Do you think they will ? If so, when do you think "soon" might be ?
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Questions for people who have used e-tickets
- Thread starter yorkie
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Do you think they will ? If so, when do you think "soon" might be ?
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MidlandsChap
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It does seem so.
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By loading them onto the customer's phone.
I don't necessarily disagree. It is true however that DfT consider them 'Smart' Tickets.
So does the code on an e-ticket. What's your point?
You claimed you wanted tickets stored in a central database. Well that's not now too far off a reality. However it comes with a whole lot of restrictions put in place by the train companies. A ticket can be issued at a station in this way on receipt roll but if it is that's a unique key. They can issue it as a PKpass too but again you don't get a printed copy or a PDF if you choose that option. Transpennine Express are issuing them to people's phones but of course they won't allow you to put it onto a second device. Then we have companies like Greater Anglia who insist on the idea of m-tickets. The system you want is kind of here already, but it's still terrible.
Oh and also the database isn't at all good behind the scenes. Lots of scans don't show up. Lots of machines are unable to scan tickets issued by any retailer. Using the same code twice at a station isn't difficult. Etc. lots of tickets have a magstripe and an Aztec code on them too, but the code cannot be used to open the gate.
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As I say, as long as they're on a handy, wallet sized card format, (preferably with orange top and bottom borders) then that's fine.
londiscape
Member
I had my first experience with e-tickets a couple of weeks ago when I and my colleague needed to travel from Bristol to London early in the morning, so bought our tickets from Trainsplit as the anytime fares are laughable. I was expecting to be able to collect the tickets from a machine at Bristol Parkway but I cocked up the purchase process on Trainsplit (didn't notice the choice of delivery method) and ended up with e-tickets instead.
Initially wasn't happy with this, but managed to forward my colleague his PDF ticket and all was well, GWR guard scanned them with his device and was happy, had a bit of a problem with Paddington gateline which didn't recognise the QR code and the first staff member bloke said I had zoomed in too much and proceeded to take my phone and wander up and down with it for a couple of minutes (appeared to be hard of thinking) until a more sensible lady took a quick look and let me through.
I have been considering using e-tickets instead of my usual buy tickets from TVM but would appreciate guidance on the following, given that my tickets are always flexible and are either Off peak or Super off peak - I never use Advances and try to avoid Anytimes if poss - and try to mitigate costs with splitting:
- Would I have a problem doing BoJ on e-tickets, or at least would BoJ be no more problematic than card tickets? On a long journey I regularly BoJ at an intermediate station to get a meal / beer
- Would Delay Repay be more problematic with e-tickets compared to card tickets?
- Is there any other way the railway could deny me my rights if I use an e-ticket vs a card ticket? Quite happy to tell individual staff to f off if they are making stuff up on the fly, but want to be able to back this up.
@yorkie - I know you are well versed in this kind of thing, if you are OK with e-tickets I will be too and would appreciate any advice, just want to know if there's any way I could be negatively impacted by using them.
Also want to make clear if I use e-tickets I would only be buying them with Trainsplit - I have no interest in using apps or TOCs or any other such rubbish, I will want a PDF emailed.
Initially wasn't happy with this, but managed to forward my colleague his PDF ticket and all was well, GWR guard scanned them with his device and was happy, had a bit of a problem with Paddington gateline which didn't recognise the QR code and the first staff member bloke said I had zoomed in too much and proceeded to take my phone and wander up and down with it for a couple of minutes (appeared to be hard of thinking) until a more sensible lady took a quick look and let me through.
I have been considering using e-tickets instead of my usual buy tickets from TVM but would appreciate guidance on the following, given that my tickets are always flexible and are either Off peak or Super off peak - I never use Advances and try to avoid Anytimes if poss - and try to mitigate costs with splitting:
- Would I have a problem doing BoJ on e-tickets, or at least would BoJ be no more problematic than card tickets? On a long journey I regularly BoJ at an intermediate station to get a meal / beer
- Would Delay Repay be more problematic with e-tickets compared to card tickets?
- Is there any other way the railway could deny me my rights if I use an e-ticket vs a card ticket? Quite happy to tell individual staff to f off if they are making stuff up on the fly, but want to be able to back this up.
@yorkie - I know you are well versed in this kind of thing, if you are OK with e-tickets I will be too and would appreciate any advice, just want to know if there's any way I could be negatively impacted by using them.
Also want to make clear if I use e-tickets I would only be buying them with Trainsplit - I have no interest in using apps or TOCs or any other such rubbish, I will want a PDF emailed.
It probably won't let you out automatically. What sort of problem do you mean? Being accused of having already used the ticket and thus trying to avoid paying the correct fare? That's definitely possible, but probably not more likely than with a paper ticket where the paper ticket was physically marked and the electronic one is electronically marked.
Something will probably go wrong with a claim with more than one ticket regardless of the format they're in. Some companies just dislike paying their bills.
Maybe. This thread is replete with examples. Doesn't mean you'll come across them. Have you had a read?
transmanche
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I've never had a problem claiming DelayRepay on an e-ticket.
Arguably, with some TOCs starting to do Automated DelayRepay, it might even be easier.
londiscape
Member
Thanks for reply @Starmill much appreciated.
What I normally do with a card ticket is show it to staff at an intermediate station on the way out and say that I want to go out of the station for a couple of hours and then come back in later to continue the journey. At most stations this is done without question (Gloucester, Swindon and Reading in most cases) and I'm let back in after BoJ equally without question.
Just wanted to know whether my experience would, or could, be different if I had an e-ticket PDF on my phone (I have no interest in printing it out, I don't have a home printer anyway) versus my usual piece(s) of orange card. Could the staff, for example, deny me re-entry to the station because my e-ticket has already been "scanned"?
Thanks again
londiscape
Member
I have had a read of the rest of the thread, but there seems to be a confusion with M tickets which I think I understand do restrict passengers rights, versus E tickets which (please correct me if I'm wrong) are supposed to be equal to paper tickets but the theory doesn't always reflect the practice.
I want to move to E tickets from Trainsplit as (amongst other things) it would save me from the criminally feculent Paddington TVMs which I have had cause to thump in frustration on more than one occasion. And it would be nice not to have to carry around a load of paper tickets until I get the chance to do my expenses.
But if I do, I would like to make sure the railway can't screw me more than it already does just because I have the E tickets. I guess I can't quantify this in terms of facts, it's just a matter of confidence.
Thanks again
Yes, undoubtedly there is a possibility of that. But there's a similar possibility that the same staff would incorrectly decide not to let you in with a magstripe ticket that didn't open the gate.
londiscape
Member
OK - so are we saying that the same problems could happen with card tickets and E tickets? In that case I could move to E tickets with no difference? If this is so, then great - I can start using E tickets with no deficiency in my rights
I think you're looking for a reassurance that doesn't exist to be completely honest. It's something you'll need to make your own judgement about based on the available evidence.
londiscape
Member
That's a fair point and I agree. I don't have much trust (if any) in the railway system and my default point when anything changes is "this is going to be bad for me". I'm not a regular poster but I do read regularly as I want to be informed about the mode of travel I am forced to use.
Thanks again for your responses, especially as it's Friday night, it is appreciated.
In my opinion, there are plenty of problems with both e-tickets and card tickets. Some are the same problems (e.g. not working in certain gatelines) and some are different problems (e.g. magnetic stripes getting wiped, or e-tickets not being recognised by staff).
I prefer e-tickets because I find them more convenient - and I do think they're the future, if done better - but, right now, you pays your money and you takes your choice.
londiscape
Member
For the avoidance of doubt, if you intend to book with Trainsplit, you wouldn't qualify for automatic Delay Repay for the time being.
Got one accidentally this week as I bought a ticket on GAs website using my phone. Didn't realise till I'd bought it that you don't get any option other than some e-ticket or m-ticket thing that you have to download their app to use.
I'm still not sure whether it was e or m, which made my subsequent delay repay claim ever more of a faff than usual. And as I don't have something physical I just know I'm going to forget to put them on my expense claim. And if I do remember I'll have to print out the email confirmation on 2 or 3 sheets of paper.
So nil paper saving and more farting about with electronic devices whilst travelling.
I'll stick to proper tickets. Appaling that GA don't allow you to buy them when using a mobile device.
I'm still not sure whether it was e or m, which made my subsequent delay repay claim ever more of a faff than usual. And as I don't have something physical I just know I'm going to forget to put them on my expense claim. And if I do remember I'll have to print out the email confirmation on 2 or 3 sheets of paper.
So nil paper saving and more farting about with electronic devices whilst travelling.
I'll stick to proper tickets. Appaling that GA don't allow you to buy them when using a mobile device.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
As I understand it the point of an e-ticket is that it is also encoded with a unique identity so if you buy two e-tickets for an identical journey the barcodes will be different. The validity of the ticket is established by the records in a central database which confirm that exact ticket hasn't already been used. So you can make as many backup copies of the ticket as you like but the checking process should ensure that they can't be used to make the journey more than once.
A paper ticket with magstripe or barcode just encodes the details of the journey the ticket is valid for, but the validity is established by the physical possession of a piece of orange paper or card that hasn't been cancelled. It is pointless to make a copy of the ticket in case it is lost, because the copy proves nothing and anyone checking it will just assume that the holder is trying to make the journey twice or someone else is making the same journey using the original.
So to answer the question that started this sub-discussion (which for some reason it isn't letting me quote), stations don't issue e-tickets currently as far as I'm aware. It would be entirely possible for a station to issue a ticket which is essentially an e-ticket printed on a piece of orange card. Indeed they may well do this at some point in the future for security reasons. Someone with access to blank orange cards, a suitable printer and equipment to duplicate the magstripe could clone a conventional ticket and the companies would be none the wiser. But similarly copying a printed e-ticket is pointless because the check of the database will reveal it to have been used already.
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ashkeba
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It's m. GA call them e but they're not. GA seem to be fraudsters. Even if you want e tickets, buy from someone better.
I collected some tickets from an LNER machine last week and noticed they had a QR code on them. It's a journey I frequently make and haven't noticed them before, but I haven't ever collected them from an LNER station (I had time to kill at Peterborough).
Would they be unique to each ticket, or just a QR version of whatever's on the mag stripe?
I did try it on the barcode reader at the Liverpool Street barriers but it didn't seem to work.
They aren't fraudsters. There's a certain logic in pushing people buying tickets on a mobile device to default to m tickets, but it would be nice if there was a way to override it.
They won't there's only a limited amount of information on the codes on CCST tickets and aren't meant to be scanned on the gates. The conventional method of putting it in the gate still applies.
I'm unsure if LNER still tell their TM's to scan the Aztec codes.
Sam
Wallsendmag
Established Member
Type 11 not type 6 so very little info on those barcodes. We've had barcodes on our tickets since GNER days
I had my second e-ticket experience last week. My first one had been smooth enough. I used an app (TrainPal - for the discounts). However, preparing the app for the barriers at Ipswich, the app just crashed band refused to restart.
Thankfully, a phone restart sorted it. What would happen in the situation if I couldn't get the app to start?
Thankfully, a phone restart sorted it. What would happen in the situation if I couldn't get the app to start?
alistairlees
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This would have been an m-ticket (or should have been). There are no eTickets for Greater Anglia flows (they are all m-ticket). As the m-ticket is stored in the app, I expect you would have been stuck, except for any help customer service might have been able to provide.
Wallsendmag
Established Member
e-Tickets don't need an app
I take your point about TfL but in the case if Effingham Junction to Sutton, TfL don't run any trains between them, nor any stopping at stations in between.
With that in mind, how long does it take to enable e-tickets for two stations where TfL does't run any trains to said stations nor run any trains stopping at stations in between the two said stations?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Do they actually, if issued on bog-roll, have a record in a database that is the ticket, and the piece of barcoded bog roll is just a reference to it? I'm not sure, I didn't think they did, because it would make things a bit harder when issuing them on lines with poor mobile signal if they did.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
However long it takes to press the button enabling it if the TOC is so minded. To be honest, the London issue aside, I think it should be mandatory.
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