Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or more likely whether binning their timetable plan and going with lots of elements from Govia bid plan one sorts things!
Might Govia mount a legal challenge if they do that to the point that it puts them in breach?
Or more likely whether binning their timetable plan and going with lots of elements from Govia bid plan one sorts things!
Sales teams being out of touch with the delivery capabilities of the rest of the business is hardly an unusual situation, to be fair.
To be fair all these MDs are operating in a phoney market where the militant trade unions have zero stake in the commercial success of their business and manage to use paid overtime as a bargaining chip.Must a MD have operating experience? I'd rather have someone who can manage and lead those with operational experience, rather than a fantastic operator but terrible at management. Ideally, a little operational knowledge helps but in a MD role it isn't vital.
To be fair all these MDs are operating in a phoney market where the militant trade unions have zero stake in the commercial success of their business and manage to use paid overtime as a bargaining chip.
In any other business a certain union would have succeeded in losing most of their members jobs.
A change of MD, franchise, government or local mayor doesn't change that landscape.
Other TOCs have recently parted with MDs who had as much operational experience as could realistically be expected of anyone.
Look at how many TOCs are in trouble over Sundays and/or getting staff trained on new routes and stock.So you are saying the problems of this TOC are essentially down to the Trade Unions and nothing to do with the lousy timetabling?
I completely agree, that all became pretty clear long ago, when the likes of Graham Eccles, boss at BRs south central who’d contributed to development of a considerable DOO operation there, moved to SWT & promptly signed a deal with unions to rip all their recently renewed DOO equipment downA change of MD, franchise, government or local mayor doesn't change that landscape.
Other TOCs have recently parted with MDs who had as much operational experience as could realistically be expected of anyone.
Look at how many TOCs are in trouble over Sundays and/or getting staff trained on new routes and stock.
There is one common denominator in all of these problems, changing the MD wont change the fact the unions behave as if they have nothing to lose from scorching the earth.
Public sector, private sector, LUL, heavy rail, across every owning group going, experienced MD or 'outsider' it doesn't seem to make any difference.
It is surprisingly difficult to cover any variations in work when the union have got the contracted week down to just 35hrs and even voluntary paid overtime is considered 'over and above'.The union at my place is crap. Management do what they like. The reason that coverage is so tight is because it's cheaper to employ less staff and rely on OT. Its nowt to do with unions. I love reading comments on here from people who clearly dont work in the job going on about unions this and unions that. Our company council are a waste of space who spend all day in the pub hiding from their members. If the company can't cover work its because they haven't got enough staff. Simple as that.
It is surprisingly difficult to cover any variations in work when the union have got the contracted week down to just 35hrs and even voluntary paid overtime is considered 'over and above'.
If the company council can spend all day in the pub that suggests thet should be driving trains instead?
In a lot of places employees would like the idea if being below establishment as it would mean more overtime but on the railway the unions prefer to shut down the business by using rest day working as leverage. In a real business the factory would close if they carried on like that.
Yes, both exceptional MDs.Both are spoken highly of. Unlike the decade just gone where LU seems to have had a new MD each week.
The reason that coverage is so tight is because it's cheaper to employ less staff and rely on OT
I am no fan of RMT. However any management that relies on massive worker concessions on Terms and Conditions, ideally at zero cost, in order to make its plans viable is deluded and on a hiding to nothing. It is emphatically NOT the role of a TU, militant or otherwise, to screw it's members for the good of a business.Look at how many TOCs are in trouble over Sundays and/or getting staff trained on new routes and stock.
There is one common denominator in all of these problems, changing the MD wont change the fact the unions behave as if they have nothing to lose from scorching the earth.
Public sector, private sector, LUL, heavy rail, across every owning group going, experienced MD or 'outsider' it doesn't seem to make any difference.
I am no fan of RMT. However any management that relies on massive worker concessions on Terms and Conditions, ideally at zero cost, in order to make its plans viable is deluded and on a hiding to nothing. It is emphatically NOT the role of a TU, militant or otherwise, to screw it's members for the good of a business.
Whether the members are getting ‘screwed’ depends on how gold plated their current position is.
It’s the inability to have different contracts for new starters that really annoys me - they know what they are signing up to so there aren’t the same issues as for changing current workers’ terms
To be fair all these MDs are operating in a phoney market where the militant trade unions have zero stake in the commercial success of their business and manage to use paid overtime as a bargaining chip. In any other business a certain union would have succeeded in losing most of their members jobs. Other TOCs have recently parted with MDs who had as much operational experience as could realistically be expected of anyone.
I can’t think of any uk rail franchise or concession so far that’s been awarded with expectations on that basis .any management that relies on massive worker concessions on Terms and Conditions, ideally at zero cost, in order to make its plans viable is deluded and on a hiding to nothing..
What are the overtime rates?
or of course the TOCs could simply employ enough staff to meet their promised obligations.
In that case using overtime will be cheaper. Might be different if there was an hourly overtime rate.Can't speak for West Mids but at my place its £45 booking on payment and then normal rate. I know many other TOCs have better rates than.
Are SWR that amibitious/unrealistic? They have ordered a lot of new stock but they are a big franchise. LNwR aren't particularly either, the 350s have been in service for ages and have proved to be reliable, all they are doing is introducing a new fleet of trains in addition to the 350s, and a couple 230s. WMR isn't unreliastic, they are replacing 170s and introducing more 172s but I wouldn't call it that ambitious.ambitious and unrealistic / undeliverable (GA, SWR, LNwR, Northern, TPX)
Meerkat said:What are the overtime rates?
To be fair all these MDs are operating in a phoney market where the militant trade unions have zero stake in the commercial success of their business and manage to use paid overtime as a bargaining chip.
In any other business a certain union would have succeeded in losing most of their members jobs.
A change of MD, franchise, government or local mayor doesn't change that landscape.
Other TOCs have recently parted with MDs who had as much operational experience as could realistically be expected of anyone.
DfT have little to do with the Victoria Line strike ballots. Same union, different management, not privatised either and run by a Labour Mayor...it seems many posters are overlooking the one massive stinking elephant in the room: The DfT
it is the DfT and wider government that control the agenda and sets the tone. It is them that, imo, prevent the TOC's from doing a deal with the unions that suits their individual commercial needs. The desire to impose a dogmatic and all encompassing solution from the top is the one that is creating greater problems than there need be.
it is the DfT and wider government that control the agenda and sets the tone. It is them that, imo, prevent the TOC's from doing a deal with the unions that suits their individual commercial needs.
Good! The TOCs short term needs means that huge pay rises would be better than a sustained strike - they don’t have to pay the long term costs of caving in but suffer all the costs of the strike.
Free and open negotiation between who? The TOC can’t be left to agree whatever they choose as the DfT is responsible for the long term future of the franchise. The only way a TOC could be free to do what they want is if the staff were all on fixed term contracts and their jobs ended with the franchise (and that would only work if a “no bids so no trains” default was on the table)goodness me. It isn't one or the other. Seeing it as that is what causes problems. It needs to be a free and open negotiation.
I will admit it is difficult to do that when one side is constrained by dogma and the other by stupidity!
Abellio do not have access to what others bid (at least legally). Govia will have heavily been dependedent on the franchise staff to come up with their plan; those staff are now employed by Abellio. Who better than the team that's been doing it for years to sort it out? The fact that it looks a lot like what Govia bid is purely incidental...Might Govia mount a legal challenge if they do that to the point that it puts them in breach?
Abellio do not have access to what others bid (at least legally). Govia will have heavily been dependent on the franchise staff to come up with their plan; those staff are now employed by Abellio. Who better than the team that's been doing it for years to sort it out? The fact that it looks a lot like what Govia bid is purely incidental...