50p for your thoughts...

PaxVobiscum · 27 Jan 2020

For those with not enough to worry about:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51269012

BBC News: Sir Philip Pullman calls for 50p boycott over Oxford comma
Sir Philip has taken umbrage because the Oxford comma is missing from the coin's wording: "Peace, prosperity and friendship with all nations."

The Oxford comma is included before the final "and" in lists but it is not used universally and is often a topic of debate for grammar enthusiasts.

The coin will come into circulation on 31 January, when the UK leaves the EU.

Stig Abell, editor of the Times Literary Supplement, agreed with Pullman, tweeting: "The lack of a comma after 'prosperity' is killing me."

But Susie Dent, from Countdown's Dictionary Corner, said the Oxford comma was optional.

"Yes it is optional: it clarifies things quite often though, and I just find it easier and more consistent to use it all the time," she tweeted.

And broadcaster Joan Bakewell tweeted that she was taught that it was wrong to use the comma in such circumstances.

The new coin was unveiled by Chancellor Sajid Javid at the weekend.

Despite being something of a pedant on such matters I have to say I am deeply unconcerned.

Anyone here with Sir Philip?

RailUK Forums

GRALISTAIR · 27 Jan 2020

On a scale of 0-100 where 100 is nuclear weapons have just been launched - it rates a big fat zero with me.

najaB · 27 Jan 2020

PaxVobiscum said:
Despite being something of a pedant on such matters I have to say I am deeply unconcerned.

It's somewhat like being concerned about how the water is going to damage furnishings on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg!

GusB · 27 Jan 2020

I was under the impression that the comma wasn't required if it followed "and". Does it really matter?

What get's my goat more than anything else is the abuse of apostrophe's, especially when used in plural's

I'm not going to argue about a missing comma when so many posts on the forum lack any punctuation at all.

najaB · 27 Jan 2020

GusB said:
I was under the impression that the comma wasn't required if it followed "and".

This is what is known as the Oxford, or Serial Comma, one of the most contentious issues in grammarian circles. Traditionally you would be correct - the penultimate item in a list doesn't attract a comma since it is followed by one of 'and', 'or, 'nor' or 'not'. However, there are many who hold that this can introduce ambiguity. For a trivial example: I dedicate this performance to my parents, the Queen and God.

Using the serial comma will make it much clearer that I'm not claiming to be the second coming of the messiah: I dedicate this performance to my parents, the Queen, and God.

Ianno87 · 27 Jan 2020

A 50p coin commerating is an appropriate commemoration of Brexit.... cash being a technology of the past.

Struggling to remember the last time I had posession of a 50p coin.

ComUtoR · 27 Jan 2020

najaB said:
Using the serial comma will make it much clearer that I'm not claiming to be the second coming of the messiah: I dedicate this performance to my parents, the Queen, and God.

I dedicate this performance to my parents, the King and Queen, and God. Also, the rest of the Royal Family and their Children.

I dedicate this performance to my parents, the King, and Queen, and God; also, the rest of the Royal Family, and their Children.

The second version makes me a little; queasy.

najaB · 27 Jan 2020

Ianno87 said:
Struggling to remember the last time I had posession of a 50p coin.

I have them quite frequently - because the pool table I play on most frequently is 50p a game.

najaB · 27 Jan 2020

ComUtoR said:
I dedicate this performance to my parents, the King and Queen, and God. Also, the rest of the Royal Family and their Children.

Indeed, that is the argument against the serial comma since it can make the middle term appear to be an appostive phrase.

DaleCooper · 27 Jan 2020

najaB said:
This is what is known as the Oxford, or Serial Comma, one of the most contentious issues in grammarian circles. Traditionally you would be correct - the penultimate item in a list doesn't attract a comma since it is followed by one of 'and', 'or, 'nor' or 'not'. However, there are many who hold that this can introduce ambiguity. For a trivial example: I dedicate this performance to my parents, the Queen and God.

Using the serial comma will make it much clearer that I'm not claiming to be the second coming of the messiah: I dedicate this performance to my parents, the Queen, and God.

I would write "I dedicate this performance to my parents, the Queen and to God." which avoids both a comma and ambiguity..

najaB · 27 Jan 2020

DaleCooper said:
I would write "I dedicate this performance to my parents, the Queen and to God." which avoids both a comma and ambiguity..

Which is the argument used by grammarians who are opposed to the Oxford comma - you can normally refactor the sentence to remove the ambiguity.

DaleCooper · 27 Jan 2020

najaB said:
Which is the argument used by grammarians who are opposed to the Oxford comma - you can normally refactor the sentence to remove the ambiguity.

Actually I wouldn't dedicate anything to either the queen or god.

By the way, is refactor a fancy synonym for rephrase?

Busaholic · 27 Jan 2020

You'd think that the son of Awdry Pullman might produce a decent railway novel and his first success was, indeed, 'Northern Taillights', a children's book about a train that liked to play 'follow my leader.' :lol:

najaB · 27 Jan 2020

DaleCooper said:
By the way, is refactor a fancy synonym for rephrase?

Sorry, it's a computing term used in natural language processing. You can factor a sentence into its lexical units to try and understand the underlying meaning. A sentence is refactorable if you can change the order of the units without changing the meaning.

krus_aragon · 27 Jan 2020

najaB said:
You can factor a sentence into its lexical units to try and understand the underlying meaning.

Which, for context, is the same sort of idea as factorising (or factoring) a number such as 42 into 6 and 7.

DaleCooper · 27 Jan 2020

Be careful not to confuse the Oxford comma with the Luton Commer.

ac_Commer%20PA%20MkII%20Motorhome%20head.jpg

scotrail158713 · 27 Jan 2020

GusB said:
I'm not going to argue about a missing comma when so many posts on the forum lack any punctuation at all

Oh this forum’s fine. Try the wonderful Pie and Bovril to see sentences sans grammar.

DarloRich · 27 Jan 2020

some people have very little to worry about. In other news the NHS is falling apart, criminal justice is on it rse, the police have lost about 25% of their numbers, people are using foodbanks and homelessness is through the roof but yeah, a comma.

yorksrob · 27 Jan 2020

Surely you only have a comma before "and" if it's a change of clause ?

DaleCooper · 27 Jan 2020

DarloRich said:
some people have very little to worry about. In other news the NHS is falling apart, criminal justice is on it rse, the police have lost about 25% of their numbers, people are using foodbanks and homelessness is through the roof but yeah, a comma.

You are forgetting something important. Without the comma we wouldn't have the semicolon and then where would we be?

Jimbob52 · 27 Jan 2020

Re the photograph of the Luton Commer.

Has it has come to a full stop?

Geezertronic · 27 Jan 2020

There are some fruit-loops who define it as a coma

They are usually the same as the ones who have little Angles at home, acute Angles

Busaholic · 28 Jan 2020

DaleCooper said:
You are forgetting something important. Without the comma we wouldn't have the semicolon and then where would we be?

Doomed comma I tell you.

SteveP29 · 28 Jan 2020

Geezertronic said:
There are some fruit-loops who define it as a coma They are usually the same as the ones who have little Angles at home, acute Angles

And they say 'this is are country'

kermit · 28 Jan 2020

Should any of these coins come my way, they will be having a meaningful discussion with the hammer and anvil I keep in my shed, followed by an appointment with the recycling truck. Petty, perhaps, but satisfying, and unlikely to cost me more than a couple of quid!

ComUtoR · 28 Jan 2020

kermit said:
Should any of these coins come my way, they will be having a meaningful discussion with the hammer and anvil I keep in my shed, followed by an appointment with the recycling truck. Petty, perhaps, but satisfying, and unlikely to cost me more than a couple of quid!

Maybe donate them to charity instead ?

kermit · 28 Jan 2020

ComUtoR said:
Maybe donate them to charity instead ?

That would see them back in circulation. I will consider making a donation to match each one that I "withdraw".

najaB · 28 Jan 2020

kermit said:
Petty, perhaps, but satisfying, and unlikely to cost me more than a couple of quid!

Why not keep them? In a few years they might be worth four or five new pounds each.

DaleCooper · 28 Jan 2020

kermit said:
Should any of these coins come my way, they will be having a meaningful discussion with the hammer and anvil I keep in my shed, followed by an appointment with the recycling truck. Petty, perhaps, but satisfying, and unlikely to cost me more than a couple of quid!

I suspect that, like many activities that seem exciting and satisfying beforehand, this will turn out to be a severe disappointment. That's assuming that your dad lets you use the hammer?

kermit · 28 Jan 2020

najaB said:
Why not keep them? In a few years they might be worth four or five new pounds each.

Ha! Yes - assuming that the "new pounds" equate to about 10p each of our good old sterling ones!

50p for your thoughts...

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