Elecman
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At which point you’ll be removed from the station
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'Trespass and Welfare Officers'
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At which point you’ll be removed from the station
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Skymonster
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Fine, if it happens I’ll take that risk... and I guess he would be proud to believe he’d done his job well.
PS: as far as I can tell, in reality there is no reason beyond anyone on a platform demonstrating that they have a legitimate right to be there (by showing they hold a ticket), railway staff have no right to be probing to the point of being convinced such a person is not a suicide risk. i.e. “Why are you here?” “I have this ticket and I am going to...” End of conversation.
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What a delightful person you are.
Skymonster
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Your insinuation is misguided. I just firmly believe that we should all take self-responsibility seriously and that the nanny-state should not be required to intervene to protect us from our own actions.
The railway has managed without such a role for almost 200 years - why does is it need it now?
Telling a stranger to f*** off when they are checking on your welfare is a sure sign of a delightful individual.
Are you for real? You've obviously never been in a situation where your life has become so intolerable that you've felt like ending it. I actually hope this is the case, because I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Sometimes all it takes is a kind word, or to know that someone actually cares enough to ask "are you okay?"
A little bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss.
Skymonster
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You know what GusB, I have considered such a situation - partly because of experiences with a close family member. And if I ever got to the point where I wanted to end it for whatever reason (I’m not there now, for the sake of clarity) I’d like to be allowed to do it. I believe in euthanasia. The real failing is that the UK does not allow it, which leaves things like jumping in front of a train as the only option for those so inclined.
I'm sure the driver's do not deserve people like you . Why is the train the only option . Many other ways without letting someone take the life and see it happen.
Bail
New Member
I bet you wouldn't tell them to **** off.
Unless you'd a few pints so you would have the courage to act like a complete scally.
Quite why you want to show off you'd tell someone doing exactly what their job entails to **** off is beyond me. I guess you no doubt have a insecurity so you feel the need pretend you would be verbally abusive towards someone.
Unless you'd a few pints so you would have the courage to act like a complete scally.
Quite why you want to show off you'd tell someone doing exactly what their job entails to **** off is beyond me. I guess you no doubt have a insecurity so you feel the need pretend you would be verbally abusive towards someone.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's not about mollycoddling...it's primarily about saving money and traumatised drivers.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Agreed, it's not fair to traumatise someone else if you do decide to end it all. It can even cause the drivers to become suicidal themselves.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
"I'm going to X" or "I'm taking photos of trains", or whatever, isn't hard to say politely.
Even from a selfish point of view, they make your journey to X less likely to be delayed by a suicide.
As for costs, they save money, that's a big part of the point of them. The financial cost to the railway of a suicide is massive. The job stopped on the WCML for 3 hours, well, a Pendolino has about 600 seats, Euston-Manchester Anytime Return is about £300 and every passenger will be getting a full Delay Repay refund. That's 180 grand the railway has lost from one train. 9tph out of Euston stopped for 3 hours plus the locals, a load of taxis, repairs to the affected unit, driver on long term sick...you're into the tens of millions very quickly.
Whereas it might cost a couple of hundred quid a day for a contract security guard to prevent it.
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R G NOW.
Member
I had prevented one attempted suicide at Gloucester some 5 years ago now. Firstly I was standing beneath signal no G133 waiting for points to move. Any way looking across to the waiting room for platform 1 I noticed this teenager wearing a grey hoodie and adidas navy track pants come out of the waiting room. He then walked to the top of platform 1 and stood under signal G135. Any way I quickly walked up the platform to the end where he was, and asked him if was train spotting. But no he was thinking of jumping, I had enough of my father beating me and making me do things I did not want to do. I said please do not jump in front of the 16:43 to London Paddington, which was 12 minutes late departing that day. I advised to contact the Samaritans and the police over the beating. Lastly he turned around and walked back down the platform to the gate line. He got out mobile phone and phoned the number attached to a lamp-post, then left the station. Happy ending. Two weeks later I bumped into him again in the kings walk shopping centre and he thanked me. His father got banged up for two years and he said he was starting college to become a plumber.
Note: I think network rail should put a fence at the end of the platforms, like at other stations, I think it may prevent people coming off the ends.
Note: I think network rail should put a fence at the end of the platforms, like at other stations, I think it may prevent people coming off the ends.
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Aictos
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Indeed anything that helps prevent a suicide should be appreciated but at the same time better after care should be taken for those involved.
SilentGrade
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I can categorically tell you that the savings these teams have made to Trespass and vandalism delay far outweigh the relatively little (in railway terms) outlay by NR
From the selfish POV of the railways, if someone goes away and walks under a lorry that's a win, and even if they do it on the railways but at a quiet time, they're less disruptive (and so less expensive) than at busy times. However, the final act of suicide is often somewhat spontaneous, and even a small disturbance can be enough to stop someone doing it at all.
D365
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Mental health nurses and rehab institutions are never going to help everyone. Does that mean we should give up funding them?
The "nanny state" you describe is the one that ends up paying out when someone goes under a train.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, precisely. It is not being done out of compassion, though they may well take the publicity that way. It is a cold, hard, financial decision. It is simply cheaper than dealing with suicides.
Same with fast-line fencing.
For most of that 200 years they didn't have Delay Repay, passenger charters, or delay attribution costs, and it would probably be a net loss in terms of wasted money and bad publicity to try to make the estates of deceased persons pay for those costs, given the scale of the charges compared to the average net worth.
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MK Tom
Established Member
The WCML ones have been here for a while now. I can see the benefit at big busy stations like MK and Watford, but having them all the time at Wolverton and Cheddington seems a complete waste of resources to me. If their purpose really is to discourage suicides, they probably aught to wear something making them look a little more approachable, as right now the impression you get is one of oppressive overbearing security at these stations.
When we had platform staff and attended stations was not suicide prevention something that was done automatically. These security persons could carry a broom or paintbrush, answer a few general inquiries or even tend a station garden or cat, all this would make the security operative more approachable so better able to talk and persuade.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
dear me. This post massively misunderstands the point in such a manner that it is hilariously wide of the mark. I wonder, also, if the poster might like to have a think about his appalling attitude. A person being paid, no doubt, minimum wage to stand in the cold and wet and try to stop people jumping in front of trains and you want to abuse them for doing the job they are asked to do. Shameful.
it is also clear that you have absolutely no idea of the costs involved in dealing with just one suicide on the railway.
The point of this activity still eludes you. It is clear your understanding of this topic and the behaviour of such people is extremely limited. You seem to fail to consider that the deceased may well have a ticket and have paid for parking at the station. But I am sure you know best.
I wonder, perhaps, if the number of people killing themselves on the railway could have gone up in recent years? I wonder, perhaps, if there has been an associated increase in delay costs and health care costs for people impacted by suicide. I wonder, perhaps, if having similar people at stations on the southern WCML has reduced massively the number of on station suicides?
Nah, bound to be nanny state-ism or something.
Without wishing to go into detail the stations you mention ARE, absolutely, high risk locations. I am sure you will understand why. The patrol staff are appropriately dressed to be visible and safe. The fact they are so visible is the deterrent.
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
I am fairly cynical but i have to say I have never got this vibe from the people running the programme. I am sure that business benefits have formed part of the decision to support the programme ( and i would certainly have asked the question!) but the approach has always been one of prevention, support and care.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
And I'm sure your attitude would quickly change if you were the driver of a train and someone jumped in front of you
And before you ask, yes I see and try and help people on the brink of suicide almost every day
Wow. Imagine getting that angry about a scheme to try and stop people committing suicide.
ThisIsSurbiton
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My experience of these staff at my station, which is already relatively lavishly staffed, is that they also help avoid accidental injury, as it can get over-crowded (I would say dangerously so) especially when two down trains arrive together in the evening peak. I have only seen one of them do the 'pastoral' side of the job once, the little I heard as I walked past showed me what a good job they are doing. I wonder what training they get - I have none, and would worry about making a bad situation worse - although perhaps just having the uniform helps.
It's not; but I don't expect people in this situation to be able to think about that logically. Someone else needs to do it for them. Displacing a death from the railway to somewhere else can never be enough.
It's not; but I don't expect people in this situation to be able to think about that logically. Someone else needs to do it for them. Displacing a death from the railway to somewhere else can never be enough.
221129
Established Member
Is that not entirely the point though?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Absolutely. I do wonder about this board sometimes.......
bramling
Veteran Member
To be fair I can see both sides of this one. I can see the cost justification, and I can see how one could construct an argument that preventing suicides is a good thing to do. However I have to say I’m not overly enthused by the notion of having someone intruding into my business should I happen to be quite legitimately using an “out of the way” piece of platform for whatever reason. I wouldn’t be rude to them however.
Given no one seems to have mentioned being hassled for taking photos, can we assume they’re leaving enthusiasts alone?!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I can't!
You aren't going to be hassled, just asked if you are ok. In any event, as you say, being civil is hardly difficult.
Someone with a camera wont be a concern. There are certain factors to look out for.
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