Why has Northern performance improved so much since Christmas?

LNW-GW Joint · 21 Jan 2020

Had to laugh yesterday reading the station PIS at Liverpool South Parkway (high level platforms and on the station bridge).
In between the "Next Train" displays was a permanent scrolling message that said:
"We were the most reliable train operator in the UK last year - 96.4% on time".

Now I guess the "we" relates to Merseyrail on the low level platforms - no problems about that.
But it is quite an insult to passengers on the high level platforms waiting for their Northern and WMT trains, two of the worst operators for punctuality last year and both under investigation by DfT.
Yesterday even EMR services (which are normally a bit better than the others) were also disrupted.

Somehow, the railway can never quite get its PR right.

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thejuggler · 21 Jan 2020

The guard on a service yesterday told everyone the 195 toilet wasn't working. He then advised the turnaround time in Bradford would be ten minutes if anyone needed a loo break.

Robertj21a · 26 Jan 2020

The improved performance is a bit late in the day if reports in The Sunday Times today are anything to go by.

Staffordian · 26 Jan 2020

Robertj21a said:
The improved performance is a bit late in the day if reports in The Sunday Times today are anything to go by.

Perhaps - but the report in the Sunday Times suggests that the reason for the Government taking control this week would be Arriva’s performance bond running out, rather than some sort of punishment for poor performance. However good Arriva’s performance had been, if they had run out of money, the same thing would have happened as per the franchise agreement.
Having said that, if performance had been much better, passenger numbers would have been higher and finances would be stronger, so in a way the ‘financial’ reason is just the inevitable outcome of poor performance.

Nicholas Lewis · 26 Jan 2020

City AM picked up the story and are suggesting announcement will be on Wednesday

https://www.cityam.com/northern-rail-set-to-be-nationalised-this-week-amid-franchising-chaos/

although Shapps has Transport Questions on Thursday in parliament he doesnt need to wait til then and he may go for Wednesday to allow questions on Thursday.

Peter Bonner · 26 Jan 2020

Nicholas Lewis said:
City AM picked up the story and are suggesting announcement will be on Wednesday

https://www.cityam.com/northern-rail-set-to-be-nationalised-this-week-amid-franchising-chaos/

although Shapps has Transport Questions on Thursday in parliament he doesnt need to wait til then and he may go for Wednesday to allow questions on Thursday.

Timing of the announcement cd depend on other events happening nationally or in the north. Im guessing Mr Shapps will want to make the max impact.

Bornin1980s · 26 Jan 2020

When Northern is 'renationalised,' will the livery change?

AndrewE · 26 Jan 2020

Bornin1980s said:
When Northern is 'renationalised,' will the livery change?

I would hope not: one of the stupidities of the current railway is the money wasted on re-branding, new liveries and new uniforms.
Just run the trains to a timetable that works and with enough capacity please!

Nicholas Lewis · 26 Jan 2020

AndrewE said:
I would hope not: one of the stupidities of the current railway is the money wasted on re-branding, new liveries and new uniforms.
Just run the trains to a timetable that works and with enough capacity please!

Agreed but Northern Rail is damaged goods now so im sure the DofT spin doctors will want a rebrand and relaunch to show off there new credentials about helping our friends in Up N'orth

Paceman · 26 Jan 2020

Nicholas Lewis said:
City AM picked up the story and are suggesting announcement will be on Wednesday

https://www.cityam.com/northern-rail-set-to-be-nationalised-this-week-amid-franchising-chaos/

although Shapps has Transport Questions on Thursday in parliament he doesnt need to wait til then and he may go for Wednesday to allow questions on Thursday.

that was the plan, now it’s leaked it may come sooner.

Bletchleyite · 26 Jan 2020

Bornin1980s said:
When Northern is 'renationalised,' will the livery change?

I'd imagine they will probably just stick a bit of white vinyl over "by Arriva" and carry on as before. Repaints might well stop though, or if needed for maintenance reasons just change to something simpler and therefore cheaper e.g. plain white with dark blue doors and yellow ends.

yorksrob · 26 Jan 2020

I travelled on the Calder valley a couple of times over the past two weeks, and things definitely seem to have improved.

I originally travelled over it for several years on Saturday evenings, however three or four years ago I gave up because it was such a dreadful experience. Typically hourly in the evening, it was usually a ram-packed 2 carriage unit, 155 if you were lucky but often just a 150 or even a pacer. Often full and standing until well beyond Rochdale.

Nevertheless recently I tried it again. This time 3 carriages - 150 and an ex FGW 153 (that I've probably had on the Looe branch at some stage) and busy but not uncomfortably so. To cap it all, the service went via Mirfield (I presume there's some other service via Bradford, which must spread some of the load) enabling a change to the new direct Castleford service thus avoiding a traipse via Leeds and those busy evening trains out from there. Apart from a couple of delays here and there, it all went more or less blissfully like clockwork.

Of course, I'm aware that it's not a particularly busy time of year and things will probably get busier in the run up to xmas for example, but I have to say, the change has come as a very pleasent surprise. They probably don't get this a lot, but well done to the planners.

robk23oxf · 26 Jan 2020

I spent yesterday visiting the stations on the Manchester-New Mills line and didn't have a single cancellation all day. This is in stark contrast to my trips last year which had at least one or two cancellations per day.

Paceman · 26 Jan 2020

Can anyone post the wording of the times article?

matt_world2004 · 26 Jan 2020

AndrewE said:
I would hope not: one of the stupidities of the current railway is the money wasted on re-branding, new liveries and new uniforms.
Just run the trains to a timetable that works and with enough capacity please!

The local yobs will Sharpie and spray paint by Arriva out for free.

Glenn1969 · 26 Jan 2020

I doubt they will announce anything this week on any subject. It's Brexit Day on Friday.

Paceman · 26 Jan 2020

Glenn1969 said:
I doubt they will announce anything this week on any subject. It's Brexit Day on Friday.

you will be proven incorrect!

Glenn1969 · 26 Jan 2020

I don't think they will announce anything major this week and anything involving finance will be left for the budget which is planned to be in early March I believe

Sir Felix Pole · 26 Jan 2020

It is a well-orchestrated leak to the 'Sunday Times'. I only have the 'hard-copy' paper but salient points are:-

i. 'An announcement ... by Grant Shapps is expected on Wednesday ... formal handover could be delayed by several weeks'.

ii. '...£500m fund to reopen lines closed in the 1960s under the Beeching cuts. Carefully choreographed attempt to live up to Boris Johnson’s promise to “level up” the economy — as well as distract attention from another rail franchise failing. Among routes promised cash are Ashington to Blyth .. Blackpool to Fleetwood '.

(Presumably means Newcastle - Ashington and Poulton - Fleetwood).

iii. '(Split) ...franchise into east and west regions, and join more closely with Network Rail'.

thejuggler · 26 Jan 2020

Two significant delays last week for me, both were the Chester Leeds service which was caught up in problems around Manchester. I'm not convinced this service is proving to be useful.

Paceman · 26 Jan 2020

Sir Felix Pole said:
It is a well-orchestrated leak to the 'Sunday Times'. I only have the 'hard-copy' paper but salient points are:-

i. 'An announcement ... by Grant Shapps is expected on Wednesday ... formal handover could be delayed by several weeks'.

ii. '...£500m fund to reopen lines closed in the 1960s under the Beeching cuts. Carefully choreographed attempt to live up to Boris Johnson’s promise to “level up” the economy — as well as distract attention from another rail franchise failing. Among routes promised cash are Ashington to Blyth .. Blackpool to Fleetwood '.

(Presumably means Newcastle - Ashington and Poulton - Fleetwood).

iii. '(Split) ...franchise into east and west regions, and join more closely with Network Rail'.

Thanks. Regions thing is nothing new and there are already 4 so is in fact a reduction.

Djgr · 26 Jan 2020

Bornin1980s said:
When Northern is 'renationalised,' will the livery change?

Problem is that Northern as a brand name is toxic.

quantinghome · 26 Jan 2020

Djgr said:
Problem is that Northern as a brand name is toxic.

I don't think people care too much what the trains are called; they just want them to work.

physics34 · 26 Jan 2020

Another reason why all trains should have the same livery barring some regional variations/sectorisation, with the company logo/branding displayed, but removable, along with the BR logo. All this cascading of stock and franchise changes means there are so many livery issues out there.

Peter Bonner · 26 Jan 2020

physics34 said:
Another reason why all trains should have the same livery barring some regional variations/sectorisation, with the company logo/branding displayed, but removable, along with the BR logo. All this cascading of stock and franchise changes means there are so many livery issues out there.

Totally agree. Talk is of rebranding Northern but how much might it actually COST? Ive never seen a cost figure for rebranding franchises(like Virgin to Avanti currently) or for rebranding transferred stock. Does anyone know this cost? Im guessing it might be buried in documents somewhere.

Redmike · 26 Jan 2020

I wondered how much Avanti had spent getting the signs changed at all their stations, it must be a waste of money. Mind you here in Northern land most stations still have the old Northern logo covered up on the signs and in Greater Manchester GMPTE signs are still on 95% of stations - GMPTE has not existed since 2011.

matt_world2004 · 26 Jan 2020

Peter Bonner said:
Totally agree. Talk is of rebranding Northern but how much might it actually COST? Ive never seen a cost figure for rebranding franchises(like Virgin to Avanti currently) or for rebranding transferred stock. Does anyone know this cost? Im guessing it might be buried in documents somewhere.

Aren't Arriva responsible for the debranding in a franchise default.

Djgr · 26 Jan 2020

quantinghome said:
I don't think people care too much what the trains are called; they just want them to work.

They don't care too much...provided the brand name's not toxic!

Nicholas Lewis · 26 Jan 2020

Guardian now publishing what is probably a syndicated version of the Times story

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ionalised-and-some-beeching-closures-reversed

I wonder how much of clear out they will have of Northerns management and what role Transport for the North will now play

Glenn1969 · 26 Jan 2020

I'll believe it when I see it. Also it won't make any difference without the improved infrastructure because the TSR Northern was undoubtedly in breach of was undeliverable

Why has Northern performance improved so much since Christmas?

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