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Merseyrail most punctual' rail network in UK for second year running

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185143

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I regularly commute with them and have been using them my whole life, it was a bit grim 20odd years ago, but don't have any problems. I also have no problem with the trains being so old, they've proven trusty workhorses and look fairly tidy most of the time. Let's hope the 777s prove to be as fantastic as has been promised..
Googles who ran Merseyrail between 1997 and 2003.

Why am I not surprised in the slightest that it was Arriva!
 
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Crepello

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From BBC:

Anyway, Like the picture of 507017 in the original livery that the BBC used ;)

That was indeed the original Merseyrail livery, but the 507s/8s spent their first ~15 years in BR blue/grey. Occurred to me when I commuted on Merseyrail in the early 90s, it was possibly the last part of the BR network where the entire fleet still wore pre-privatisation, pre-sectorisation clothing.

Given said fleet is now among the oldest in daily service, I think the announcement is commendable. As for it being one of the simplest networks... I googled performance on the Waterloo & City, before noting it's a few years since that was a BR operation!
 

frodshamfella

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Credit .........… seriously, where they constantly skip stations and run fast when delayed to be on time at destination but skip 8 stations en route... cooking the books a bit I would say.

I don't agree, I think Merseyrail offer a really good service,. Of course they have problems from time to time, and are using very old stock, but on the whole, it's thumbs up from me, they deserve it.
 

jamesst

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Unsurprisingly they made a right mess of it.

Not strictly true.
Mtl holdings were the first company after privatisation, they did make an utterly mess of it with cut backs everywhere they could think of.
Arriva took over from them and actually returned some of the units mothballed by the previous operator into service.
 

C J Snarzell

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I work in a control environment and as someone has stated the Merseyrail network is one of the smallest in the country - I believe they are responsible for 67 stations.

Its a strange one, but the main Wigan North Western to Lime Street line is serviced by Northern and TPE, and not Merseyrail - even though all but two stations on the route fall under the Merseyrail umbrella. The yellow M is almost as legendary as that other golden M!!!

Being a small TOC - it is far more manageable and self contained when issues arise. Having worked with Northern for a short time I can say part of their problem is that their network is huge.

I've said on another thread that Merseyrail should really be given parts of the Northern territory to cover that may ease the pressure that Northern are under. Unfortunately, the idea on paper is good but sadly the difficulties are massive in training staff, adapting units from one TOC to another and of course there is too much red tape and logistical issues to solve. However lines that Merseyrail MAY be able to assist with in the future are -

Central Line being returned to Merseyrail - this includes services to Wigan North Western, Warrington Stations and possibly Manchester.

Kirkby to Wigan Wallgate (Merseyrail already cover this line from Lime St to Kirkby)

Southport to Wigan Wallgate

Ormskirk to Preston (like Kirkby, passengers have to switch from Merseyrail to Northern services, or vice versa, if they go beyond either side of Ormskirk Station)

Preston - West Coast Line stations south (Leyland, Euxton Balshaw Lane, North Western) - as far as Warrington Bank Quay. Avanti West Coast don't stop at the smaller stations.

Some of the Wirral services could continue to Runcorn, then Warrington BQ after Ellesmere Port (calling at the smaller stations). There's then the possibility of a return service back to Lime St along the Central Line via Earlestown and St Helens Junction (this would make the service a long round trip!!!)

CJ
 

Meerkat

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It doesn’t make sense to switch lines that are run from the other end and both ends are outside Merseyside!
But yes to Skelmersdale, Warrington and Wigan via St Helens, Warrington from Lime St and Central.
But this all needs wiring if the batteries have been canned....
 

Djgr

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I work in a control environment and as someone has stated the Merseyrail network is one of the smallest in the country - I believe they are responsible for 67 stations.

Its a strange one, but the main Wigan North Western to Lime Street line is serviced by Northern and TPE, and not Merseyrail - even though all but two stations on the route fall under the Merseyrail umbrella. The yellow M is almost as legendary as that other golden M!!!

Being a small TOC - it is far more manageable and self contained when issues arise. Having worked with Northern for a short time I can say part of their problem is that their network is huge.

I've said on another thread that Merseyrail should really be given parts of the Northern territory to cover that may ease the pressure that Northern are under. Unfortunately, the idea on paper is good but sadly the difficulties are massive in training staff, adapting units from one TOC to another and of course there is too much red tape and logistical issues to solve. However lines that Merseyrail MAY be able to assist with in the future are -

Central Line being returned to Merseyrail - this includes services to Wigan North Western, Warrington Stations and possibly Manchester.

Kirkby to Wigan Wallgate (Merseyrail already cover this line from Lime St to Kirkby)

Southport to Wigan Wallgate

Ormskirk to Preston (like Kirkby, passengers have to switch from Merseyrail to Northern services, or vice versa, if they go beyond either side of Ormskirk Station)

Preston - West Coast Line stations south (Leyland, Euxton Balshaw Lane, North Western) - as far as Warrington Bank Quay. Avanti West Coast don't stop at the smaller stations.

Some of the Wirral services could continue to Runcorn, then Warrington BQ after Ellesmere Port (calling at the smaller stations). There's then the possibility of a return service back to Lime St along the Central Line via Earlestown and St Helens Junction (this would make the service a long round trip!!!)

CJ

As a general principle I am in favour of transferring routes across from failing to successful TOCs and a good starting point would be to lob off routes at all of the extremities of Northern's operations.

The other interesting point is the idea that Merseyrail is of necessity a third rail electric only operator. This is arguably an invention of the privatisation project and should certainly be challenged.
 

The Prisoner

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Merseyrail was removed from the franchising system in 2002 and operation is awarded directly under the PTE. Surely the way ahead is that regional commuter services in Merseyside and Manchester are devolved to be run by a JV of GMPTE and Merseytravel. Same could then happen for a West Yorks/South Yorks operating area and the North East with inter-region services either passing to a "Northern" style super PTE or other such entity. So you would have "Transport for North West" (Liverpool/Manchester), "Transport for Yorkshire" (W Yorks/S Yorks) and "Transport for North East".

Regional non-metro councils could come in with their region (so Lancs into TfNW etc) to allow for an integrated approach or have one umbrella entity working alongside TfNW, TfY etc coordinating regional expresses and non PTE areas (i.e current Northern "Connect", Cumbria, N Yorks, TPE etc).

Hmmm. Think I have described PTE and Regional Railways of old!!!! And not dissimilar to TfW, TfL etc.

The logical progression is that this is how "franchising" looks in the future - geographical non-commercial brands where devolved government merely uses private companies to operate how they tell them to. So not franchising at all - management contracts.
 

L401CJF

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Googles who ran Merseyrail between 1997 and 2003.

Why am I not surprised in the slightest that it was Arriva!

Arriva only inherited it when they bought out the financially screwed MTL (Merseyside Transport Limited) around 2000, it was apparently taking on the train operations that killed off MTL for good due to the cost. As said by another member they made cuts left right and centre and had a number of units stored across the network. A few of the units never worked on Merseyside again and 3 ended up with Silverlink the rest with South Eastern. I believe 508108/110 were both stored and were the first to get refurbished around 2003. If I remember 508123 was another, one coach of which got refurbished in a prototype style and put on show to the public at Southport for a while before the main refurb program begun.
 

gazzaa2

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It's not cooking the books anyway. The train is still recorded as late.

I've regularly used them and punctuality very good, the only problems i've really had is when it's more than just a few minutes late they do start skipping stations (which is factored into the punctuality percentage).

You only usually tend to get cancellations when it's something serious like a 1 under.
 

Bletchleyite

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I've regularly used them and punctuality very good, the only problems i've really had is when it's more than just a few minutes late they do start skipping stations (which is factored into the punctuality percentage).

You only usually tend to get cancellations when it's something serious like a 1 under.

Interestingly, that's a totally different way of operating than BR used to use - they never, ever skipped stations (unless a fatality or other emergency closed the station), instead they would cancel a round trip to get a unit and crew back on time.
 

L401CJF

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I've regularly used them and punctuality very good, the only problems i've really had is when it's more than just a few minutes late they do start skipping stations (which is factored into the punctuality percentage).

You only usually tend to get cancellations when it's something serious like a 1 under.

I will never forget about 6/7 years ago, I was on a full and standing 6 car Chester bound service from Liverpool on a Saturday evening. There was some event on in Liverpool if I remember rightly hence why it was so busy. It was about 8 minutes late, arrived at Hamilton Square where another 20 or so people were waiting to board the already full train. I noticed the platform display said the destination was 'Capenhurst' which was odd. The internal displays then went blank, the platform display changed to 'Stand clear of the platform edge' or similar. The driver then announced on the tannoy that he had been told to terminate at Hamilton Square due to late running, and all passengers should leave the train and any passengers for Chester should board the next train (Ellesmere Port) and change at Hooton. I heard him on the radio in the cab prior to this (i was sat behind the cab) something to do with the amount of people he had onboard so presumably saying it would be a bad idea to terminate it seeing how full it was. The internal displays then changed to 'Not in Service' and everybody was turfed off!

I have never seen platform 2 at Hamilton Square so full, and much to everybodys upset the Ellesmere Port train arrived, a 3 car, full to the doors. I decided to ditch the journey, shot down to P3 jumped a train to Conway Park and caught a bus home instead.

To be fair I had never previously, or since, experienced anything like this on the network. As mentioned by a few others, I have had one skip all the stations too between Birkenhead Central and Hooton due to being a few minutes late but I wasn't too bothered by it as It worked out quicker to go straight to Hooton , skip Bromborough, change to the other side at Hooton and catch a train a minute later back to Bromborough than it was to wait for the one behind.
 

frodshamfella

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I work in a control environment and as someone has stated the Merseyrail network is one of the smallest in the country - I believe they are responsible for 67 stations.

Its a strange one, but the main Wigan North Western to Lime Street line is serviced by Northern and TPE, and not Merseyrail - even though all but two stations on the route fall under the Merseyrail umbrella. The yellow M is almost as legendary as that other golden M!!!

Being a small TOC - it is far more manageable and self contained when issues arise. Having worked with Northern for a short time I can say part of their problem is that their network is huge.

I've said on another thread that Merseyrail should really be given parts of the Northern territory to cover that may ease the pressure that Northern are under. Unfortunately, the idea on paper is good but sadly the difficulties are massive in training staff, adapting units from one TOC to another and of course there is too much red tape and logistical issues to solve. However lines that Merseyrail MAY be able to assist with in the future are -

Central Line being returned to Merseyrail - this includes services to Wigan North Western, Warrington Stations and possibly Manchester.

Kirkby to Wigan Wallgate (Merseyrail already cover this line from Lime St to Kirkby)

Southport to Wigan Wallgate

Ormskirk to Preston (like Kirkby, passengers have to switch from Merseyrail to Northern services, or vice versa, if they go beyond either side of Ormskirk Station)

Preston - West Coast Line stations south (Leyland, Euxton Balshaw Lane, North Western) - as far as Warrington Bank Quay. Avanti West Coast don't stop at the smaller stations.

Some of the Wirral services could continue to Runcorn, then Warrington BQ after Ellesmere Port (calling at the smaller stations). There's then the possibility of a return service back to Lime St along the Central Line via Earlestown and St Helens Junction (this would make the service a long round trip!!!)

CJ

It certainly to me makes sense to extend from.Kirkby to Skelmersdale and Wigan Wallgate and provide a decent service.on that stretch of line. Same thing for Ormskirk to Southport. ( plus sort the Burscough curves out ).
 

C J Snarzell

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There isn't actually a station in Skelmersdale (the nearest one is Up Holland - and even that is in Pimbo village!!!)

I believe there are plans to provide Skem with a station serviced by Merseyrail because of local investments in the area. West Lancashire Council are clearly trying to expand the industrial side of Skem as one of the biggest business parks in the North West and clearly a rail network would attract interest and also create better links for new homes and a proposed new shopping centre (bye bye the Cony!!!)

Unfortunately, to do this would mean building a new rail line to service Skem as the Kirkby to Wigan line is too far out of the area. Clearly something like this would take years to take shape.

CJ
 

Bletchleyite

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any passengers for Chester should board the next train (Ellesmere Port) and change at Hooton

"any passengers for Chester should board the next train (Ellesmere Port) and stand in the cold at Hooton waiting for the following through Chester", I think they meant. There's no Chester-Hooton shuttle, nor would I expect them to put one on on that occasion.
 

Bletchleyite

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Unfortunately, to do this would mean building a new rail line to service Skem as the Kirkby to Wigan line is too far out of the area. Clearly something like this would take years to take shape.

The plan I believe involves a branch off the Kirkby-Wigan line slightly further along, across fields (as that's all that's there) and along an alignment replacing one of the roads to the old Glenburn High site next to the "Conny" (is it impossible to hear that in anything other than a thick Scouse accent? :) )
 

Bikeman78

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From a passengers perspective it’s great, less chance of a non-stop service due to late running.

But there are waits outside Chester station whilst one leaves (3-4 mins) And a slower journey to Liverpool (up to 5 mins longer) with standing time en route, being the only downsides.
Some of the extra time is eaten up by every train stopping at Capenhurst. As you say, an on time train has to wait outside Chester in the Autumn.
 

frodshamfella

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There isn't actually a station in Skelmersdale (the nearest one is Up Holland - and even that is in Pimbo village!!!)

I believe there are plans to provide Skem with a station serviced by Merseyrail because of local investments in the area. West Lancashire Council are clearly trying to expand the industrial side of Skem as one of the biggest business parks in the North West and clearly a rail network would attract interest and also create better links for new homes and a proposed new shopping centre (bye bye the Cony!!!)

Unfortunately, to do this would mean building a new rail line to service Skem as the Kirkby to Wigan line is too far out of the area. Clearly something like this would take years to take shape.

CJ

Was referring to the plans Merseyrail already have to link Skem, its been on the boil for some time.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Its a strange one, but the main Wigan North Western to Lime Street line is serviced by Northern and TPE, and not Merseyrail - even though all but two stations on the route fall under the Merseyrail umbrella. The yellow M is almost as legendary as that other golden M!!!

You got the brands mixed up (not difficult!).
Merseytravel is the PTE that controls services in the Merseyside area (and a few places outside), and brands all its stations with the yellow M.
Merseyrail is the TOC for the 3rd rail electric lines (Northern and Wirral) via Liverpool Central - nothing else. They work for Merseytravel.

The Liverpool City Region Mayor (Steve Rotheram) controls Merseytravel (and therefore Merseyrail), plus also transport in surrounding places like Halton, as part of the Liverpool City Region deal.
That also funded the new Liverpool-Runcorn-Chester service (operated by TfW).
Merseytravel is also going to own the new fleet of class 777s for Merseyrail.

It's possible the City Line (not Central Line) services to Wigan/Warrington/Manchester could be devolved to the city region body, or equally it could go to Andy Burnham and the Greater Manchester equivalent.
TfN (Transport for the North, based in Leeds) will also have a role in any transfer or break-up of the Northern franchise.
The risk is that places like Warrington, Preston and Chester might get screwed in this process because they are not in any "City Region" or PTE area.

Merseyrail does pretty well on reliability, and probably will next year too.
After that it will be down to the reliability of the new 777s.
 

Bletchleyite

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You got the brands mixed up (not difficult!).
Merseytravel is the PTE that controls services in the Merseyside area (and a few places outside), and brands all its stations with the yellow M.
Merseyrail is the TOC for the 3rd rail electric lines (Northern and Wirral) via Liverpool Central - nothing else. They work for Merseytravel.

No, you did :) All heavy rail services subsidised by Merseytravel are branded Merseyrail, including those which are operated by Northern. The branding isn't quite as heavy as it was (they used to be operated by yellow liveried Pacers/150s and be announced at Lime St as Merseyrail services) but that has not been wholly abandoned. Obviously some services are only "Merseyrail services" for part of their length (inside the boundaries). This concept isn't unusual in other countries either - for instance in Germany in the Hamburger Verkehrsverbund area a number of RegionalExpress services showed "HVV bis <end station>".

The TOC is Merseyrail Electrics (2002) Ltd. Though the use of the separate "Merseyrail Electrics" branding seems to have ceased, and they generally just refer to their dedicated ticketing as "Northern and Wirral Lines Only", except this rather confusing item: https://www.merseyrail.org/tickets-passes/season-tickets/railpass.aspx
 

Eccles1983

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No they aren't all branded merseyrail at all.

Merseyrail is the merseyrail electrics* (Northern and Wirral lines) part only. Anything else is branded by the company running it over the city lines/borderlands lines. It's well known that merseyrail don't run on the city line. The city line is the only part of merseytravel that was excepted when the whole of merseyrail was taken out of franchising in the 2000's

Merseytravel is the pte that oversees the lot.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It might have been different in the past, but I'm not convinced Merseyrail refers today to anything more than the Merseyrail Electrics 3rd rail TOC routes.
https://www.liverpoolcityregion-ca.gov.uk/what-we-do/transport/
New trains for the Merseyrail network
Our current fleet of trains have been on the Merseyrail network since the late 1970s. They’re getting more expensive to maintain and won’t be able to cater for future passenger growth.
The new state-of-the-art trains, being built by Swiss firm Stadler as part of a £460 million programme led by Merseytravel on behalf of the Metro Mayor and City Region Combined Authority, are due to start running in 2020.
The project will also bring a direct economic boost to the City Region estimated to be around £70 million per year, plus 1,000 new jobs, as well as supporting wider
For good or ill, it's the City Region that now holds the cards (and the funding) for the whole area.
 

urbophile

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It might have been different in the past, but I'm not convinced Merseyrail refers today to anything more than the Merseyrail Electrics 3rd rail TOC routes.
https://www.liverpoolcityregion-ca.gov.uk/what-we-do/transport/

For good or ill, it's the City Region that now holds the cards (and the funding) for the whole area.
It's still ambiguous. Stations within the city region (or at least, Merseyside) are branded in Merseyrail livery (including the word Merseyrail, not Merseytravel, on station name boards). If you have a Merseytravel Saveaway ticket you can use it at any of these stations; if you have a Merseyrail Day Saver you can only use it on the Northern and Wirral lines. I don't know what the innocent punter, especially one from outside the region or less clued up on railway technicalities, makes of it. Having a universal house style for logos, colour schemes, etc (though they are less disciplined when it comes to typefaces) makes a lot of sense in some ways, but in this case it is confusing.
 

Mogz

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Merseyrail have a long history of getting their money’s worth out of the stock.

The oldest of the original fourth-rail Mersey Railway electric trains ran from 1903 to 1957! 54 years!

The oldest of the next generation of units, the LMS Class 503 trains “only” clocked up 47 years (1938-1985).

The 507/508 stock still has life in it yet by that standard!
 

modernrail

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Merseyrail always seems to have lots of generally friendly and helpful staff on the Northern Line platforms at Liverpool Central. I suspect that this is key to keeping that very grubby part of the station, which is far too small and really needs another platform (for some terminating services) new faster escalators etc, moving. I am generally impressed that they manage to encourage and help passengers onto the trains even when the station os very busy. There are lessons for platforms 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly where the current attitude is generally 'shout at' rather than 'help'.

That said, I have noticed that Southport services are consistently 3-5 minutes late recently and the cause is unclear. Maybe the junction down at Allerton is causing problems because of that lot at Northern?

They should take a leaf out of the book of the Scandi's at Central. I have been to a few stations where the outer walls are bare rock and they have cleaned them up/sealed them and project all things Scandinavian onto them - so mainly calming trees. You could have a lot of fun with that in a creative and historic city like Liverpool.

I would love to see the same on the cuttings into Lime Street. Think images of the cuttings being built, Rocket etc.
 

S&CLER

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Merseyrail always seems to have lots of generally friendly and helpful staff on the Northern Line platforms at Liverpool Central. I suspect that this is key to keeping that very grubby part of the station, which is far too small and really needs another platform (for some terminating services) new faster escalators etc, moving. I am generally impressed that they manage to encourage and help passengers onto the trains even when the station os very busy. There are lessons for platforms 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly where the current attitude is generally 'shout at' rather than 'help'.

That said, I have noticed that Southport services are consistently 3-5 minutes late recently and the cause is unclear. Maybe the junction down at Allerton is causing problems because of that lot at Northern?

They should take a leaf out of the book of the Scandi's at Central. I have been to a few stations where the outer walls are bare rock and they have cleaned them up/sealed them and project all things Scandinavian onto them - so mainly calming trees. You could have a lot of fun with that in a creative and historic city like Liverpool.

I would love to see the same on the cuttings into Lime Street. Think images of the cuttings being built, Rocket etc.

I agree about the helpful staff, especially when it comes to wheelchair ramp assistance, which they have got down to a practised turn up and go routine (but it will no longer be needed with the new trains). I counted up to 6 wheelchairs on the 16:13 from Southport on some occasions when I used to take a disabled friend back from town to Birkdale twice a week. One thing I felt was particularly unfair during disruption on Northern was that, since Northern had no staff at Ormskirk or Southport, they left Merseyrail men and women to carry the can for the failings of a TOC that isn't even their employer (it's just "the railway" to your average commuter). The comment I heard more than once from staff was that "they [Northern] never tell us anything".
 

Bletchleyite

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They should take a leaf out of the book of the Scandi's at Central. I have been to a few stations where the outer walls are bare rock and they have cleaned them up/sealed them and project all things Scandinavian onto them - so mainly calming trees. You could have a lot of fun with that in a creative and historic city like Liverpool.

Started a thread about that sort of thing here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/improving-liverpool-central-low-level.199138/
 
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