• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Wigan - Preston Upgrade?

Status
Not open for further replies.

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
So you agree that HS2’s existence has delayed decisions about upgrades. No one will do much before being sure whether HS2 is coming or not.
HS2's potential existence. But if HS2 wasn't on the table I don't think upgrades north of Wigan would be a priority at all.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,836
So you agree that HS2’s existence has delayed decisions about upgrades. No one will do much before being sure whether HS2 is coming or not.
It hasnt as any improvements were a long way down the list. HS2 will prioritise them by default.
 

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,122
The priority now is GWML, ECML and MML upgrades which have had (bar GW electrification) a poor deal .
I’d agree the MML & GWML had a poor deal until recently, but not the ECML, it received substantial investment just before privatisation & tilting trains could’ve improved things further had the political will been there to introduce them
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,320
There were plans under WCRM to reinstate a 3rd track on the Standish-Balshaw Lane section, on the west side of the current 2-track railway.
This should have been done at the same time the approach to Wigan NW from Liverpool was doubled, as part of area capacity improvements.
It would have been a reversible line and used by freight as well as the Liverpool-Blackpool service.
While some OHLE masts would have had to be moved, much of the route is outside the current line of masts on the existing solum, so would not have been vastly expensive to build.
It was also part of local aims to reopen Coppull station (along with Golborne further south).
But the project was canned during a late WCRM review, although the Balshaw Lane turnout has been improved to 50mph.
I guess there are higher priorities now.
.

The Balshaw Lane Junction turnout is now allowed at 75 mph.

If capacity through Wigan North Western became a big problem, then the easiest (but expensive) option might be to reopen the Whelley line. Apart from removal of some bridges, and lots of vegetation growth, much of the former alignment is not obstructed, although a section near Whelley has a footpath/cycle track.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
The Balshaw Lane Junction turnout is now allowed at 75 mph.

Yes, I can see that's true from the SA.
My experience on Liverpool-Blackpool trains is of it being more like 50mph, because of the station stop close by.
It will be a great help for freight though.
 

S&CLER

Member
Joined
11 Jan 2020
Messages
785
Location
southport
The Balshaw Lane Junction turnout is now allowed at 75 mph.

If capacity through Wigan North Western became a big problem, then the easiest (but expensive) option might be to reopen the Whelley line. Apart from removal of some bridges, and lots of vegetation growth, much of the former alignment is not obstructed, although a section near Whelley has a footpath/cycle track.

I can't see the Whelley loop reopening (having walked most of it), but if it ever did, there is a very short link (21 chains), currently overgrown with trees but not built on, from the former De Trafford Junction to Hindley, clearly visible from the train. If that were included it would add very useful flexibility, since it would give diversionary routes to Salford via Bolton and the Atherton line.
 
Last edited:

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,122
Utter rubbish. If anything HS2 will accelerate it.
If HS2s true cost increases are anything like
the media’s reporting , the likelihood of straightening parts of the northern WCML for faster non EPS speeds (which certainly won’t come cheap) is probably remote. & won’t happen until some time after it’s opening, like HS1 did for Eurostar
 
Last edited:

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,836
If HS2s true cost increases are anything like
the media’s reporting , the likelihood of straightening parts of the northern WCML for faster non EPS speeds (which certainly won’t come cheap) is probably remote. & won’t happen until some time after it’s opening, like HS1 did for Eurostar
Except its being looked at now to run at faster non-EPS speeds without re-alignment.
 

Roger B

Member
Joined
16 Jun 2018
Messages
891
Location
Gatley
Sorry if this is covered up-thread .... I was talking to a mate of mine the other day, who lives in Golborne. He says there are significant numbers of people who drive to NLW to take a train to LIV or MAN / MCV, or who drive to WBQ for points south. He'd love to see Golborne re-opening, and says that the new MP for Leigh is very keen on the idea. Could it happen any time soon? What trains could use it? I'm thinking Northern's MIA - BIF / WDM (not routed via BON), ditto TPE's MIA - GLC / EDB (not routed via BON)? Would a BPN - CRE shuttle routed via PRE, WGN, Golborne and WBQ tap into new markets?
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,320
If paths were available, the easiest solution might be to divert the Liverpool Lime St. to Warrington Bank Quay service from Earlestown via Newton Le Willows to Golborne (platforms on Slow Lines) and Wigan North Western.
Earlestown has alternative services to Warrington, and generally not a lot of passengers use the Lime St. services south of Earlestown.
 

LeylandLen

Member
Joined
28 Oct 2013
Messages
779
Location
Leyland Lancs
Sorry if this is covered up-thread .... I was talking to a mate of mine the other day, who lives in Golborne. He says there are significant numbers of people who drive to NLW to take a train to LIV or MAN / MCV, or who drive to WBQ for points south. He'd love to see Golborne re-opening, and says that the new MP for Leigh is very keen on the idea. Could it happen any time soon? What trains could use it? I'm thinking Northern's MIA - BIF / WDM (not routed via BON), ditto TPE's MIA - GLC / EDB (not routed via BON)? Would a BPN - CRE shuttle routed via PRE, WGN, Golborne and WBQ tap into new markets?

I would support the idea of having a Blackpool N/Preston all stations to Crewe stopper. As it is all trains from Preston to Crewe DO NOT stop at Winsford/Hartford but go straight through, so u have to change at Crewe to get to those 2 stations, presently served by trains to/from Liverpool.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,908
Yes even Power supply upgrade (autotransformer Euxton - Catteral -Great Stickland and beyond) looks to have been put on hold.

Just goes to show the extent HS2 has already put the brakes on improvements to what’s arguably Britain’s premier mainline & would’ve most probably seen ERTMS & lots of other enhancements started had it not gone ahead

I think it was mentioned on this board that a feeder station wasn't built as part of the Northern Triangle electrification scheme as it be removed from the budget and put on the HS2 budget instead.
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
2,880
Location
Lancashire
I think it was mentioned on this board that a feeder station wasn't built as part of the Northern Triangle electrification scheme as it be removed from the budget and put on the HS2 budget instead.

Not that I am aware the feeder station that was required at Herod has been built and commissioned even though it’s only as a Independent Feeder to Ordsall Lane TSC at present, until Stalybridge / Transpennine Electrification is finally authorised.

The West Coast ATF project ran out of money so work is suspended whilst the project is reauthorised
 

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
7,806
Location
Dalton GA USA & Preston Lancs
Not that I am aware the feeder station that was required at Herod has been built and commissioned even though it’s only as a Independent Feeder to Ordsall Lane TSC at present, until Stalybridge / Transpennine Electrification is finally authorised.

The West Coast ATF project ran out of money so work is suspended whilst the project is reauthorised

I could see Euxton to Catterall getting authorized but is there really a need to go all the way to Great Strickland and then on northwards to north of Carlisle New Yard?
 
Last edited:

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,908
I could see Euston to Catterall getting authorized but is there really a need to go all the way to Great Strickland and then on northwards to north of Carlisle New Yard?

I would guess you might need to if the HS trains are more power hungry than the Pendolinos that they replace for services north of Golborne Jn. Also I'd be surprised if the Class 397s aren't more power hungry than Class 350s for TPE.

In addition can any lengthening of trains from 4 car Class 319s to 6 car 323s on Northern take place without it? Never mind Class 769s using OLE power where Class 15x services operate today under the wires?
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
2,880
Location
Lancashire
Given all the expensive bits of kit ( the actual ATS equipment stations are already bought and installed and most of the structures have been modified I don’t see why not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top