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Pushchairs on trains
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It's amazing how many of the current generation of parents think that they invented appropriate parental discipline when all us older folk know that we did!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Fair point, though it isn't beyond the wit of man and IT that a well designed system would allow a member of platform staff to pull out their phone and log a request the second they speak to the wheelchair user and find out which train they wish to board.
...in which case my 1 y/o will scream (his only available form of communication available) loudly and repeatedly, pissing off nearby passengers nearby, complete with judgmental looks, tutting and under-breath muttering.
Where a train is crowded, I will strap him into his pram if necessary (simply don't have the energy to restrain him myself on my lap from his inevitable constant wriggling), and sod the noise (though I'll do my best to feed him/keep him entertained). Otherwise, I'll let him walk around the carriage under my direct supervision.
Exactly. So by some TOCs having the policy of 'wheelchair space must be kept free at all times', it would help somewhat to avoid delay.
And how embarrassing must it be for a wheelchair user having to wait and watch passengers with pushchairs move all their stuff at the point of boarding, having been requested by staff. It would be easier if they just kept the space free.
Yes, but we'd have far more complaints of there not being enough seats (and/or higher fares).
MirenRabbit
New Member
I am currently travelling (very nervously) for the first time with my baby on the train. She is only 5 months so I have a carrycot pram.
I needed to bring the carrycot as this will act as her bed when I stay at my parent's house. I'm on my own so if I get asked to fold it I will be asking for help. I have a sling to put her in but I also have a rucksack with our stuff for the weekend and have to first take off the carrycot then collapse the frame. To do that whilst carrying a baby and a rucksack will be impossible I think I'm just not strong enough. She's only 5 months old so I can't leave her on a seat to do this also.
If I was with my partner it would be fine but as I am alone I physically can't do it. I understand where people are coming from from both sides but I feel when you have a young baby and you are travelling alone it is made impossible. If I wasn't needing to spend the night I would have only brought the sling. I don't want to spend extra money buying another bed for her at my parent's house. I have traveled on the 7.15 am train on a saturday to try and avoid any crowds so I've more chance of not needing to fold up the pram.
I think the real issue is that the trains are just crap in this country. In other countries there is space for bikes, wheelchair users and families with prams without the need to compromise for one another. I would always give up space for wheelchair users as I totally understand that the last thing they want is to be unable to get to the only space they can use. I'm prepared to fold my pram but what I'm saying is I'm going to need a hand! A train guard totally ignored me as I tried to get on this train and a woman off the platform who wasn't even getting on the same train helped me. Instead of moaning about passengers with a pram, give them a hand and we can all get to where we need to go quicker.
I needed to bring the carrycot as this will act as her bed when I stay at my parent's house. I'm on my own so if I get asked to fold it I will be asking for help. I have a sling to put her in but I also have a rucksack with our stuff for the weekend and have to first take off the carrycot then collapse the frame. To do that whilst carrying a baby and a rucksack will be impossible I think I'm just not strong enough. She's only 5 months old so I can't leave her on a seat to do this also.
If I was with my partner it would be fine but as I am alone I physically can't do it. I understand where people are coming from from both sides but I feel when you have a young baby and you are travelling alone it is made impossible. If I wasn't needing to spend the night I would have only brought the sling. I don't want to spend extra money buying another bed for her at my parent's house. I have traveled on the 7.15 am train on a saturday to try and avoid any crowds so I've more chance of not needing to fold up the pram.
I think the real issue is that the trains are just crap in this country. In other countries there is space for bikes, wheelchair users and families with prams without the need to compromise for one another. I would always give up space for wheelchair users as I totally understand that the last thing they want is to be unable to get to the only space they can use. I'm prepared to fold my pram but what I'm saying is I'm going to need a hand! A train guard totally ignored me as I tried to get on this train and a woman off the platform who wasn't even getting on the same train helped me. Instead of moaning about passengers with a pram, give them a hand and we can all get to where we need to go quicker.
Is there no way you can distract the child? Sometimes that can work in the case of a tantrum, but it depends on the child's willingness to be distracted?
Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Or if it does, only for so long.
With a bit more experience now, most passengers I find to either be helpful or at least quietly patient - it's only a minority who actively aren't.
Agree that UK trains are generally terribly designed for travelling with young children and associated encumberments (**longs for the Deutsche Bahn ICE Klienkindbereich (Toddler Compartment)**). Trying to find *anywhere* to store a folded pushchair on a GWR 802 without blocking an aisle, doorway or cycle space was impossible.
matt_world2004
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Parents chose to have children disabled person didn't choose to be in a wheelchair.
xc170
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I find Pendolinos to be bad, whenever my son has a rather small pushchair but there still is no where to store it.
If the wheelchair bay is unoccupied, it goes there, if occupied, I'll stand in the vestibule.
I was on a 158 on a Sheffield to Bridlington service last summer, my son was asleep leaving Sheffield so I sat in the middle vestibule in the bike area, the train was almost empty but the guard still made sure to point out that the pushchair needs to be folded, my response was that if the train got busy then I'd possibly consider it...
Some advice to make life a bit easier. If you board and leave the train in the right way you shouldn't need help - get on board first before attempting any folding. Leave the rear wheels grounded and push down on the handles to raise the front wheels on to the step and push up. That way the train will always help support the pushchair. Always leave the train so that you stand on the platform, pull the pushchair backwards and at the same time lower the rear wheels on to the platform then roll backwards and lower the front ones and again the train will take the weight of the chair and you will be tilting baby back into their seat rather than forward.
If you need help ask for it - we spend lots of time on trains and see lots of people with heavy luggage, pushchairs etc. The items people choose to bring with them on trains are their responsibility and rather than the occasional one off most people will come across people expect me to risk my back with awkward lifting all the time - getting it wrong once is enough to muck you up for life and you don't get paid any extra for it.
With that in mind I personally will always help people who a) look like they're struggling b) are doing something daft like propelling a pushchair forward out of a train into mid air and offer suitable advice and demonstration on how to do it safely but if you need help it's really on you to ask - be aware it's generally written in to the terms of service of railway staff that they have to right to refuse to lift anything owned by a customer.
Travelling with your little one is something no one really trains new parents for so despite all that being said I try to be tolerant and offer help and advice. British trains are generally cramped and it doesn't make life easy however it's not unique - some European railway undertakings for example charge extra fees for pushchairs.
I presume you mean the person in a wheelchair.
People here saying they would not move their child in a pushchair in order to accommodate a person in a wheelchair fail to understand the difference between what is highly desirable for you vs what is essential for the person in a wheelchair.
A few years ago at Preston I was working an afternoon peak service stopper towards Manchester. The train had been short formed so space was at at premium. A young lady ( shall we say she wasn't from the upper echelons of society judging by her potty mouth ) boarded with a pushchair. The child i would say was roughly 3 years old. She placed the pushchair in the wheelchair space.
A few moments later a wheelchair user turned up requiring the space. I asked the young lady to take her child out and fold the pushchair up so the wheelchair user could board. Her response to this request would make a sailor blush. Naturally the young lady after a few minutes left the train after being politely refused travel due to her behaviour.
A few moments later a wheelchair user turned up requiring the space. I asked the young lady to take her child out and fold the pushchair up so the wheelchair user could board. Her response to this request would make a sailor blush. Naturally the young lady after a few minutes left the train after being politely refused travel due to her behaviour.
I am left wondering how some people having such difficulty transporting their child would deal with my wife's approach when our children were little. She is blind and a guide dog owner, and would walk along with the dog in one hand at the front, guiding her, as she pulled one child in a pushchair behind her whilst having the other child in a sling on her front.
I think an issue now is often the size of the pushchair. When my kids were under three in the 80’s, the general size of pushchairs was quite small and they were easily folded. They are really much bigger nowadays and are not all quick and easy to fold. Only common sense and polite requests can overcome issues that arise. Our trains are simply not all designed for wheeled on pushchairs. I have seen issues also on buses and sometimes offers of assistance can turn into arguments. Strangely, travel on Spanish trains, and help from passengers is usually forthcoming. Different cultures but they love kids. Common sense and politeness get you a long way.
Spartacus
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To be honest unless it’s a pacer people helping is usually more of a problem than not. Forwards on, backwards off usually solves all problems, until someone wants to help and randomly grabs the pushchair and upsets the balance.
As a parent with a disabled child who travels in a carefully chosen commercially available push-chair, you’d be surprised how rude and expectant adult disabled passengers and their careers can be. My daughter could not safely travel by train without her push chair yet because its not traditional people treat it as optional.
father_jack
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No origin or destination supplied....... People on here happy to help with the correct info.
And what if the parent or child is disabled?
matt_world2004
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Wouldn't the pushchair be classed as a wheelchair then?
Agree, most time forwards on / backwards off is eaay without help. And it feels rude to refuse people who kindly offer!
Or could be the parent who, for example, may have a back issue preventing them easily folding pram or listing.
matt_world2004
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Why should a wheelchair user be responsible for that parents reproductive choices
Back issues can be temporary or happen after you have made the parenting choice....
Was just an example....don't assume the parent always has the full ability. And nobody should be denied the choice of becoming a parent. That's just wrong.
Exactly, I get a bit fed up with the assumption that the wheelchair user is always right and the parent with the buggy is always wrong.
matt_world2004
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Yet back problems or not why should the parents choice to be a parent be forced on the wheelchair user.
njlawley
Member
That's what I used to do when my two were in a pushchair. I only ever used the wheelchair on a couple of occasions, one was when travelling from Wigan to Carlisle (and also the return journey back). Most other times involved standing in the vestibule as it was only a shorter hop journey to somewhere like Preston, Warrington or Lancaster. It wasn't worth the hassle otherwise, as I could put the buggy by the opposite door, given boarding/alighting was always by the same door as the one I entered via. On longer journeys (e.g. to London or Birmingham), I'd have reserved seats, so the buggy would be collapsed automatically.
On Northern's local services, I never had too much of a problem due to the space available. 142s were designed in such a way that a buggy could go beneath the luggage pen at one end of the train. 156s were the same because of the huge cycle pen (marked with a vinyl strip along the top of the carriage). 150s would depend on the interior layout; the ex-NWT units had the wheelchair area next to the toilet, again with copious amounts of space, but other types had less space. Believe it or not, I only got to know unit numbers because of this - it was handy seeing a unit number and this knowing roughly where to go!
Needless to say, if the train was very busy, then the pushchair would be folded up and stowed appropriately. Without complaining! Likewise, if the train had smaller wheelchair (or cycle) bays.
With the introduction of the IET, this discussion has got somewhat more interesting owing to the wheelchair accessible spaces being located in First Class on 5-car variants. All TOCs operating this stock (to my knowledge) now operate a strict policy that the wheelchair spaces are solely for the use of wheelchair users or those using alternatives which would otherwise qualify as a wheelchair (i.e. a disabled child in an adapted pram).
This is certainly causing some conflict as I've seen parents head straight for the wheelchair spaces ("like we always do") and can't understand why they are being denied access. Quite simply - nobody who has paid for First Class travel wants to listen to three small children in buggies and if a wheelchair user needs the space, moving the buggies to a different coach means a complex process of getting them off and back on somewhere else. It's so degrading for the wheelchair user to feel like they are causing other people inconvenience, when in reality, there are two spaces out of 342 seats that they are physically able to use.
Parents - please take the above into account when using modern rolling stock. Wheelchair spaces are not always 'for everyone unless otherwise used'.
This is certainly causing some conflict as I've seen parents head straight for the wheelchair spaces ("like we always do") and can't understand why they are being denied access. Quite simply - nobody who has paid for First Class travel wants to listen to three small children in buggies and if a wheelchair user needs the space, moving the buggies to a different coach means a complex process of getting them off and back on somewhere else. It's so degrading for the wheelchair user to feel like they are causing other people inconvenience, when in reality, there are two spaces out of 342 seats that they are physically able to use.
Parents - please take the above into account when using modern rolling stock. Wheelchair spaces are not always 'for everyone unless otherwise used'.
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