Jamesrob637
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06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport was 6-car today but the main focus on the Stockport to Manchester route this morning was delays caused by overrunning engineering works near Cheadle.
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TPE services allocated for Double units
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Killingworth
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36 short forms showing today at present.
Jamesrob637
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Including both the 5 and 6 something from Cleethorpes. That'll be fun over the Peak District!
Jamesrob637
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06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport has scored 1, maximum 2 out of 5 this week (I didn't see it on Tuesday as it didn't pass through Stockport due to the train breakdown at Piccadilly)
On a school report, that equates to "Could do better!"
On a school report, that equates to "Could do better!"
Tuesday was 3 car as well.
Killingworth
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But it's an improvement since January 2019 in that we can now see that more of these trains are supposed to have 6 coaches.
Which reminds me.
When the South Transpennine trains do manage to be 6 car, how are they managing at the Airport? Before the December timetable change there was talk that it could only be managed - from the point of view of platform occupancy at the Airport - by dropping a unit off at Piccadilly while one set went to the Airport, but since the timetable change all the 6 car trains have gone all the way to the airport. Has something else been dropped or has some clever timetabling made it work?
When the South Transpennine trains do manage to be 6 car, how are they managing at the Airport? Before the December timetable change there was talk that it could only be managed - from the point of view of platform occupancy at the Airport - by dropping a unit off at Piccadilly while one set went to the Airport, but since the timetable change all the 6 car trains have gone all the way to the airport. Has something else been dropped or has some clever timetabling made it work?
johnnychips
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Is that right? I could swear that since Dec 15th (?) the announcement at Sheffield has still announced the splitting of the 0708 (?) at Piccadilly even if it’s only three cars. I stand to be corrected though.
Killingworth
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Most drop off the forward section from Cleethorpes at Piccadilly so if going to the Airport make sure you're in the rear 3 coaches. If you have a reservation it will probably be in the first unit which usually won't go on to the airport! (edited)
If coming away from the Airport you'll usually be in a 3 car train - but not always! One or two may catch you out by being six. You may think you're in the first coach. At Piccadilly it reverses and usually will pick up the other three, so now you'll be in the 3rd coach!
Those not paying full attention will hear an announcement that passengers for Dore should proceed to the front coach. Ah, but I was in the front 1st coach, and now we're going backwards so I need to be in the new new front coach which was coach 3. No matter, it just means I've ended at the far end of the platform - should have stayed where I was. Meanwhile in the second unit all those in coaches 4, 5 and 6 wanting to leave at Dore need to be in the 4th, which leads to a scrum at the south end of the platform.
Things are getting better when we actually get 6 car trains, ASDO works, and they're all fully manned and run to time. Platform lengthening may come by 2023 at Dore and eventually at the Airport.
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They haven't. Only 3 or so trains morning and afternoon are booked to go to the Airport as 6, the rest all detach and attach at Piccadilly.
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Greybeard33
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Today the 1353 Airport to Cleethorpes (3-car) lost two minutes at Stockport. It arrived in the station full and standing, and the boarding passengers had difficulty pushing their way into the jam-packed vestibules. Not helped by one set of doors being out of use.
I guess the amount of Friday half day working, plus weekend commuting, has effectively made this a peak service. By the time it got to Sheffield it was 13L.
I guess the amount of Friday half day working, plus weekend commuting, has effectively made this a peak service. By the time it got to Sheffield it was 13L.
Friday afternoons are bad in both directions now, very much because people finish work earlier or travel home from Uni/go on holiday etc.
Although the delay was due to 1L11 (EMR Liverpool-Norwich) having engine problems, was 40 late in front of 1B80. Would've arrived Sheffield pretty much on time otherwise.
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Killingworth
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The EMR train was sent round the Dore curve so many who'd been waiting for that would have optimistically headed for the TPE rather than pin their hopes to the next East Midlands as it would probably be late too. It was, but only by about 11 minutes.
Greybeard33
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Ah, thanks for the explanations! I was not at Stockport early enough to see the sick EMR, but I imagine many of those on Stockport Platform 1 were Sheffield passengers who had been evicted from it to transfer to the TPE. Perhaps that service ordinarily would not justify a 6-car.
Killingworth
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If regular users could be certain of a train turning up to timetable and with a choice of seats to sit In more would be attracted to use them. The train capacity issue between Manchester and Sheffield is near resolution, but not yet. Northern's use of 150s gives a better option than an all stations stopping Pacers yet they're still rammed full at times. Doubled up units are needed The EMR stock issues mean anything goes at present, 2, 3 or 4 coaches of what's available.
When TPE's 6 coach trains are finally operating without any short forming some wil soon be full, but most will feel very spacious.
Resolving track capacity issues on all lines wil help correct the reliability problems. That wil take an unknown number of years.
Jamesrob637
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13:05 York to Airport was a double at Deansgate yesterday, however couldn't see whether all coaches were in use.
Today, 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport will be 3-car, so no full marks this week for that one. Will the hour earlier service score a perfect 5/5?!
Today, 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport will be 3-car, so no full marks this week for that one. Will the hour earlier service score a perfect 5/5?!
The 06:26 should have been 6 but faults occurred when coupled so it had to run as 3. All other South services showing as running with their scheduled number of coaches.
You would have thought so, but this was not my experience when reserved through to the airport last year when only a couple of diagrams were doubles. Had to get myself up the platform at Piccadilly from the front coach with luggage against the flow of a morning peak commute, to find no room left in the luggage racks of the other unit. Left my suitcase in the rack in the (empty) First as bags can't be penalty fared AFAIK.
All this was announced in detail at each station in good time, but only in English, which is not ideal for an Airport service.
Jamesrob637
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Could have sworn that the 16:53 Airport to Cleethorpes was on Journey Check this morning but it's no longer there?
Killingworth
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You're right. I've corrected the section you've quoted as it was wrong, sorry.
The plain fact is we are totally unprepared for even a doubling of demand for rail services almost everywhere, a realistic possibility, and more, if we want to see any significant modal shift from road.
On languages it's hard to know which should be introduced, there are so many to choose from.
One of the passengers confused about where he should be going was North American so maybe language is a moot point.
Jamesrob637
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Have both the 05:05 and 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport actually managed 6 today?!
Jamesrob637
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Not a perfect 5/5 for 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport this week - 3 today but consolation of at least being on Journey Check.
Jamesrob637
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I'll give 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport half a mark today - 6-car but the rear three locked out whilst everybody was crammed into the front three!
Triumph
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There is a few more than 3 or so 6 car cars booked to and from MIA!!
The following are booked 6 cars to/from the Airport
0653/0753/0853/0953
1653/1753/1953
1B66 0653 attaches at MIA and 1B95 arriving at night is a 6 car which splits.
This is what the diagrams are booked to do, but with the unit shortages, it may be awhile before you see some of these.
The only ones that drop off and attach to CLE services at MAN are
1B79 which drops off a unit to attach to 1B84 in the afternoon.
Greybeard33
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In RTT, the following eastbound services have a note "service gains coaches here" against the Piccadilly stop:
1B82/84/86/96, d Airport 1453/1553/1653/2153.
Westbound, there is a "service divides here" note for 1B65/69/79/85/91, arr Airport 0826/1025/1525/1825/2125. Also 1B61, arr 0627, gains coaches to take to the Airport.
Of course, this does not mean that TPE has all these services diagrammed as doubles. But it indicates that there is scope in the Working Timetable for them to be strengthened before the May timetable change. TPE must have requested these Piccadilly platform bookings for splitting/joining when the current timetable was compiled.
Triumph
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I missed a couple:
1B82 attaches to 2M74 arr 1440 at MAN and goes forward as a 6 car.
1B96 attaches to 1B93 at MAN and goes forward as a 6 car.
1B84 & 1B86 areas mentioned in post 295 above.
Killingworth
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1B66 06.53 Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes and 1B85 15.26 from Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport werre 6 cars today, although not in the order shown on the screens at Scunthorpe for my return journey . What a pleasure to be on trains that were on time and with a choice of seats.
Jamesrob637
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I've got to buy a new hat on the weekend as I've eaten so many at just seeing 6-car formations through Stockport even if 3 were out of service
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