Goldfish62
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It retains the Southern-installed PIS. Not sure from memory what who the actual voice is.
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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently
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Indeed, with about 200 coaches to replace (90*442's and 90*159's and 20*158's) that's a decent sized order before you start to look at capacity improvements.
Now whilst most services would be sensible as a 5 coach unit the Salisbury 6 (Salisbury, Southampton, Eastleigh, Romsey trains) services would be a bit too long, units you liked at having them as a through service to Waterloo by joining/splitting from the Exeter services.
If a 804 (like EMR is using with the 24m coaches and 5 coaches long) then that's likely to have just over 300 seats, so would be a drop from the 392 of a six coach train formed of 159's. However a non 125mph version would be able to use more of the end coaches for seating, especially without the need for such generous catering facilities. The only other change I'd make is to have it so you can walk between units.
However we'd probably need to create a new thread to discuss this much more.
Another 442 delayed today without a reason given. Same one as yesterday, 6:43 Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo . I wonder if it's a similar issues to yesterday. Yet again it delayed the 8:07 Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham but this time by 8 minutes.
I assume with more trains running now, it isn't possible to run the Woking when these trains are late, like they use to do.
The weather isn't great today but that didn't stop the 12 car 450 from departing Guildford on time, at 7:45 I assume the issues are related more to the 442 being new to staff, along with the power issues.
Of course if its due to passengers wanting to board one door at the last minute so they stay under a canopy, perhaps they could extend the platform canopies like they did at Clapham Junction.
Hopefully in time things will settle down.
I assume with more trains running now, it isn't possible to run the Woking when these trains are late, like they use to do.
The weather isn't great today but that didn't stop the 12 car 450 from departing Guildford on time, at 7:45 I assume the issues are related more to the 442 being new to staff, along with the power issues.
Of course if its due to passengers wanting to board one door at the last minute so they stay under a canopy, perhaps they could extend the platform canopies like they did at Clapham Junction.
Hopefully in time things will settle down.
TT-ONR-NRN
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I wonder if the performance may improve after retractioning.
HamworthyGoods
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Sadly the SWML is going through a very bad spell of largely infrastructure delays, which snowball in the peak.
For example tonight the 18.48 left on time was run out on the Down Windsor then crossed over behind the 18.50 Yeovil at Queenstown, it then followed the 159s all the way to Basingstoke meaning it was 10 minutes late by Basingstoke a delay it carried all the way to St Denys where it was regulated for crossing moves become 17 minutes late by which time the 19.05 was on its tail all the way to Poole.
There was an issue tonight around 20:15 that delayed all the trains at St. Denys - I think the guard on my Southern train said a trespasser although I only heard half the announcement.
RealTrains07
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I thought the idea was for 442s to be a stop gap till the next franchise?? Didnt think they would be kept in service after then??
by then spare desiros will be available anyway. Lets save it for another thread before it gets any further
Goldfish62
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Yes, was stated they were only a stop-gap.
A stop gap between this and the next franchise...
Goldfish62
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Just because the current franchise might end soon doesn't mean everything will stop. It'll be business as usual with either SWR under a management contract or OLR as caretaker.
It has always been clear that they were part of the bid to fill in between other stock becoming life expired and a larger replacement order for diesel and possibly all longer distance stock within the next franchise. Or at least it is/was clear to anyone who doesn't think that all stock should be used for a million years before it is replaced. I at no point suggested that should SWR hand the keys back or similar that the 442s would magically vanish. A case of 2+2=5 I think.
SWR have a news article on their twitter feed about the introduction of these. Certainly not proving popular with actual passengers compared to spotters.
https://twitter.com/sw_help/status/1217794907546497024?s=21
https://twitter.com/sw_help/status/1217794907546497024?s=21
bramling
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To be fair it wasn't the spotters who kept complaining about the 450s. The passengers on the Portsmouth line have had the hump ever since the 444s were replaced with 450s. It seems there's no pleasing this lot.
Goldfish62
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Yep. I've seen several tweets recently complaining about the step up to get into them and how claustrophobic they are. No pleasing some people. Let's keep 18 of the 458s and see how they like that.
Yet now they get 3 plus 2 turbos
pigs bay
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If the Pompey commuters prefer how about putting a 10 car 458 on the route, with NO first class and No toilets that work......
Then they might appreciate what SWR are doing, and I for one would love to have the 442's back on the Bournemouth/Weymouth where in my opinion they belong. SWT were wrong withdrawing them back in 2007, just trying to save a few pounds, and not thinking about the passengers. At least SWR are trying to right a major wrong.
Then they might appreciate what SWR are doing, and I for one would love to have the 442's back on the Bournemouth/Weymouth where in my opinion they belong. SWT were wrong withdrawing them back in 2007, just trying to save a few pounds, and not thinking about the passengers. At least SWR are trying to right a major wrong.
43096
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Nothing wrong with the 458s. Vastly better than a 450 on the Reading line.
I've only travelled on a 444 once - last night from Southampton to Waterloo; but the refurb felt fantastic, the seats were so comfy, and they were nice and bright inside. They are pretty nice trains in my opinion.
dorsetdesiro
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I agree, swap the 444s for these to move to the PDL and have the 442s dedicated to the Weymouth line again, there were murmurs about the 442s struggling on the hilly parts of the PDL that the 444s could handle better.
Realistically this is unlikely to happen because not enough of 442s, only if NSE at the time had doubled the order with BREL to say 48 or more that the old slam door stock would have been withdrawn much earlier in 1988-89 instead of 2003-06 also there possibly wouldn't be too many of 450s running around today. Secondly, there's the splitting at Bournemouth which is not as quick & straightforward as 444s/450s that it is best to leave the 442s permanently fixed as 10-car. Only if they had increased the power west of Poole and didn't rip up the double track near Dorchester...
It's lovely having the 442s back, I accept they are now old and in their twilight years, SWR would be their final operator and given with the issues getting these back into service. It is very possible they could get removed in the next SW franchise as it has been speculated about the 158/9s being replaced by new bi-mode stock. Then the 442s could also be set for the chop, making way for new intercity stock for the Weymouth line, then the 444s could get shifted over to the PDL like the 442s are now.
No matter what some naysayers say, I can say the 442s do hold a special place in some hearts as they've been a pleasure to use when there's much worse stock elsewhere and some former 442 drivers postively spoke about steering them (maybe not now) and crass this may sound, one enthusiast enjoyed the 442 experience so much that he made an tragic error with the window.
Let's make the most of the Wessexs while these are still around for now, they've been amusingly called the zombie train as they keep coming back from the dead! Southern even held a farewell tour for them when exiting from GX only to resurface two years later.
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dorsetdesiro
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As for some people complaining about climbing up steps on the 442s, they should try travelling on American commuter trains especially the Boston MBTA Commuter Line that it felt like going on up a stepladder!
I’m probably going to need to turn my notifications off for this, but...
The race to the bottom attitude of some on here absolutely stink, commuters on the Pompey line should apparently be grateful to SWR for introducing a narrow, inaccessible, slow, unsuitable set of rolling stock that belongs on the scrap heap. Just because you’ve got it crap, doesn’t mean everyone else should also have to put up with extra obstacles that weren’t there before.
First have done a reasonable job refurbishing them, and that should be applauded.
I’ve actually seen the issues first hand these are causing for both leisure and commuter travellers, mothers panicking because their standard size (by modern examples) pushchair won’t fit through the door.
Wheelchair users turned away because the ride height is too high such that it’s deemed unsafe to deploy the ramp because of the angle the ramp sits at.
has the First (or stagecoach) bid team had a crystal ball we all know that refurbishing the 350/2s into 451s (low density 450s) would have been the better option all round.
Some people need to remember that railways are built to move vast amounts of people from A-B safely, ideally to time and ideally comfortably.
The race to the bottom attitude of some on here absolutely stink, commuters on the Pompey line should apparently be grateful to SWR for introducing a narrow, inaccessible, slow, unsuitable set of rolling stock that belongs on the scrap heap. Just because you’ve got it crap, doesn’t mean everyone else should also have to put up with extra obstacles that weren’t there before.
First have done a reasonable job refurbishing them, and that should be applauded.
I’ve actually seen the issues first hand these are causing for both leisure and commuter travellers, mothers panicking because their standard size (by modern examples) pushchair won’t fit through the door.
Wheelchair users turned away because the ride height is too high such that it’s deemed unsafe to deploy the ramp because of the angle the ramp sits at.
has the First (or stagecoach) bid team had a crystal ball we all know that refurbishing the 350/2s into 451s (low density 450s) would have been the better option all round.
Some people need to remember that railways are built to move vast amounts of people from A-B safely, ideally to time and ideally comfortably.
43096
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It’s been said numerous times that the Weymouth line is not an option for the 442s - there aren’t enough to run the service. With splitting/joining at Bomo you have to have a compatible fleet.
Quite right. Such a prevalent attitude (not just on the forum). We should be striving for better, not trying to get achieve equally bad. Never mind BR/NSE ordering more 442s, what was really needed was a larger fleet of 444s. But here we are.
And I know there will be claims that the money isn't there, but what's also needed (nationally) is a concerted campaign of platform rebuilding to bring them all to be as straight as possible, as level as possible and at "standard" height.
I’m 100% with all you say in the above.
Realistically the 442/158/159 replacement will probably be based on something very similar to Anglia or LNR's 5car 24m Aventras so around 425-430seats with 2+2 seating + similar wheelchair and UAT provision.
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