Further RMT strike action on SWR [latest action suspended]

Edders23 · 23 Jan 2020

From the BBC news website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51227305#

Staff at South Western Railway (SWR) have voted to hold more strikes as part of a dispute over the future of guards.

The walkouts were supported by more than four-fifths of staff who chose to vote, on a turnout of 59%.

The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) has not yet announced any strike dates.

SWR, which is introducing new trains that allow drivers to operate the doors instead of guards, said it was disappointed with the result.

This is the sixth time RMT members have been balloted in a dispute that has been running for two and a half years.

won't bother posting the rest as we can get the gist so dates to be announced :rolleyes:

but will this achieve anything this time or is it more misery for commuters

RailUK Forums

thenorthern · 23 Jan 2020

Both sides just won't back down.

northernbelle · 23 Jan 2020

Edders23 said:
From the BBC news website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51227305#

Staff at South Western Railway (SWR) have voted to hold more strikes as part of a dispute over the future of guards.

The walkouts were supported by more than four-fifths of staff who chose to vote, on a turnout of 59%.

The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) has not yet announced any strike dates.

SWR, which is introducing new trains that allow drivers to operate the doors instead of guards, said it was disappointed with the result.

This is the sixth time RMT members have been balloted in a dispute that has been running for two and a half years.

won't bother posting the rest as we can get the gist so dates to be announced but will this achieve anything this time or is it more misery for commuters

Four-fifths of 59% is 47% - meaning less than half of eligible members (not even the entire grade given the number who have left the Union) have actually voted for this.

Glenn1969 · 23 Jan 2020

I thought under the proposed guidelines by the Tories this kind of strike would be illegal due to it not being a majority of the total no. of union members

45107 · 23 Jan 2020

northernbelle said:
Four-fifths of 59% is 47% - meaning less than half of eligible members (not even the entire grade given the number who have left the Union) have actually voted for this.

The ballot is of union members, not people in the grade.
And how does that percentage compare with recent elections/referendums in the UK ?
I would suggest that it is a higher number in favour of the action.

45107 · 23 Jan 2020

Glenn1969 said:
I thought under the proposed guidelines by the Tories this kind of strike would be illegal due to it not being a majority of the total no. of union members

The key word being ‘proposed’.
You can’t apply a proposed law until it has been passed in Parliament, nor can it be applied retrospectively.

3141 · 23 Jan 2020

45107 said:
The ballot is of union members, not people in the grade.
And how does that percentage compare with recent elections/referendums in the UK ?
I would suggest that it is a higher number in favour of the action.

67.4% of the registered electorate voted in December. 47.2% of those who voted, voted Conservative. Not that that has much relevance to the numbers who voted for further action at SWR, even as a red herring.

JamesT · 23 Jan 2020

Glenn1969 said:
I thought under the proposed guidelines by the Tories this kind of strike would be illegal due to it not being a majority of the total no. of union members

Are there any further proposed thresholds? The Trade Union Act that came into force in 2017 brought in minimums of 50% turnout and 40% of eligible members in favour for a ballot to be valid. This vote has met those thresholds.

northernbelle · 23 Jan 2020

45107 said:
The ballot is of union members, not people in the grade.
And how does that percentage compare with recent elections/referendums in the UK ?
I would suggest that it is a higher number in favour of the action.

Exactly. If you include the entire grade, even fewer voted in favour of a strike.

theking · 23 Jan 2020

If it's true the drivers have doo in their contracts it's about time they just gave the guards 90 days notice and changed their contracts this has gone on long enough and is damaging the whole of the rail industry.

Bletchleyite · 23 Jan 2020

theking said:
If it's true the drivers have doo in their contracts it's about time they just gave the guards 90 days notice and changed their contracts this has gone on long enough and is damaging the whole of the rail industry.

The trouble with doing that is that the existing units aren't DOO capable. The reason Southern could do it was that theirs already were.

Flying Snail · 24 Jan 2020

northernbelle said:
Exactly. If you include the entire grade, even fewer voted in favour of a strike.

If you include the entire electorate only around 1/3 voted conservative, the fact that 2/3 of the country have offered them no electoral mandate will not give them a single pause in forcing through their agenda. Including ironically this supposedly pro-democracy stance on the internal workings of an organisation they are politically opposed to.

mpthomson · 24 Jan 2020

The amount of whataboutery being displayed in this thread is remarkable....

Chris M · 24 Jan 2020

northernbelle said:
Exactly. If you include the entire grade, even fewer voted in favour of a strike.

Those who are not members of this union were not eligible to vote, so we have no way of knowing how many of them support or do not support the action - it could be none of them, it could be all of them, it could be literally any other number between those extremes. It is impossible to know and so it is entirely wrong to imply they are all opposed.

Socanxdis · 24 Jan 2020

Will RMT call for 2 months strike up-to Easter? This is getting silly.

westv · 24 Jan 2020

How long did the Southern dispute last for?

NoMorePacers · 24 Jan 2020

westv said:
How long did the Southern dispute last for?

About 12-18 months.

Starmill · 24 Jan 2020

westv said:
How long did the Southern dispute last for?

NoMorePacers said:
About 12-18 months.

Is it not still actually ongoing? It's just that the company have secured new contracts from the staff who were in dispute (thereby effectively winning).

Carlisle · 25 Jan 2020

Chris M said:
Those who are not members of this union were not eligible to vote, so we have no way of knowing how many of them support or do not support the action - .

In a very heavily unionised sector like train crew, the number of ardent supporters of the industrial action consciously choosing not to join the union organising it, will likely be tiny.

387star · 25 Jan 2020

NoMorePacers said:
About 12-18 months.

Last strike was March 2018

Chris M · 25 Jan 2020

I would think that "ardent supporters" of this industrial action "consciously choosing not to join the union organising it" will indeed be tiny. However, that's just a guess. I would also guess though that there will be a greater number of those who support it in a less ardent manner who are happy being members of a different (or no) union (and/or prefer not to be part of this specific union) for reasons unrelated to this dispute.
Ultimately the point stands that it is unknowable how many people who were not balloted do or do not support the industrial action.

hooverboy · 25 Jan 2020

Chris M said:
I would think that "ardent supporters" of this industrial action "consciously choosing not to join the union organising it" will indeed be tiny. However, that's just a guess. I would also guess though that there will be a greater number of those who support it in a less ardent manner who are happy being members of a different (or no) union (and/or prefer not to be part of this specific union) for reasons unrelated to this dispute.
Ultimately the point stands that it is unknowable how many people who were not balloted do or do not support the industrial action.

well the vote is taken now isn't it?

no point arguing semantics like remainer maths ,that only 60 % of people actually turned up,and 80% of them voted for action , so therefore the vote for action is 48%, and therefore not a majority.
(that automatically assumes the people who didn't turn up would have voted 100% in the direction you want them to, which even working by the above maths proves that as false)
The decision has been made,like it or not, industrial action beckons(again)

To be frank,I think the last session of industrial action was overkill,and any sympathy for the people involved has now evaporated.
It was too much,too long, no way the travelling public are putting up with that again.

best of british to you if you are involved, but public opinion certainly isn't on your side this time and in all honesty you're on a hiding to nothing.

bb21 · 25 Jan 2020

The thread may be reopened for further discussion if more strike dates are announced.

theironroad · 24 Feb 2020

In the ongoing dispute over the role of the guard on SWR services and following a brief pause after the December 2019 strike, some new dates have been announced:

Therefore, our South Western Railway Guard, Commercial Guard and Train Driver members are instructed not to book on for any shifts that commence between:

• 10.00 hours on Monday 9th March 2020 until 09.59 hours on Tuesday 10th March 2020
• 10.00 hours on Thursday 12th March 2020 until 09.59 hours on Friday 13th March 2020

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-announces-further-two-day24220/

bb21 · 25 Feb 2020

Thread is tentatively reopened for further discussion. You are reminded specifically the following are not permitted:

Personal attack against another forum member
Sarcasm (which is unnecessary in a mature discussion) / snide remarks
Provocation
Swearing
Bickering
Bitching

The above is not an exhaustive list. Please bear in mind forum rules when posting. Remember that not every one will agree with you, and you cannot convince everyone whoever you are and however strong an argument you think you have.

Behaviour in this thread will be closely monitored, and if a mature atmosphere cannot be maintained, the thread will be locked and no further discussion on this dispute permitted. I am sorry to have to set the ground rules out explicitly at this stage. I would rather everyone is clear on the specifics at the beginning than having to play catch-up. Thank you for your cooperation.

Diplodicus · 25 Feb 2020

AIUI, striking staff receive srike pay from their union so that they suffer no financial harm from striking. If this is correct, I see no end in sight to the action.

Tom Quinne · 25 Feb 2020

I got £50 for 9 days back in 2016, not really going to sustain a working family.

Don’t believe the rubbish about £1000 per month pay outs.

Monty · 25 Feb 2020

Tom Quinne said:
I got £50 for 9 days back in 2016, not really going to sustain a working family.

Don’t believe the rubbish about £1000 per month pay outs.

I got about £1400 total from the Union back in December so we did receive significant support for that action but it was unusual as it had been the longest strike in many many years. These next couple of days in March I don't think we are getting anything, I'm only effected on one of those days so it's not going to hurt that much compared to Christmas.

a_c_skinner · 25 Feb 2020

This may be off topic (apologies if it is) but how long can the RMT afford to go on? I thought the RMT had borrowed money from other unions to pay strike pay but that cannot go on, can it? Presumably there isn't strike pay for one day stoppages but will those bring management to the table after a long one has not? SWR weathered a long strike and it seems likely to manage through further strikes with a similar plan. I suppose these strikes cost SWR huge amounts too? Will we see a Southern DOO imposed solution when new rolling stock is in traffic?

pompeyfan · 25 Feb 2020

Monty said:
I got about £1400 total from the Union back in December so we did receive significant support for that action but it was unusual as it had been the longest strike in many many years. These next couple of days in March I don't think we are getting anything, I'm only effected on one of those days so it's not going to hurt that much compared to Christmas.

when you say £1400 from the union, I thought it was just a one off payment of £750 in a cheque, with the one weeks wage topping it up. I quite rightly understand it’s nothing to do with me what other people are receiving but that is very different to what I had heard originally.

the timings of the strikes are a swift change in tactic, as it could cripple the service all week.

reading between the lines if you are currently rostered to book on at 09:59 on the Monday, but 10:01 on the Tuesday you effectively would not be taking part in the strikes.

I wonder how the company will be attempting to handle this.

Further RMT strike action on SWR [latest action suspended]

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