Train Driver Jobs: Internal or external recruitment

Ferret · 13 Jan 2020

43066 said:
I’ve explained time and again why I believe XC’s approach is wrong. Here I go again!

If they’re looking to appoint the best candidates for the job, they’re missing a trick by only looking within the industry.

I joined the railway industry, along with many others, directly as a trainee driver. We have all performed the role to a high standard. In my years of doing the job I’ve seen some truly shocking “internal” candidates enter the grade, perform terribly, and be swiftly removed from it.

I’ve been informed by managers and trainers that they actively prefer external candidates for the driving grade because they aren’t institutionalised, they’re a “blank canvas” and they frequently go on to perform better in the role.

That doesn’t mean that there aren’t some internal candidates who would make excellent drivers.

My point is simply this: if you want the best candidates for a job, you should pitch the vacancy to the widest possible audience. That’s where XC have gone wrong by restricting the audience to those working within the industry.

They want 14 people, I think it is - they can easily find 14 suitable candidates from within. There will be more recruitment next year and the year after that and so on. They are new to recruiting unqualified trainees, and they feel they’ll find it easier to train from within, so that’s what they are doing - it’s that simple. Add to that; CrossCountry has been haemorrhaging staff of different grades to other businesses, experienced staff at that. You may not like what has been done, but it’s being done out of necessity. You’ve just got the blinkers on, looking at it from your own experience from within your grade at your employers, without even trying to understand what has happened elsewhere; which you’ll hopefully be the first to accept you know nothing about! I don’t know this for sure, but I suspect they lack the resources to actually deal with the inevitable 15000 applications from the ‘huge-salary but don’t give a fig about the job brigade’ they’d get if they did open this up to the entire world right now too, which would also be a consideration.

We’ve all seen people have incidents; I’ve seen both inexperienced non-railway background folk and experienced people drop clangers. To err is to be human after all. I don’t know that anyone has ever done any studies into likelihoods of incidents so both sides of that debate are going on limited and inconclusive evidence there.

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43066 · 13 Jan 2020

Ferret said:
They are new to recruiting unqualified trainees, and they feel they’ll find it easier to train from within, so that’s what they are doing - it’s that simple.

That’s the bit I’m afraid I will never agree with.

They are recruiting externally for trainee drivers but, at the same time, they’re choosing to restrict that recruitment to those already working within the industry. In unrelated jobs!

I’m aware of the reasons why they’ve struggled to attract qualified drivers of late - perhaps that’s what they should address.

Ferret said:
I don’t know this for sure, but I suspect they lack the resources to actually deal with the inevitable 15000 applications from the ‘huge-salary but don’t give a fig about the job brigade’ they’d get if they did open this up to the entire world right now too, which would also be a consideration.

Plenty of people within the railway industry are completely obsessed with drivers’ wages and don’t give a fig about the job itself. These people generally have little to no understanding of actually doing the job.

I do understand the need to limit numbers, but surely there’s a better way to do it, that can include external candidates?!

Ferret said:
We’ve all seen people have incidents; I’ve seen both inexperienced non-railway background folk and experienced people drop clangers. To err is to be human after all. I don’t know that anyone has ever done any studies into likelihoods of incidents so both sides of that debate are going on limited and inconclusive evidence there.

I generally agree with you here.

All I’m saying is that the net should be cast as widely as possible...

Ferret · 13 Jan 2020

43066 said:
That’s the bit I’m afraid I will never agree with.

They are recruiting externally for trainee drivers but, at the same time, they’re choosing to restrict that recruitment to those already working within the industry. In unrelated jobs!

I’m aware of the reasons why they’ve struggled to attract qualified drivers of late - perhaps that’s what they should address.

Plenty of people within the railway industry are completely obsessed with drivers’ wages and don’t give a fig about the job itself. These people generally have little to no understanding of actually doing the job.

I do understand the need to limit numbers, but surely there’s a better way to do it, that can include external candidates?!

I generally agree with you here.

All I’m saying is that the net should be cast as widely as possible...

I know some that have gone from Guard to Driver, there are some similarities in terms of rules/regs knowledge, and they found it advantageous during the course. I also know of a driver who came from outside who says he found it hard to complete the course, compared with those who had come from inside the industry. Again, small sample size of anecdotal evidence. You’re hammering XC though, when it is completely new to them, and I’m not really sure that’s fair criticism.

As for attracting qualified drivers, XC T&Cs are not as attractive as other TOCs. It is believed that is a massive factor, in addition to the initial drop in salary you spoke of before.

Like I say, I think the net will be cast wider in time. But for now, it is as it is for many practical reasons. Whingeing on here is not gonna change it

43066 · 13 Jan 2020

Ferret said:
Whingeing on here is not gonna change it

Now that’s something we can certainly agree on!

Ferret · 13 Jan 2020

43066 said:
Now that’s something we can certainly agree on!

LOL!

I wish all who are eligible to apply the very best with it all. I think out of necessity, it’ll become open to all in the next few years, so don’t despair if you aren’t eligible this time. Remember, only a tiny percentage pass the psychometric tests so it’ll not be long before the potential candidates inside the industry will have been whittled down.

CloudDriver · 13 Jan 2020

I see XC point, however I also recognise the argument to recruit people with no Railway Experience.

Asking for 'Railway Experience' - what does this even mean, it could mean anything from the Ticket desk to a Conductor to the Platform Cleaner?
Some positions will be advantageous when training to be a Train Driver, some wont.
The same could be argued for recruiting outside the Railway- a person who has a transferable skillset would obviously be more suited to the role than those without beneficial skills.

At the end of the day, its simply another way to reduce the high number of applications.

Stigy · 13 Jan 2020

CloudDriver said:
I see XC point, however I also recognise the argument to recruit people with no Railway Experience.

Asking for 'Railway Experience' - what does this even mean, it could mean anything from the Ticket desk to a Conductor to the Platform Cleaner?
Some positions will be advantageous when training to be a Train Driver, some wont.
The same could be argued for recruiting outside the Railway- a person who has a transferable skillset would obviously be more suited to the role than those without beneficial skills.

At the end of the day, its simply another way to reduce the high number of applications.

Agreed, which I was trying to put across earlier in the thread (fell on deaf ears I think...). XC do specifically say “operational” experience, however that’s a bit ambiguous to be honest.

Ferret · 13 Jan 2020

Stigy said:
Agreed, which I was trying to put across earlier in the thread (fell on deaf ears I think...). XC do specifically say “operational” experience, however that’s a bit ambiguous to be honest.

There’s been a fair amount of discussion on this away from this board. I took it to mean rules-trained which would rule out catering grades for a start. Other interpretations are available! As you say, it’s rather ambiguous....!

387star · 14 Jan 2020

Ferret said:
LOL!

I wish all who are eligible to apply the very best with it all. I think out of necessity, it’ll become open to all in the next few years, so don’t despair if you aren’t eligible this time. Remember, only a tiny percentage pass the psychometric tests so it’ll not be long before the potential candidates inside the industry will have been whittled down.

That still the case ? Almost everyone seems to pass them

Paddy67 · 14 Jan 2020

387star said:
Some externals might be more arrogant
One trainee I remember said I don't give a **** about guards during the southern dispute whilst another said it had nothing to do with them and the Guards wouldn't care if we lost our jobs so why should we help them

Anyway OT

Yup precisely. They have more of a tendency to be purely out for the money and screw everyone else. Things like guards and DOO but even when it comes to pay deals signing away rights just for an extra few quid at a 40% tax rate. That is why companies like hiring them though easy to water down rights and rates hard fought for by the 'BR dinosaurs'.

Also XC are only after one employee per depot here on average so hardly huge numbers so can easily find talented people within the railway. Your typical external fodder are police/armed forces and bus/tram and truck drivers with a smattering of odds and ends from other industries who will all parrot safety concentration examples. So hardly anything vastly different to a guard or shunter except they already have a railway grounding. We are not talking about attracting people with double firsts from Oxbridge here who used to be head of European operations for royal Dutch shell.

Stigy · 14 Jan 2020

Paddy67 said:
Yup precisely. They have more of a tendency to be purely out for the money and screw everyone else. Things like guards and DOO but even when it comes to pay deals signing away rights just for an extra few quid at a 40% tax rate. That is why companies like hiring them though easy to water down rights and rates hard fought for by the 'BR dinosaurs'.

Also XC are only after one employee per depot here on average so hardly huge numbers so can easily find talented people within the railway. Your typical external fodder are police/armed forces and bus/tram and truck drivers with a smattering of odds and ends from other industries who will all parrot safety concentration examples. So hardly anything vastly different to a guard or shunter except they already have a railway grounding. We are not talking about attracting people with double firsts from Oxbridge here who used to be head of European operations for royal Dutch shell.

I’ll ask again then; Irrespective of this particular advert, what constitutes railway experience? Surely just somebody who’s been in a railway job for years and is not a Guard/Shunter/Depot Driver etc is just the same as the usual external ‘fodder’?

Paddy67 · 14 Jan 2020

Stigy said:
I’ll ask again then; Irrespective of this particular advert, what constitutes railway experience? Surely just somebody who’s been in a railway job for years and is not a Guard/Shunter/Depot Driver etc is just the same as the usual external ‘fodder’?

It says operational railway experience which in my TOC is known to mean safety critical work therefore Guard, Shunter and Dispatcher. Any TOCs I've come across the vast majority of internals are from these jobs with the bulk being guards. It is seen as a natural progression and similar to the old 2nd man route into driving.

toot toot · 14 Jan 2020

What was your route into driving Paddy?

Ferret · 14 Jan 2020

387star said:
That still the case ? Almost everyone seems to pass them

Ummm, quite a few of my friends have failed them recently, which is kinda awkward, especially when some of those are fail number 2.

A HR’y person I converse with now and then told me it’s about a 17% pass rate....

Ferret · 14 Jan 2020

Stigy said:
I’ll ask again then; Irrespective of this particular advert, what constitutes railway experience? Surely just somebody who’s been in a railway job for years and is not a Guard/Shunter/Depot Driver etc is just the same as the usual external ‘fodder’?

On the last course was a guy out of Control. Of course, he is rules trained so I presume that classed as ‘operational experience’? It’s so bloody ambiguous, I can’t wait to see how it is actually interpreted!

Stigy · 14 Jan 2020

Paddy67 said:
It says operational railway experience which in my TOC is known to mean safety critical work therefore Guard, Shunter and Dispatcher. Any TOCs I've come across the vast majority of internals are from these jobs with the bulk being guards. It is seen as a natural progression and similar to the old 2nd man route into driving.

That’s why I said irrespective of this particular advert. Should railway employees have to be a Guard/Shunter etc etc in your opinion before being a driver? Surely anybody else might just as well be from the outside?

Paddy67 · 14 Jan 2020

Stigy said:
That’s why I said irrespective of this particular advert. Should railway employees have to be a Guard/Shunter etc etc in your opinion before being a driver? Surely anybody else might just as well be from the outside?

In my opinion yes they should be these roles before hand and that is the general consensus within the railway from my experience. People that work in the railway know that it is wise to get a job like that to then move into driving after all it makes sense. You are correct that the people they tend to chose from outside the railway have a set style of transferable skills and experience that would be more favourable than a non safety critical job within the railway.

CloudDriver · 15 Jan 2020

Paddy67 said:
In my opinion yes they should be these roles before hand and that is the general consensus within the railway from my experience. People that work in the railway know that it is wise to get a job like that to then move into driving after all it makes sense. You are correct that the people they tend to chose from outside the railway have a set style of transferable skills and experience that would be more favourable than a non safety critical job within the railway.

Perhaps that's why a few companies have gone down the path of a 'Junior Driver' role, to fill this void of prior Rail experience.

Stigy · 16 Jan 2020

CloudDriver said:
Perhaps that's why a few companies have gone down the path of a 'Junior Driver' role, to fill this void of prior Rail experience.

I’ve only known DB Cargo to do this, is there more? Maybe you’re right in that respect with XC being a DB company and all that?

43066 · 16 Jan 2020

Paddy67 said:
Your typical external fodder are police/armed forces and bus/tram and truck drivers with a smattering of odds and ends from other industries who will all parrot safety concentration examples. So hardly anything vastly different to a guard or shunter except they already have a railway grounding. We are not talking about attracting people with double firsts from Oxbridge here who used to be head of European operations for royal Dutch shell

Plenty of people from a range of jobs and professions and a wide variety of academic qualifications in the driving grade. As a driver I’ve worked with an ex commercial pilot, an ex quantity surveyor and an ex industrial chemist, amongst others.

But again, why the focus on academic qualifications? They have little relevance to the job!

Paddy67 said:
In my opinion yes they should be these roles before hand and that is the general consensus within the railway from my experience.

Certainly not the consensus on the parts of the railway I’ve worked on - including amongst driver trainers, colleagues and management.

Paddy67 said:
People that work in the railway know that it is wise to get a job like that to then move into driving after all it makes sense.

Not the case. It didn’t make sense for me to be a guard, or any other railway job first. I only wanted to be a driver.

No problem with other grades applying to become drivers if they wish - and of course they have industry experience, access to internal vacancies etc. Many are successful and go on to make excellent drivers.

But personally, rather than a “closed shop”, I’d rather work with a range of people from different backgrounds and walks of life, all of whom are there because they can demonstrate the skills to do the job.

As I alluded to above, in my experience, people who come to the job from other industries moan less and are more appreciative than those who have been “man and boy” on the railway.

MRIGuy said:
Good luck all who applied

Seconded! By all accounts XC are an excellent TOC to work for.

CloudDriver · 16 Jan 2020

Most companies advertise these roles internally anyway, I would say that covers the 'Railway Experience' candidates. There is really no reason to demand 'Railway Experience' on an external advert other than to reduce the number of applications. (Certainly, add it as desirable experience but don't make it a requirement).
If companies go down this route then the role will be made even more difficult to achieve, ruling allot of good candidates out!

On a further note, similar Saftey Critical sectors don't demand it and do fine, there is no need to be Cabin Crew to become a Pilot, Air Traffic Control are recruited externally from a wide range of people etc etc.

Good Luck.

Paddy67 · 16 Jan 2020

43066 said:
Plenty of people from a range of jobs and professions and a wide variety of academic qualifications in the driving grade. As a driver I’ve worked with an ex commercial pilot, an ex quantity surveyor and an ex industrial chemist, amongst others.

But again, why the focus on academic qualifications? They have little relevance to the job!

Certainly not the consensus on the parts of the railway I’ve worked on - including amongst driver trainers, colleagues and management.

Not the case. It didn’t make sense for me to be a guard, or any other railway job first. I only wanted to be a driver.

No problem with other grades applying to become drivers if they wish - and of course they have industry experience, access to internal vacancies etc. Many are successful and go on to make excellent drivers.

But personally, rather than a “closed shop”, I’d rather work with a range of people from different backgrounds and walks of life, all of whom are there because they can demonstrate the skills to do the job.

As I alluded to above, in my experience, people who come to the job from other industries moan less and are more appreciative than those who have been “man and boy” on the railway.

Seconded! By all accounts XC are an excellent TOC to work for.

Always great to start off with a false analogy! Just because you know a train driver that used to be an airline pilot does not make that the norm! Hence why I said ''General fodder'' as these are the most representative groups you will find driving trains across all TOCs that joined externally. Your gigantic brain obviously missed the blatant sarcasm of the statement regarding Oxbridge. You do not have to be super human to drive a train. Anybody of average ability with the right attitude can drive a train that is why 1000s apply for the role as there is a low bar to entry. The elites of society are not interested in driving trains funnily enough. That is why your claim of missing out on talent by it being internal is so ludicrous. XC are only after a minuscule amount of trainees here and there are more than 14 individuals within the entire railway network talented enough to drive a train it is not rocket science!

You were obviously to busy drinking coffee on autopilot whizzing past greens to notice that I was referring to people already in the railway. It is a fact that a shunter, guard or dispatcher is better and viewed better in the selection process than for example somebody that works in the booking office that is why management tell such people in feedback to get operational experience before applying again. Quite frankly I wouldn't trust you to drive at 5mph in the depot let alone 125 on greens given you missed the detail of that.

If it wan't for the ''man and boy BR dinosaurs moaning'' you would never have joined in the first place as the rates and conditions of the job would be even worse than that of a guard, a role that is already beneath you! It just goes to show your arrogant attitude towards the people who have created the job you enjoy! You are a shining example if anyone wanted one for making it a closed shop!

There are a great many TOCs that exclusively or almost exclusively only train from scratch internal candidates. You will see threads on here about East Midlands Trains depot drivers as that is how that TOC want people to join before going mainline. The top 2 TOCs in the business LNER and Virgin now Avanti West Coast only recruit internally for trainees apart from recently a once in a generation recruitment. And even then West Coast wanted you to do a years apprenticeship shadowing guards dispatchers etc as they saw that experience being vital to making a good driver. These companies are far better qualified to make such judgements than you!

It is not realistic for there to be a ''closed shop'' across the industry given the 1000s of driver positions there are. The bottom rung TOCs take on a massive amount of externals. My original point was that it is just very nice to see XC give a chance to people that have already committed themselves to the railway over many years be rewarded with the chance of one of the top jobs in the industry. To deny these people that opportunity would require a heart of stone.

Stigy · 16 Jan 2020

Paddy67 said:
It is a fact that a shunter, guard or dispatcher is better and viewed better in the selection process than for example somebody that works in the booking office.....yadda yadda yadda

No it isn’t.

I do wish you’d stop quoting what your mate’s, Mum’s Uncle has told you as “fact”. If you’re going to state facts, back them up with actual real life evidence at least.

If it was a “fact” that they fared better in the selection process than somebody who worked in the booking office or other post, there surely wouldn’t be half as many former booking office, revenue protection, security or office staff being recruited as Trainee Drivers.

I agree that it’s nice to have operational experience when being recruited as a trainee driver, but a person’s aptitude, ability to follow rules and ability to learn at a reasonable pace is far more beneficial.

Paddy67 · 16 Jan 2020

Stigy said:
No it isn’t.

I do wish you’d stop quoting what your mate’s, Mum’s Uncle has told you as “fact”. If you’re going to state facts, back them up with actual real life evidence at least.

If it was a “fact” that they fared better in the selection process than somebody who worked in the booking office or other post, there surely wouldn’t be half as many former booking office, revenue protection, security or office staff being recruited as Trainee Drivers.

I agree that it’s nice to have operational experience when being recruited as a trainee driver, but a person’s aptitude, ability to follow rules and ability to learn at a reasonable pace is far more beneficial.

hahahaha I love how you think the majority of internals out there aren't from operational roles again as a train driver myself who has been around the industry for a long time and knows many people in other TOCs than my own what you say just isn't reflective of reality! I have never come across anyone in my own TOC who has went straight from booking office or security to Driver it just does not happen! You might get the odd one in some random other TOC but it would be the exception!

Stigy · 16 Jan 2020

Paddy67 said:
hahahaha I love how you think the majority of internals out there aren't from operational roles again as a train driver myself who has been around the industry for a long time and knows many people in other TOCs than my own what you say just isn't reflective of reality! I have never come across anyone in my own TOC who has went straight from booking office or security to Driver it just does not happen! You might get the odd one in some random other TOC but it would be the exception!

I haven’t said the “majority” of internals are from non-operational roles. You’re hearing what you want to hear. Maybe before questioning others’ ability and suitability for being a train driver, you should assess your own attitude.

Once again you’re inferring facts, when in reality, it’s mess room talk.

CloudDriver · 16 Jan 2020

Paddy67 said:
Always great to start off with a false analogy! Just because you know a train driver that used to be an airline pilot does not make that the norm! Hence why I said ''General fodder'' as these are the most representative groups you will find driving trains across all TOCs that joined externally. Your gigantic brain obviously missed the blatant sarcasm of the statement regarding Oxbridge. You do not have to be super human to drive a train. Anybody of average ability with the right attitude can drive a train that is why 1000s apply for the role as there is a low bar to entry. The elites of society are not interested in driving trains funnily enough. That is why your claim of missing out on talent by it being internal is so ludicrous. XC are only after a minuscule amount of trainees here and there are more than 14 individuals within the entire railway network talented enough to drive a train it is not rocket science!

You were obviously to busy drinking coffee on autopilot whizzing past greens to notice that I was referring to people already in the railway. It is a fact that a shunter, guard or dispatcher is better and viewed better in the selection process than for example somebody that works in the booking office that is why management tell such people in feedback to get operational experience before applying again. Quite frankly I wouldn't trust you to drive at 5mph in the depot let alone 125 on greens given you missed the detail of that.

If it wan't for the ''man and boy BR dinosaurs moaning'' you would never have joined in the first place as the rates and conditions of the job would be even worse than that of a guard, a role that is already beneath you! It just goes to show your arrogant attitude towards the people who have created the job you enjoy! You are a shining example if anyone wanted one for making it a closed shop!

There are a great many TOCs that exclusively or almost exclusively only train from scratch internal candidates. You will see threads on here about East Midlands Trains depot drivers as that is how that TOC want people to join before going mainline. The top 2 TOCs in the business LNER and Virgin now Avanti West Coast only recruit internally for trainees apart from recently a once in a generation recruitment. And even then West Coast wanted you to do a years apprenticeship shadowing guards dispatchers etc as they saw that experience being vital to making a good driver. These companies are far better qualified to make such judgements than you!

It is not realistic for there to be a ''closed shop'' across the industry given the 1000s of driver positions there are. The bottom rung TOCs take on a massive amount of externals. My original point was that it is just very nice to see XC give a chance to people that have already committed themselves to the railway over many years be rewarded with the chance of one of the top jobs in the industry. To deny these people that opportunity would require a heart of stone.

Just a comment on the view that 'elites' do not want to Drive Trains; I take elites to mean further educated people or people in a skilled position- this may have been the case in the past however given the increasing publicity and attention brought to the role & furthermore the slump in terms and conditions of other similar positions, a Train Driver is now a very desirable position for all walks of life.
An example given here is an Airline Pilot- an Airline Pilot is no longer the elite role it once was, terms and conditions have somewhat deteriorated as well as pay. Considering you are expected to fund your own training with no guaranteed job, all make the role of Train Driver an alternative career path, with similar salary (if not more than Airline) the person looking at these two jobs may well find it the more attractive option.
This also applies to Rail Maintenance Roles; these all now pay more and have better t&c than the Airline equivalent. In fact from the Ticket Desk to the Cleaners, the Rail industry is now a far superior option.

Paddy67 · 16 Jan 2020

CloudDriver said:
Just a comment on the view that 'elites' do not want to Drive Trains; I take elites to mean further educated people or people in a skilled position- this may have been the case in the past however given the increasing publicity and attention brought to the role & furthermore the slump in terms and conditions of other similar positions, a Train Driver is now a very desirable position for all walks of life.
An example given here is an Airline Pilot- an Airline Pilot is no longer the elite role it once was, terms and conditions have somewhat deteriorated as well as pay. Considering you are expected to fund your own training with no guaranteed job, all make the role of Train Driver an alternative career path, with similar salary (if not more than Airline) the person looking at these two jobs may well find it the more attractive option.
This also applies to Rail Maintenance Roles; these all now pay more and have better t&c than the Airline equivalent. In fact from the Ticket Desk to the Cleaners, the Rail industry is now a far superior option.

I was just being a bit dramatic for effect when saying elites meaning brain surgeons or any super talented job you can think not just someone who has been to further education. Just really to make the point that there is already plenty talent within the railway as we aren't looking for quantum physicists here.

I am getting very bored of this back and forth now not really with you btw. This thread should be left to the people who have applied for this wonderful opportunity to discuss how they are getting on and help each other. I doubt they want to hear folk bore on anymore about external v internal.

CloudDriver · 16 Jan 2020

Agreed, just making an observation really as it reminded me of a point I was discussing recently regarding the heightened interest in the role from other similar sectors.

43066 · 18 Jan 2020

Paddy67 said:
Always great to start off with a false analogy! Just because you know a train driver that used to be an airline pilot does not make that the norm!

There are a wide range of people now doing the job, many of whom will be better at it than people who joined up as box boys in the 1970s.

The fact is that T’s and C’s during the 70s and 80s were so terrible that people only joined the railway if they couldn’t do anything else. It was way before my time but I’ve been told that by enough ex BR men to know that it’s true.

Nowadays the salary and T’s and C’s for drivers compare favourably with many other industries, far more is expected of drivers, and the role has been professionalised to a large extent. That’s a good thing, in my view.

Paddy67 said:
Your gigantic brain obviously missed the blatant sarcasm of the statement regarding Oxbridge. You do not have to be super human to drive a train. Anybody of average ability with the right attitude can drive a train that is why 1000s apply for the role as there is a low bar to entry.

You don’t have to be superhuman to get into Oxbridge either.

I disagree that anyone of average ability can drive a train - I also don’t know a single person in the grade who would agree with that view. Plenty of people fail the selection and many of those who get a key end up making mistakes left right and centre.

Do your own job down if you wish, but don’t do mine down. I can assure you there’s plenty of skill involved in what I do, thanks very much!

Anyone who questions the skill involved in driving 125mph trains on greens has quite clearly never done it. Driving at 5mph in the shed is a fundamentally different job, and shed drivers often struggle to transition to the mainline.

Paddy67 said:
My original point was that it is just very nice to see XC give a chance to people that have already committed themselves to the railway over many years be rewarded with the chance of one of the top jobs in the industry. To deny these people that opportunity would require a heart of stone.

Nobody has said those people shouldn’t be given a chance. All I’ve said is that that by opening up to externals from other industries a wider pool of applicants would be available. There would be nothing to stop railway people applying, along with everyone else. So long as they demonstrated that they were best candidates, they would get the job. What are they so afraid of?!

A job shouldn’t ever be given to somebody as a reward for “commitment to the industry”, whatever that means. Jobs should be given to those who can best demonstrate the skills required. That’s just the way things are in the real world - the railway shouldn’t be any different.

Stigy · 18 Jan 2020

43066 said:
Anyone who questions the skill involved in driving 125mph trains on greens has quite clearly never done it. Driving at 5mph in the shed is a fundamentally different job, and shed drivers often struggle to transition to the mainline.

Driving in a shed indeed is very different....I guess it should be noted though that depot driving is often more technical too and with increased likelihood of incident. 5mph or 125mph, a SPAD is a SPAD.

Train Driver Jobs: Internal or external recruitment

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