• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Reading Buses and Thames Valley

Flange Squeal

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2012
Messages
1,251
Courtney competed with First in Bracknell on the 90, 171/2 and 194, but they haven’t really competed in Slough. I guess the 600 could have been said to compete with First’s 200, but the latter hasn’t run for a little while. The routes they run in Slough only began after First withdrew from them last year (2/10/11/15).

As for Reading Buses, they haven’t really competed with anyone from what I can see? The Kennections operation took over routes from Weavaway’s Newbury & District, but that was a tender win rather than outright commercial war. I think the 3 Leopard was the result of Thames Travel packing up their Wokingham depot and therefore 144 route. The 4 Lion took over the 90 when First withdrew it, the 7 Tiger took over the northern part of Stagecoach’s 7 which they were withdrawing, the takeover of Greenline 702 was due to First’s withdrawal, and the start of Thames Valley’s current operation of the 5 (and part 4/6) was again only because First withdrew from them.

Courtney and Thames Valley both did start a route 2, but that was a commercial route and I understand they didn’t know Courtney had also registered it. Reading Buses dropped their 2 fairly quickly, rather than go into competition with Courtney on it.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Anthony ross

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2017
Messages
204
And now looking a posts from the hands& Surrey blog it looks like the Courtney name is being dropped in favour of the Thames valley name
 

Wirewiper

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2017
Messages
612
Location
BET & TQY
And now looking a posts from the hands& Surrey blog it looks like the Courtney name is being dropped in favour of the Thames valley name

At the moment, that is just the Slough area operations, Courtney doesn't have a big presence there and it makes sense to fold those routes into the Thames Valley operation. I expect Reading Transport Limited will want to tread more carefully in Bracknell, where Courtney Buses is an established and well-respected name.

From 3rd November Courtney routes 2 (Slough-Dedworth), 10/10A (Dedworth-Heathrow Terminal 5), 11/11A/11S (Slough-Heathrow Terminal 5) and 15/15A (Slough-Maidenhead) will have new timetables and will be operated under the Thames Valley banner. Route 16/16A (Maidenhead-Windsor) remains a Courtney Buses route for now. A new Newbury & District-style livery will be adopted, with swathers of green on a base grey. Three new Enviro200 MMCs are being delivered for Thames Valley services.
 

Flange Squeal

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2012
Messages
1,251
At the moment, that is just the Slough area operations, Courtney doesn't have a big presence there and it makes sense to fold those routes into the Thames Valley operation. I expect Reading Transport Limited will want to tread more carefully in Bracknell, where Courtney Buses is an established and well-respected name.
The press release says this is the first stage, with other areas to follow in time.
 

AB93

Member
Joined
13 Apr 2015
Messages
308
Reported on LOTS site today that Thames Valley are coming off the 4 and 6 (evenings) from 3rd November.
First will run them again.
 

AlastairFraser

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2018
Messages
2,033
Courtney was up for sale anyway and RB bought it to protect its patch from a potentially aggressive competitor buying it instead.
Yes, I know,but some people are alleging Reading Buses doesn't compete. It clearly does,this is evidence.
 

Wirewiper

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2017
Messages
612
Location
BET & TQY
A recent significant cutback to the "Tiger" route 7 (Fleet-Reading) has seen the previously hourly service on that section (split and taken over from the Stagecoach route) reduced to a mere 5 journeys a day.
Further details here: https://handsbusblog.wordpress.com/2019/12/17/reading-reduction/

On the plus side, there are additional short journeys between Reading and Spencers Wood. Three Mile Cross and Spencers Wood also get additional buses from Monday 3rd February when the leopard routes are revised - route 9 will become part of the leopard group and will be extended to Spencers Wood, linking with route 8 (previously route 10) to form a loop.

The 3b to and from Bracknell is withdrawn from this date; it was introduced when The Lexicon shopping and leisure centre opened in September 2017 and also in anticipation of new housing development along the route, but passenger numbers have not reached a sustainable level. Journeys between Shinfield/Arborfield and Bracknell can still be made on Mondays to Saturdays by taking route 3 to Wokingham and changing to the lion 4 and X4 services.

https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/timetable-and-route-changes-mon-3-feb

From the same date, the new route 459 (Iver - Langley - Heathrow Airport Terminal 5) goes to a full seven-day-a-week operation and formally becomes the responsibility of Thames Valley Buses. It will be included in the simplySlough & Windsor ticketing zone.
 

devonexpress

Member
Joined
8 Jul 2016
Messages
279
In regard to Newbury & District what are the plans for the Kennections branding? When I last visited there before Christmas, one of the Streetlites had been repainted into N&D branding, apparently after an accident, so is it now the plan to put everything into N&D livery?
 

markymark2000

On Moderation
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
3,538
Location
Western Part of the UK
In regard to Newbury & District what are the plans for the Kennections branding? When I last visited there before Christmas, one of the Streetlites had been repainted into N&D branding, apparently after an accident, so is it now the plan to put everything into N&D livery?
I hope so. IT is so daft having operating brands for Newbury. It should be one or the other.
 

devonexpress

Member
Joined
8 Jul 2016
Messages
279
I hope so. IT is so daft having operating brands for Newbury. It should be one or the other.
What's more stupid is unlike Devon, Bristol, Bath, Taunton or most other places you can't even get a day ticket for around Newbury, there's one which you can travel Newbury to Thatcham all day long but you can't go to Wash Common etc because it's under a different company, even though Reading Buses own's both of them. What crazy person thought of that!
 

siriain

Member
Joined
25 Jan 2015
Messages
29
What's more stupid is unlike Devon, Bristol, Bath, Taunton or most other places you can't even get a day ticket for around Newbury, there's one which you can travel Newbury to Thatcham all day long but you can't go to Wash Common etc because it's under a different company, even though Reading Buses own's both of them. What crazy person thought of that!
The fares information on their website suggests otherwise.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,973
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
What's more stupid is unlike Devon, Bristol, Bath, Taunton or most other places you can't even get a day ticket for around Newbury, there's one which you can travel Newbury to Thatcham all day long but you can't go to Wash Common etc because it's under a different company, even though Reading Buses own's both of them. What crazy person thought of that!
Don’t they still do the council Connect day ticket?
 

AlastairFraser

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2018
Messages
2,033
What's more stupid is unlike Devon, Bristol, Bath, Taunton or most other places you can't even get a day ticket for around Newbury, there's one which you can travel Newbury to Thatcham all day long but you can't go to Wash Common etc because it's under a different company, even though Reading Buses own's both of them. What crazy person thought of that!
I'm afraid you're wrong my friend. Here's the evidence:https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/newbury-district . For other forum users, the text reads:"
Fares will be brought into line with Reading Buses and Kennections in the Newbury and Thatcham area, with some being increased and others reduced. This will make it easier to use tickets across all services and hopefully help encourage more people to use the buses across our various brands.

All Newbury & District routes (1a, 1c and 103) will become part of the ‘simplyNewbury & Thatcham’ area for day, 7 day and 30 day tickets which are available from the Reading Buses website, Kennections app and Reading bus shop in the Broad Street Mall, Reading.".
Fyi, if you wanted to use the whole network except the Green Line and Courtney services at the moment (Green Line is always intended to be separated but Courtney will be integrated into RB fare structures pretty soon), you could get a simply network ticket which costs £7 for adults and £4 for under 18s(21s with college or uni ID). That's not bad for potential journeys from somewhere as far out as Hungerford or East Ilsley to Bracknell or when Courtney is completely integrated, Heathrow Airport.
 

Bwsbro

Member
Joined
7 Oct 2013
Messages
390
I'm afraid you're wrong my friend. Here's the evidence:https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/newbury-district . For other forum users, the text reads:"
Fares will be brought into line with Reading Buses and Kennections in the Newbury and Thatcham area, with some being increased and others reduced. This will make it easier to use tickets across all services and hopefully help encourage more people to use the buses across our various brands.

All Newbury & District routes (1a, 1c and 103) will become part of the ‘simplyNewbury & Thatcham’ area for day, 7 day and 30 day tickets which are available from the Reading Buses website, Kennections app and Reading bus shop in the Broad Street Mall, Reading.".
Fyi, if you wanted to use the whole network except the Green Line and Courtney services at the moment (Green Line is always intended to be separated but Courtney will be integrated into RB fare structures pretty soon), you could get a simply network ticket which costs £7 for adults and £4 for under 18s(21s with college or uni ID). That's not bad for potential journeys from somewhere as far out as Hungerford or East Ilsley to Bracknell or when Courtney is completely integrated, Heathrow Airport.

Last time I travelled the 703 was included in the Network ticket to Heathrow
 

devonexpress

Member
Joined
8 Jul 2016
Messages
279
I'm afraid you're wrong my friend. Here's the evidence:https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/newbury-district . For other forum users, the text reads:"
Fares will be brought into line with Reading Buses and Kennections in the Newbury and Thatcham area, with some being increased and others reduced. This will make it easier to use tickets across all services and hopefully help encourage more people to use the buses across our various brands.

All Newbury & District routes (1a, 1c and 103) will become part of the ‘simplyNewbury & Thatcham’ area for day, 7 day and 30 day tickets which are available from the Reading Buses website, Kennections app and Reading bus shop in the Broad Street Mall, Reading.".
Fyi, if you wanted to use the whole network except the Green Line and Courtney services at the moment (Green Line is always intended to be separated but Courtney will be integrated into RB fare structures pretty soon), you could get a simply network ticket which costs £7 for adults and £4 for under 18s(21s with college or uni ID). That's not bad for potential journeys from somewhere as far out as Hungerford or East Ilsley to Bracknell or when Courtney is completely integrated, Heathrow Airport.
So why was it when I went there a few months ago and bought a 'simple Newbury & Thatcham' ticket and then tried to use it on a Kennections bus it was refused, and the driver explained to me exactly what I wrote in the comment above
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,973
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
So why was it when I went there a few months ago and bought a 'simple Newbury & Thatcham' ticket and then tried to use it on a Kennections bus it was refused, and the driver explained to me exactly what I wrote in the comment above
Which is why it pays to do your research and print off the appropriate web page/leaflet etc. Drivers don't always take on board such changes.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Which is why it pays to do your research and print off the appropriate web page/leaflet etc. Drivers don't always take on board such changes.
Perhaps they don't, but why should it be necessary to go to what should be absolutely unnecessary lengths to get what you're entitled to? It seems, just as with Train Operating Companies, they're allowed to get away with this sort of thing. A few well-publicised court cases brought by Trading Standards Officers, with deterrent fines, would help to put this sort of nonsense to bed.
 

darloscott

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2013
Messages
772
Location
Stockton
Perhaps they don't, but why should it be necessary to go to what should be absolutely unnecessary lengths to get what you're entitled to? It seems, just as with Train Operating Companies, they're allowed to get away with this sort of thing. A few well-publicised court cases brought by Trading Standards Officers, with deterrent fines, would help to put this sort of nonsense to bed.

As a driver myself and having worked for a few big companies not everyone knows every boundary etc for each ticket we sell. In one job I did our network was so big we sold 27 different day tickets - me taking an interest knew about most of them but those for who it was ‘just a job’ likely didn’t know half as much as myself...
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
As a driver myself and having worked for a few big companies not everyone knows every boundary etc for each ticket we sell. In one job I did our network was so big we sold 27 different day tickets - me taking an interest knew about most of them but those for who it was ‘just a job’ likely didn’t know half as much as myself...
But it shouldn't be up to the driver in those circumstances to be the judge and jury as to what is acceptable: they should either have up-to-date instructions they can refer to or have access to an immediate (but correct!) back office person, as with Parking Enforcement Officers. The COMPANIES are to blame for this state of affairs, and I can see little excuse for paying passengers taking the rap.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
19,973
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
But it shouldn't be up to the driver in those circumstances to be the judge and jury as to what is acceptable: they should either have up-to-date instructions they can refer to or have access to an immediate (but correct!) back office person, as with Parking Enforcement Officers. The COMPANIES are to blame for this state of affairs, and I can see little excuse for paying passengers taking the rap.
Appreciate that but you can train drivers and brief them but for some, you could tattoo stuff on their hand and they’d still not see it.

It isn’t all down to the company.
 
Last edited:

richard13

Member
Joined
20 Jan 2019
Messages
121
I think you all need to be aware that Newbury and District and Kennections appear to be different legal entities but both part of Reading Buses.

Kennections is an operation set up by Reading buses to run the contracts they won from West Berkshire Council (routes 2,3,4,6,8,9). Until those contracts expire (I presume) they still have to charge the West Berkshire fares as per the contracts; see Reading routes and kennections (https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/kennections) and the link to West Berkshire Connect fares (https://info.westberks.gov.uk/connect). West Berkshire has an app for these and a timetable / fare book to download. The Reading 'simple Newbury & Thatcham' area was set up just for the Reading Buses route Jet Black 1.

Newbury and District (1a, 1c, 103) when later taken over by Reading Buses, was able to negotiate (?) the integration of the fares with the existing Reading Buses route 1 (Jet Black) as they compliment each other. The Jet Black fares were also changed at that time to make it work. Hence you can use the 'simple Newbury & Thatcham' tickets on all these routes. However the Connect tickets are also valid on the Jet Black 1, 1a, 1c and 103 within West Berkshire!

I have not worked out how the different fares work out and which is the best for what. I am not local.

This and other Newbury issues will probably be resolved when the current Kennections contracts expire.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
Appreciate that but you can train drivers and brief them but for some, you could tattoo stuff on their hand and they’d still not see it.

It isn’t all down to the company.
I too can appreciate what you're saying, but just imagine this scenario. A bus company advertises a rover ticket, be it on website, on leaflet, whatever, extolling its virtues on unlimited travel in a certain area, for 'only' £X (it's always 'only' to imply you're getting a great bargain, but that's another matter!) but adds, among the verbiage, 'we reserve the right for one of our employees, or agents, to refuse you valid travel on any bus service covered by purchase of this ticket, without warning or redress'. Then how many would they sell, or, alternatively, would not Trading Standards step in? It's an indefensible attitude imo.
 

siriain

Member
Joined
25 Jan 2015
Messages
29
Ultimately it's down to the quality of the company management and the adequacy of staff training. The retail industry is also known to suffer similar issues.
 

richard13

Member
Joined
20 Jan 2019
Messages
121
So why was it when I went there a few months ago and bought a 'simple Newbury & Thatcham' ticket and then tried to use it on a Kennections bus it was refused, and the driver explained to me exactly what I wrote in the comment above

The Kennections Driver was quite correct. The Kennections routes are West Berkshire Council contracts and only except West Berkshire Connect fares.

The fares on the Newbury & District routes 1a, 1c and 103 and Reading Black Jet 1 were all modified from 22 April 2019 to use both Connect fares and 'simply Newbury and Thatcham' area tickets. See Reading Buses news item for 11 April 2019. https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/minor-jet-black-fares-change and news for 8 April 2019 https://www.reading-buses.co.uk/newbury-district-changes .

See also my piece above at 20:45 today 31/1/2020
 

carlberry

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2014
Messages
3,169
I too can appreciate what you're saying, but just imagine this scenario. A bus company advertises a rover ticket, be it on website, on leaflet, whatever, extolling its virtues on unlimited travel in a certain area, for 'only' £X (it's always 'only' to imply you're getting a great bargain, but that's another matter!) but adds, among the verbiage, 'we reserve the right for one of our employees, or agents, to refuse you valid travel on any bus service covered by purchase of this ticket, without warning or redress'. Then how many would they sell, or, alternatively, would not Trading Standards step in? It's an indefensible attitude imo.
It's not defensible however it will happen!
Some drivers wont understand part 3 of subsection 2 of their company rules in the same way some shopkeepers will serve underage children cigarettes and some car drivers will drive at 21.5 mph in a 20mph zone.
It's wrong, it's report able but just saying it shouldn't happen isn't going to change reality.
With the more professional operators (and I'd include Reading under that) reporting the issue (if it's actually a fault by the driver) will usually get an apology and some compensation and, sometimes, some feedback to the drivers to stop it happening again.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,029
It's not defensible however it will happen!
Some drivers wont understand part 3 of subsection 2 of their company rules in the same way some shopkeepers will serve underage children cigarettes and some car drivers will drive at 21.5 mph in a 20mph zone.
It's wrong, it's report able but just saying it shouldn't happen isn't going to change reality.
With the more professional operators (and I'd include Reading under that) reporting the issue (if it's actually a fault by the driver) will usually get an apology and some compensation and, sometimes, some feedback to the drivers to stop it happening again.
Shops regularly get prosecuted for selling booze and fags to the underaged, and can lose their alcohol licence; I believe the fines can be quite high too, supposedly as a deterrent, and, if you're unlucky, you can be prosecuted for exceeding the speed limit by a tiny amount, as I know to my cost from about 25 years ago, my first speeding ticket.
 

Top