, it is know whereabouts the stops at Caldecott Hill, Old Bushey, and Heathbourne Road were to be located in relation to similar schemes up to the Northern Heights plan?
 

R848

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Had the LNWR line made it to Edgware GNR I wonder if both would have survived due to the useful rail-accessible connections (could have had a nice passenger interchange with the Met's Stanmore branch at Canon's Park, too). Ultimately connections didn't save the GNR line with it's interchange to the Midland at Mill Hill, but I don't think there was a rail connection, so maybe that would have been a factor. NW London has always suffered from lacking good orbital rail lines - buses don't really cut it. All the missed opportunities still make me sad. IIRC, the Met loosely mooted extending their Stanmore branch to Borehamwood too.

Would have to agree on the lack of good orbital rail lines in NW London along with arguably other parts in general.
 

Monarch010

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The January 2015 edition of Backtrack magazine had an article about the Stanmore branch by Michael J Smith.
Back issues are available from the Pendragon website.
 
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