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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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ic31420

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In relation to doors closing. I've been known to hit the close button when it's cold or hot if I'm on a train and the last people have finished getting on /off. Simply to keep the heated or cooled air in.
 
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samuelmorris

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In relation to doors closing. I've been known to hit the close button when it's cold or hot if I'm on a train and the last people have finished getting on /off. Simply to keep the heated or cooled air in.
Yes but doing that should still cancel if an obstruction is detected, rather than closing on people which would only normally happen when the door close was initiated by the guard/driver as appropriate for DOO stock. I believe the complaints were that the doors were attempting to crush people even under other circumstances (e.g. after the open period elapsed for climate control purposes, or even just after the doors were released).
 

Llama

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Yes but doing that should still cancel if an obstruction is detected, rather than closing on people which would only normally happen when the door close was initiated by the guard/driver as appropriate for DOO stock. I believe the complaints were that the doors were attempting to crush people even under other circumstances (e.g. after the open period elapsed for climate control purposes, or even just after the doors were released).
The doors on 195s and 331s have 'sensitive edges' which should detect anything of a certain size that they're trying to close on, they attempt to close three times and if the third attempt finds an obstruction then they give up, stay open and then need intervention. I suspect, from anecdotal accounts in here and elsewhere, that when the doors close very soon after opening (such as when guards bypass Asdo but don't press the relevant controls for five seconds, or drivers key out at the end of their journey too quickly) the doors don't behave in the way they should. Perhaps someone could confirm.
 

Llama

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I'm not going to try to recreate the fault in service for obvious reasons but also even on some safe ECS somewhere out if the way it would most likely need a guard to have the highest chance of getting it to happen. Drivers don't have the kaba keys required to work the train doors at the door control panels in the saloons which is the only way of recreating the circumstances - both because those are the only locations with SDO switches, and also because the door control buttons in the cabs don't exist as far as any driver is concerned, no matter what the circumstances.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Not sure where to post this, but we went to visit friends in Heald Green yesterday as the six of us had previously booked rail travel from there to Lancaster and return the previous week, all of us using our Senior Citizens Railcard and had chosen the Class 195 operated Northern 1032 departure from Heald Green.

When we arrived at the station, there were quite a number of other intending travellers besides us who wished to travel on the same train and there were both numerous announcements and the departure screen stating this train was cancelled "due to congestion on the line". The so-called "congestion" did not seem to affect the TPE services that passed non-stop at Heald Green station. There was a rather miraculous matter that then occurred as the so-called 1032 "cancelled" train, albeit somewhat late, actually stopped at Heald Green station and we were able to complete our intended journey.

I am pleased to report that the ride on this particular Class 195 service was very good, with none of the usual reported faults being apparent and such was the run between Manchester Oxford Road and Wigan North Western, that much of the time lateness had been cleared.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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There was plenty of "congestion" visible yesterday through Oxford Road.
I found myself on EMR's finest (2x153+a no-heat 156) between Liverpool and Manchester.
It had been delayed westbound after Stockport, and was now repeatedly delayed eastbound by the CLC stopper it was supposed to be in front of.
Unusually, we passed 2x195 in the sidings east of Warrington Central, which I noticed later were back on Airport-Liverpool services.
The conductor spent his time telling passengers we would not be calling at Sheffield.
At Piccadilly we were just in time to see the TPE Cleethorpes train sail away in front of us, so any Sheffield passengers were in for a long wait.
So plenty of "disruption" yesterday.
The sidings at Edge Hill were virtually empty of CAF units yesterday, which is a good sign (just 2 units visible).
But still plenty languishing at Allerton.
 

_toommm_

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The conductor spent his time telling passengers we would not be calling at Sheffield.

Was that the 15:51 from Liverpool? It did actually call at Sheffield, but was curtailed at Nottingham in the end, with Norwich passengers chucked off at Sheffield and told to go via Doncaster and Peterborough
 

superkev

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The sidings at Edge Hill were virtually empty of CAF units yesterday, which is a good sign (just 2 units visible).
But still plenty languishing at Allerton
Perhaps more 195s and 331s have left storage and actually entered service. Ive lost track of delivery and storage situation.
K
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Was that the 15:51 from Liverpool? It did actually call at Sheffield, but was curtailed at Nottingham in the end, with Norwich passengers chucked off at Sheffield and told to go via Doncaster and Peterborough

No, it was the 0951 from Lime St*.
It arrived at about that time, but there was no rush to turn it round quickly and it left at 1016 (the 1016 NT Airport service was also cancelled).
Meanwhile the 0955 Oxford Road stopper had left on time but was also delayed en route so we both crawled from Hunt's Cross to Manchester.

*From RTT, this train did omit Sheffield, but it didn't seem to help much, as it was still 26 late at Nottingham.
The following Norwich service didn't fare much better.
All the delays were initially triggered by the congestion through Manchester (in both directions).
Once you've lost your path, it seems there's no catching up.
 

LowLevel

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No, it was the 0951 from Lime St*.
It arrived at about that time, but there was no rush to turn it round quickly and it left at 1016 (the 1016 NT Airport service was also cancelled).
Meanwhile the 0955 Oxford Road stopper had left on time but was also delayed en route so we both crawled from Hunt's Cross to Manchester.

*From RTT, this train did omit Sheffield, but it didn't seem to help much, as it was still 26 late at Nottingham.
The following Norwich service didn't fare much better.
All the delays were initially triggered by the congestion through Manchester (in both directions).
Once you've lost your path, it seems there's no catching up.

There is a 20 minute booked break for the guard which causes further delay with late turnaround. Most guards don't bother curtailing it to help out anymore as you usually end up going in and out without a break in a 6 hour block of work only to be ruined timewise by regulation at Manchester regardless.

May as well have a fag or a coffee and be delayed as rush and be delayed anyway.

I used to cut my break short but am now very reluctant to do so as I've seen the above happen to me far too many times to be bothered much anymore.
 

palmersears

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195023 now at Edge Hill, which by my reckoning leaves just six 195s outstanding for delivery (020, 024, 025, 131-133).
 

SteveM70

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The offset door control does seem like a terrible design flaw. Plenty of reports of conductors refusing to allow trains to leave because the aisle between the near and offside door controls was full of standing passengers, and insisting passengers got off.
 

superkev

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195023 now at Edge Hill, which by my reckoning leaves just six 195s outstanding for delivery (020, 024, 025, 131-133).
Have any more of the stored units entered service recently. My last list had:-
2 car 195 005,006 (hudds trainers), 014, 016, 017, 018, 019, 021, 022, 023 stored.
3 car 195 108 stored Barrow, 126 128 Sheffield trainers, 130 stored EG.
Any updates. Thanks in advance.
K
 

Chorley Cake

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005 & 006 both stabled at Huddersfield on Saturday 25th. 108 & 130 stabled west of Doncaster station same day. Large number of 2 car 195s on Leeds to Chester services.
 

507 001

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The offset door control does seem like a terrible design flaw. Plenty of reports of conductors refusing to allow trains to leave because the aisle between the near and offside door controls was full of standing passengers, and insisting passengers got off.
I’ve known them do that with 319s too if they can’t get from the doors to the cab.
 

ic31420

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I’ve known them do that with 319s too if they can’t get from the doors to the cab.

Likewise but the I've been on trains where the conductor sits in the saloon, walks around chatting with passengers or particularly on 331s hangs around the doors - even on not mad busy services.

I thought we was moving away from the newspaper reading campanologist stereotype.
 

507 001

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Likewise but the I've been on trains where the conductor sits in the saloon, walks around chatting with passengers or particularly on 331s hangs around the doors - even on not mad busy services.

I thought we was moving away from the newspaper reading campanologist stereotype.

I wasn’t trying to imply anything. Merely attempting to point out that 319s are also considered awkward to work for similar reasons. Whether they are going to spend time in the saloon or not, they’ll still need to access the back cab at some point.
 

Karl

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Quick question, and apologies for not reading the thread. Are the 195s working the York to Blackpool services yet?
 

Greybeard33

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As an antidote to all the negativity on this thread, this week I had two trouble-free journeys on 195s, one from Victoria to Leeds and one from Barrow to Piccadilly. This was the first time for a couple of months I had been on a 195, and I found things seem to be settling down well.

The ride was ok, even at the end of the carriage, apart from a bit of clattering from the bogies. The aircon maintained a comfortable temperature and the brakes did not squeal. The PIS worked flawlessly, except for spurious short platform announcements approaching Hebden Bridge and Halifax.

The drivers and conductors seemed to be well on top of the foibles of these units - there were no issues with the doors and all stops were smooth and precise.

The saloon interiors were clean, the seats were comfortable and the toilets were working.

The impressive performance caused long dwells at the Calder Valley stations, waiting for the timetable to catch up. A signalling delay of several minutes at Warrington was fully recovered by Piccadilly.

"Nothing to see here, move along please folks...."
 

Llama

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Not all smooth and trouble free today, a 195 was derailed at low speed on Edge Hill depot.

Pictures of it on the deck are rather apt considering today's announcement.
 

Mugby

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I've managed a couple of rides on 195s now, from Lincoln to Sheffield and from Sheffield to Leeds (express via Barnsley)

The latter was on a Saturday and was standing room only, 2-cars are simply not enough for that service on Saturdays.
There's a lot of empty space, presumably intended for standing but how does the number of seats compare with a 158?

One very odd thing I noticed was that on several sections of line, the drive seems to be constantly switching between high and low gearing at intervals of about 4/5 seconds. Is there a computerised engine management system which can't make up it's mind which gear it needs to be in?
 

thejuggler

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I noticed what looked like a newish unit stabled at Bradford Interchange this evening adjacent to platform 4. You could tell it was new as the whole side of the train was clean.

"Older" units are now filthy below the door step level as the train wash brushes obviously don't reach that far. Some poor soul must be tasked with wiping off the thick layer of dirt at intervals to reveal the markings indicating the location of main components.
 
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