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Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
- Thread starter Jozhua
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samuelmorris
Established Member
Is that what was proposed? My interpretation of the extra power unit was that an extra GU would be fitted to one of the driving vehicles, the one that doesn't have the pantograph and transformer.
Hmm, I think we're going to have to start making a distinction between generator vehicles (those with the power pack and alternator) and motor vehicles (those with traction motors)... So we're talking something like DTG - MG - TG - MG - DTP I guess?
samuelmorris
Established Member
There'd be little point having an additional GU without traction motors, I'd expect that particular driving vehicle to be powered, and only have the pantograph/transformer vehicle a trailer.
Seems a huge change for the AT300 design, but the image also suggests not enough space for the sliding door as the window is too close to the door to accommodate the pocket, which would fix the horrible windowless seats in an already shorter carriage ! I suspect more likely it’s artistic licence though
Class 395s have massive sliding doors and 20m coaches.
been stated upthread that the 2x driving vehicles will each continue to house a pantograph and a transformer. Unsure whether the centre coach will have traction motors (it should imho) but it sounds like Hitachi have a way of slinging 2 gensets under a coach. This would mean a genset per traction bogie if the centre car is unpowered, which would mean there's more than enough power on diesel to match the performance on electric but it will be of lesser performance compared to the 800/801/802 because it is short of traction motors. If that centre vehicle is powered then you'd have 2 gensets powering 3 bogies, which requires the traction alternators to be synchronised- best of luck with that. I'm keeping in mind the 800/1/2 are 140mph machines on electric, perhaps the performance of the 804 (if that's what it to be called) will be 125mph.
thinking further about this. Hitachi use 2 traction motors per bogie. 3 powered vehicles = 6 powered bogies = 12 traction motors. It can't be beyond the skill of the designers to arrange for the switchgear for each of the 4 gensets to power 3 traction motors each? An improvement over the 800/802 of a genset powering 4 motors each.
Nym
Established Member
Especially since the whole unit has a massive traction busline end to end?
samuelmorris
Established Member
Apologies, I missed that.
Speed43125
Member
I see that as well, which quite frankly, is what the stock should have had from the get-go if it is. But it dosen't look fully flush either, so I suspect is just a rendering thing and they are perhaps altered compared to current 80x stock, but are still sliding.
no worries. It was an article in Modern Railways that someone had shared. Until the things are actually delivered we won't know what's what.
RealTrains07
Established Member
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- 28 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 1,758
The cab looks a lot more sharper than before, actually looks really nice. I am not a big fan of the 800s either.Not sure if this image has been released earlier, but it shows what looks to be a couple of changes versus previously released imagery.
These include a silver and not golden cone, the decals on the side are also different compared to their previous imagery, the top light is more horizontal than circular and the door is more flush, the cone is more pointed and this picture now shows digital cut-outs for carriage screens.
Source: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/east...ent-open-evening-tickets-90617478317?ref=estw
EMR is definitely being spoiled
there's an article by a Hitachi design engineer, I'll try and dig out the link to it. The massive traction busline you refer to is only whilst on electric and comes from the transformer. When operating on diesel the switchgear isolates the motors from this busline and substitutes the gensets. The gensets don't contribute to the bus. Happy to be corrected if this was just a concept that engineer put up and differs from reality,
This could actually be true, I’ve heard there’s a possibility it could be extended much further north now Failing Grayling is out of the picture.
Nym
Established Member
Fair, but this may not be the case on the 804s.
Also, pretty thick to be honest, since other similar fleets do have this feature.
The EMR fleet director has confirmed today in a staff update that a) the fleet won't be class 804, that detail will be confirmed shortly and b) the sets will have 4 vehicles with 1 diesel engine each and one vehicle with a pantograph and transformer - no vehicle will have 2 engines.
4 engine'd vehicles sounds far more sensible! Will be interesting to see if this panto/transformer vehicle is a driving car (which the renders suggest is the case) or a centre car. Having it on the driving cars, coupled with the frequent turning of sets on MML duties seems like a recipe for a lot of restricted running south of bedford (or increased maintenance!)
The existing 5 car ones have 2 pans but 1 transformer so a 2x5car unit could have pans up on 1st and 10th cars...
I never realised that was the case, presumably the other driving trailer (assuming the transformer is there) has a lump of concrete? However, my reading of @LowLevel's post is that there will be a single vehicle with a pantograph in each unit. I suppose we'll have to wait for the details to be unveiled.
It would't need a lump of concrete as it would have an engine raft adding weight instead!
No just me getting confused between current and future
Nym
Established Member
Given that there is almost certainly going to be an HT Busline with pans on the 1st and last cars, if I where a betting man I'd say the transformer will be in the centre car, and this will be a trailer also housing the aux batteries, statcon etc.
(Also given NR's allergy to intermediate spacing on the 26m 5 car units when in double, even though the instantaneous carbon strip forces seem to actually perform better)
how does this tie in with the recent release that stated there were to be only 2 motored vehicles, 2 & 4? Something doesn't quite add up.
Jozhua
Established Member
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Tbh, two motored vehicles doesn't really add up either considering the units need to match 222 timings. The 222's have pretty hefty engines, under every carriage too.
no it doesn't add up. Although 4x 940bhp is about the same as makes no odds as 5x 750bhp, provided the traction motors can make use of that power.
222 engines derated to 700hp about 8 years ago.