How does it work with crews? Do last nights work back tonight? If so how long of a break do they need? Both trains probably not going to be in to Euston to near midday once they been shunted back and forth to and from the slow lines. Surely that’s not enough rest for the Highlander crew who would have had no sleep.
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Caledonian Sleeper
- Thread starter Essexman
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I always took for granted the time and time again repeated abrevation of CAF. It was only until they came on the sleeper did I understand what people meant.
In all fairness, their MUs aren't bad and do the job well. No problems with them at all. The Mk5s however is just a massive design failure for Sleeper travel. A quick visit to Trip Advisor or a wee chat with anyone onboard will unearth far more negativity than what was present on the Mk3s.
Put it this way, the dunts on the Mk5s ride quality would make the Forth Road bridge blush.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They're OK, but they ride like a cart and the ride is quite noisy. I think it is fair to describe the Class 195, for instance, as a poor man's Class 170 (not that they don't have issues, e.g. iffy build quality and small overhead racks), and the 331 as a poor man's Desiro.
The ride thing seems to be a continuing issue across all UK CAF stock.
MrEd
Member
- Joined
- 13 Jan 2019
- Messages
- 587
It will have to be a Scottish crew northbound tonight as it’s a Friday night and all the crews need to be heading back to base for the weekend (plus most of the London crew are in Scotland after working last nights’ northbound portions). My guess is that the inbound crew (a Scottish crew) will have had their compulsory 9 hours’ rest and will now be working the northbound highlander back (which will probably have had to be delayed due to the 9 hour minimum crew rest). Sometimes when the Scottish crew are severely delayed coming into London, I’ve known spare London crew to be present (where possible) checking passengers in so that they can at least start boarding the highlander at 20:30, then the Scottish crew book on around 9pm and the highlander leaves at about 21:45. I don’t know if this happened tonight, but the down Highlander (according to RTT) was only about 15L leaving so clearly a solution must have been found.
Mordac
Established Member
I still haven't made it into any of the GB CAF stock (332s excepted I guess), but I don't remember noticing any ride quality issues on the NIR units I've travelled on. Would that have something to do with the wider bogies, or is NIR track quality so much better than in GB? I find the latter unlikely.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It quite possibly is the bogies, they are a different design, with 195s (and all the other recent CAF kit i.e. Mk5s) having inside-frame bogies and the Irish units traditional outside-frame ones. There is no ride issue with classes 332 and 333 either, indeed it is particularly good on those units.
I think to pass judgements on units' riding, it is necessary to compare them on the same track. My local service is operated by 321/2, 331 and 333 at speeds up to 80 mph. The 333's are adequate but certainly not "particularly good". The 331's are noticeably rougher/noisier, but neither of the CAF products stands comparison with the BREL units which ride majestically and are only bettered by the 158.
I have also travelled on the new CAF DMU's and TPE mk 5's and they are just as poor as the 331's. The internal ambience is fine but the ride is comparable with a first generation DMU. I haven't sampled the Sleeper or 397's yet but from comments by others it would seem there is a common problem.
I suppose the question is whether the tender documents specified ride parameters and whether CAF have met these.
Last edited by a moderator:
The formations were posted on a gen group again yesterday morning, so here is the latest update
CS01 14-Oct 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 26-Oct 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 23-Nov 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 7-Dec 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 18-Jan 15002-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
CS02 14-Oct 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 26-Oct 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 23-Nov 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 7-Dec 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15306-15214
>>>> 18-Jan 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15306-15330
CS03 14-Oct 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 26-Oct 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 23-Nov 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 7-Dec 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 18-Jan 15008-15102-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
CS04 14-Oct 15007-15105-15205-15314-15333-15332-15331-15330
>>>> 26-Oct 15007-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 23-Nov 15006-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 7-Dec 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 18-Jan 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333
CS05 14-Oct 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 26-Oct 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 23-Nov 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 7-Dec 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 18-Jan 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
CS06 14-Oct 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 26-Oct 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 23-Nov 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 7-Dec 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 18-Jan 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
CS07 14-Oct 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 26-Oct 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 23-Nov 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 7-Dec 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 18-Jan 15010-15107-15214-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305
CS08 14-Oct 15011-15102-15212-15339-15338-15340-15326-15211
>>>> 26-Oct 15011-15102-15212-15339-15338-15340-15326-15211
>>>> 23-Nov 15002-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15326-15211
>>>> 7-Dec 15002-15110-15212-15339-15337-(15338-15326-15211)
>>>> 18-Jan 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15326-15211
Fort William day coaches
14-Oct 15006-15104
26-Oct 15006-15104
23-Nov 15007-15104
7-Dec 15006-15102
18-Jan 15004-15104
Friday night's sleepers
1M11 CS06+CS07
1M16 CS01+CS04
1S25 CS02+CS08
1S26 CS03+CS05
So, the list of coaches not used is 15001, 15301, 15302 and 15336. The other current spares appear to be 15006, 15106, 15210, 15306 and 15340.
CS01 14-Oct 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 26-Oct 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 23-Nov 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 7-Dec 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 18-Jan 15002-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
CS02 14-Oct 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 26-Oct 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 23-Nov 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 7-Dec 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15306-15214
>>>> 18-Jan 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15306-15330
CS03 14-Oct 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 26-Oct 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 23-Nov 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 7-Dec 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 18-Jan 15008-15102-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
CS04 14-Oct 15007-15105-15205-15314-15333-15332-15331-15330
>>>> 26-Oct 15007-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 23-Nov 15006-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 7-Dec 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 18-Jan 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333
CS05 14-Oct 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 26-Oct 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 23-Nov 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 7-Dec 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 18-Jan 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
CS06 14-Oct 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 26-Oct 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 23-Nov 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 7-Dec 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 18-Jan 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
CS07 14-Oct 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 26-Oct 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 23-Nov 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 7-Dec 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 18-Jan 15010-15107-15214-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305
CS08 14-Oct 15011-15102-15212-15339-15338-15340-15326-15211
>>>> 26-Oct 15011-15102-15212-15339-15338-15340-15326-15211
>>>> 23-Nov 15002-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15326-15211
>>>> 7-Dec 15002-15110-15212-15339-15337-(15338-15326-15211)
>>>> 18-Jan 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15326-15211
Fort William day coaches
14-Oct 15006-15104
26-Oct 15006-15104
23-Nov 15007-15104
7-Dec 15006-15102
18-Jan 15004-15104
Friday night's sleepers
1M11 CS06+CS07
1M16 CS01+CS04
1S25 CS02+CS08
1S26 CS03+CS05
So, the list of coaches not used is 15001, 15301, 15302 and 15336. The other current spares appear to be 15006, 15106, 15210, 15306 and 15340.
Last edited:
TimboM
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2016
- Messages
- 3,732
15001/301/302/336 haven't entered service yet, but have been on mileage accumulation/proving runs to Carlisle and back to Polmadie a few times since Christmas.
15006/106 were the FTW day coaches swapped out by 15004/15104 on Fri night.
15340 was the coach that took a firm whack from 73969 during the morning shunts at Fort William back in November. Would appear to still be under repair.
Thanks for these updates JonathanH - I find them so helpful. Of the the only five I've not yet seen, one's a Fort William day coach, and the other four haven't been used in service yet. So no point traipsing to Euston late eve / early morning, or hanging around at Crewe to see them. Have the four not yet used in service been accepted into service. It would be great if you could continue to update these every month or so please. Thanks again.
BRX
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2008
- Messages
- 3,631
If (aside from the FW day coaches) there are only three coaches that can be out of action at any time, compared to over 60 in daily use, that must mean that making any repairs or modifications is very slow. Are they basically trying to fix everything that's not working in the times between services?
John Bishop
Member
Seems like a policy change on the traction for Highlander portions. 66/73 combos for the foreseeable by all accounts. Is this change on the back of recent political discussions regarding the ongoing CS issues?
Aberdeen portion could previously handle single 73 as well as FW.
Aberdeen portion could previously handle single 73 as well as FW.
xotGD
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2017
- Messages
- 6,085
Fill the seats with cranks over the quieter winter months!
Goldfish62
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,034
Inside frame bogies don't help. As Ian Walmsley said recently it's simply inexcusable sticking them under sleeper stock.
Siemens and to a lesser extent Hitachi spent some time optimising their suspension for the relatively dodgy UK track. Perhaps CAF didn't.
185143
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Mar 2013
- Messages
- 4,509
I did the Fort William portion last night and this morning, 73968 doing the honours on both trips. No 66 to be seen.
66707 came off the Aberdeen portion on Friday morning and was left at Aberdeen.
66733 which had been on Fort William workings worked to Inverness on Saturday morning replacing 66706 which had worked to Inverness all week.
Today, 66721 has gone to Inverness by the looks of things with 73s working alone on the Fort William and Aberdeen portions - 66733 staying at Craigentinny.
Far north 37
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2011
- Messages
- 1,951
Yes back to a single 73 on the fort william last few days another celebrity 66 at inverness this morning 66721 in the white london underground livery.
DEAN MURPHY
Member
- Joined
- 31 Aug 2011
- Messages
- 236
Is it likely that there will be a 66/73 combo on the Inverness to Euston (as far as Edinburgh) on Thursday this week?
Far north 37
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2011
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- 1,951
I would say more than likely.
GrimShady
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Dec 2016
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- 1,740
Happened to me multiple times and quiet rudely too despite arriving very early one morning! I see they're still up the old tricks again!
47271
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2015
- Messages
- 2,983
You wonder if anyone leading the design on behalf of Serco would've had thought to ask CAF to consider this. They probably looked at the drawings and said 'great it's got wheels', and then moved on to something else.
BRX
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2008
- Messages
- 3,631
The southbound from inverness looks like it's in a bit of bother? Nearly two hours down leaving Kingussie.
Loco fault apparently, it's now 145 late leaving Penrith.
CS also reporting:
Caledonian Sleeper said:
Dundee because they don't detach the Fort William coaches from the Aberdeen portion. It is the easiest transfer point on the Aberdeen route for travel to Fort William.
John Bishop
Member
Do we know the reason for the FW set not going to destination?
Presumably, given the problem to the southbound Inverness portion, they are short of locomotives.
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BRX
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2008
- Messages
- 3,631
It seems like since the full mk5 switchover, it's been revealed that there aren't quite enough 73s for a fully reliable service. Or is there a short term shortage that's causing the issues?