Geordie driver
Member
Weren't many of the Sherpas cannibalised to their engines by land Rover owners? One appeared in the soap opera Emmerdale as a service bus ran by the Dingle family which about sums up these vehicles, ex Berwick car I believe.
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Most Hated Bus
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My vote is for the Volvo 7900 bus. Absolute pieces of cheaply built rubbish. They are basically the cheap Pound Shop version of buses. They are the sort of thing i would expect from some cheap Chinese manufacturer rather than a Swedish manufacturer. They just seem so badly built and absolutely full of faults.
They all seem to have leaks. I often travel on the First Berkshire ones regularly and they always leak whenever it rains. I have found leaks in various different parts of the vehicles on 12 different Volvo 7900 buses that First Berkshire have just within the last year or so. You don't want to travel on them when it rains.
Many other problems with them as well. They always seem to be developing faults and problems. They are not good buses. So in my opinion these are by far the worst buses built.
They all seem to have leaks. I often travel on the First Berkshire ones regularly and they always leak whenever it rains. I have found leaks in various different parts of the vehicles on 12 different Volvo 7900 buses that First Berkshire have just within the last year or so. You don't want to travel on them when it rains.
Many other problems with them as well. They always seem to be developing faults and problems. They are not good buses. So in my opinion these are by far the worst buses built.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Before they started pratting with the Bozza bus, that design had become the face of the London bus, used on all the posters, publicity etc. Definitely a design classic.
Busman84
Member
The T-Y reg Tridents up here in Glasgow I wasn’t a fan of. Some were awful, when you braked your foot was flat to the floor on a number of them and it still showed the retarder was working. Some were fast and the first big hill or good stretch of road to get good speed they would overheat.. The 51 plates onwards were far better. Brakes were far better and acceleration night and day.. They coped with hills no problem.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
The Lothian examples I've been on were all lovely buses.
I know the LDV Convoy(still basically a Sherpa)
The clue to the problems is in your own post, "First Berkshire". First can barely maintain an off the shelf Trident let alone a Volvo 7900. I'm with Jordan on this one, the Lothian 7900s and indeed the B5LH deckers which are based on the same chassis are excellent vehicles to travel on and far far more reliable than ADLs god awful Hybrids.
Not going to dispute the Willowbrook 003 wasn't the finest of bodies, but there's a story about how those came into being which may or may not be true. It was being announced in the House of Commons that the NBC were buying a number of coaches with the bodies mainly being supplied by Plaxton and Duple when the MP for Loughborough intervened and asked why Willowbrook (who were based in Loughborough) weren't included in this - the decision was changed to include Willowbrook in the orders but the 003 design was intentionally a copy of the Duple Dominant to the extent that some key parts such as windscreens were interchangeable to minimise spares costs. As I say, no idea if it's true, but sounds plausible.
My nomination for 'worst bus' has to go to the Mercedes minibuses of the mid 90s the 709D, 811Ds etc. I've never yet ridden on something which was as uncomfortable as these were - the ride was rock hard and they managed to find every bump in the road - and they were noisy with usually harsh auto gearchanges - even a National wasn't as noisy as those. I don't recall the MCW / Optare Metroriders ever being as uncomfortable. Having said that, it was 30 years ago, maybe my memory is playing tricks, but I don't remember those with any fondness.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Wouldn't say they're overrated, there's plenty of people who hate them with a passion. Imo it all comes down to specification. Presidents were just crap regardless of spec
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cnjb8
Established Member
Yes, maybe by First standards. In my area, Skills Coaches high spec Enviro400 MMC SN17 MVV, the one time I went on it, was fantastic but the driver seemed to have to go and lift up the back, get to the engine and turn it on again!
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Both the First and Stagecoach batches fall towards the lower end of the "Spectrum" (detect the pun...). Imo ZF examples are far superior to the Voith ones.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Wouldn't say they're overrated, there's plenty of people who hate them with a passion. Imo it all comes down to specification. Presidents were just crap regardless of spec
Don't know if Presidents are crap. Had a First Trident recently and that was fine despite its 17 years. The NXWM B7TLs were ok that I travelled on. More that the older First ones were often Trident 1s (ponderous) and that those crippling seats that First liked around 1999-2002
Plaxton Prestiges - the single deck version - were terrible though.
I didn't find them too bad. However, the 0814 Vario - abysmal.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
"Trident 1" that's a worrying prospect...
. I'd assume you're referring to the Ex-London Trident 2s, if so then yes some of those were awful. Especially the W-VLN batch. I agree the O814 Vario is appalling.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Sorry - you’re quite right. The initial batches of the Trident 2 (1997-2000) whereas the 2nd generation of Tridents were much better."Trident 1" that's a worrying prospect...
I agree the O814 Vario is appalling.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
I agree, some of the Euro 2 examples with the 6CT engine were awful/gutless. Thankfully the Euro 3 Cummins ISC offered from 2001 was a big improvement.
randyrippley
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Surely one of the all-time worst bus designs were those horrible Talbot branded Peugeot/Simca front wheel drive tri-axle minibuses.
I don't know what they were called, but they were leaky rattly awful things that broke down on a daily basis
I don't know what they were called, but they were leaky rattly awful things that broke down on a daily basis
Six of the worst...
Wright Renault/Dodge S75 - Centrewest's old London Hoppas. Operated by Beeline, felt like I was traveling with Stena Line. A child could make the things sway from side to side.
Wright Streetlite Max DF - A bus that I actively avoid and so should you!
Optare Solo MK1 - Not even Reading Transport could stop these from rattling. A bus shaped Hitachi Magic Wand. The SR/MK2 is a vast improvement.
Optare Versa - A dash that beeps so much I felt sorry for the driver behind the wheel.
Volvo 7900 hybrid - A very disappointing first experience of a bus with stop start tech. Do you like hearing a bus engine start up after every single stop? This is the bus for you!
NBfL/New Routemaster (summer only) - Despite the retrofitted opening windows, I still find them stuffy and unpleasant to travel on the top deck on a hot summer's day. Fabulous interior for a modern bus though, fine to travel on during the rest of the year.
Wright Renault/Dodge S75 - Centrewest's old London Hoppas. Operated by Beeline, felt like I was traveling with Stena Line. A child could make the things sway from side to side.
Wright Streetlite Max DF - A bus that I actively avoid and so should you!
Optare Solo MK1 - Not even Reading Transport could stop these from rattling. A bus shaped Hitachi Magic Wand. The SR/MK2 is a vast improvement.
Optare Versa - A dash that beeps so much I felt sorry for the driver behind the wheel.
Volvo 7900 hybrid - A very disappointing first experience of a bus with stop start tech. Do you like hearing a bus engine start up after every single stop? This is the bus for you!
NBfL/New Routemaster (summer only) - Despite the retrofitted opening windows, I still find them stuffy and unpleasant to travel on the top deck on a hot summer's day. Fabulous interior for a modern bus though, fine to travel on during the rest of the year.
Busman84
Member
Even Northern Counties cab on Volvo Olympian I didn’t like. Alexander Royale a much better cab along with switch layouts..
I assume you mean a Talbot Freeway / Talbot Pullman - something like this https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelwadman/28148283752/
I never had the pleasure - but I do recall seeing one that County Bus in Harlow sent out one Sunday on the 724 to either Watford or Heathrow....... They weren't averse to sending some particularly vile Iveco minibuses out to do that on a Sunday either.
I can only assume the reason for the 3 axles is to allow for the chassis extension and to manage the weight, rather than to have built a proper 'heavyweight' minibus chassis (heavyweight being a relative term).
Yes the Talbot Pullman, used by a lot of councils for welfare transport, only to be replaced with the just as bad CVE omni
Bevan Price
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The only buses I hate are those with adverts covering all (or most) of the windows. Makes the interior gloomy and unwelcoming, and I find visually disturbing the pattern of (apparently) moving dots past the exterior background (sky, etc.) Unfortunately Metrolink also inflict the same punishment on some of their tram passengers.
Man of Kent
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Regrettably not borne out by searching Hansard for "Willowbrook", where it isn't mentioned at all (except in the case of a housing estate in Peckham). Contemporary records suggest it was merely because of long lead times on deliveries from other bodybuilders - the 003 followed on from double deck bodies for East Kent and Northern General on Bristol VRs.
90sWereBetter
Member
I recall SPT ordering a couple of these for the stationlink service in Glasgow...and then never actually using them in service! Pretty much says it all. Wonder what happened to the vehicles, there's a dearth of photos.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Whilst it may not have been an “official “ view, Loughborough was and is a bellwether seat so wouldn’t have been a bad idea to curry favour in the town.
The 003’s were terrible from the off with my father’s depot receiving one new. Within weeks, water was leaking in but there were simple design issues like the position of gear change pedestal in relation to the drivers seat, or the design/pitch of the passenger seats.
I call them the Optare Alero of their time, a few of them have been converted into Motorhomes like the Alero, Kent county council had a few of them for their services even one of the local independents in Medway, Mercury Passenger Services had one for standard passenger work.
That was First for you though, they wanted to run the buses they owned right into the ground as was their policy of scrapping and not selling to others, even if some did get refurbished after London.
The London stock was what operational areas were getting when they didn't want to invest properly in new stock. Once they pulled out of London, no more cascading from there, more new orders had to happen.
As a First driver, who drives a lot of Trident presidents, some of them are a dream to drive, some are awful. I guess that’s to be expected from 18 year old buses with well over a million miles on!
Eyersey468
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East Yorkshire's native Presidents (by which I mean the ones new as fleet numbers 658/9/62-89) were lovely machines to drive especially the 52 and 53 reg ones
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I've never had that much pleasure on a Solo!
The Solo was better than the MetroRider it replaced and that, in turn and even with MCW build quality, was better than the Dodge or Sherpas they replaced.
As for cruddy minibuses, the manual 709Ds Stagecoach had were truly dire. Gear changes through the power of Semtex and you bounced clean out of your seat on every pothole. Catching one over Honister was an...experience.
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