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Manchester Metrolink - Trafford Centre Extension

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507 001

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A cornbrook shuttle would be even better! Probably only takes 30 minutes to do a round-trip, so two could get you a 15 minute service? That's not a huge amount off the network.



Ahh, I didn't realise the T68's were in such bad nick. Why do they keep them around?

The mediacity metrolink connection is super slow, I saw how close the Trafford Park Extension is to it and have wondered how much more convenient it would be! Any idea what the time savings might be like? The walk from the Imperial War Museum stop looks to be between 5-10 minutes to the other side of the Quays.

Looking at how much is around the line, including Old Trafford, this looks like it's going to be incredibly well used, from day one.

Anyone got any idea what service patterns will look like once all the new trams arrive?

Nobody really knows for sure what the plans for them are. I know at one point it was intended to use 2001 as an engineering tram (still needed!) and the others had potential homes. Nothing ever materialised. The rest of the fleet (bar 4 at Long Marston for UKtram) was scrapped a few years ago, alongside the LUL C stock, which was considerably older!

I’m not sure of the run times, but it’s going to be two stops at 30mph, compared to 5 at 10mph. The wall across the bridge is relatively quick, and actually brings you out in a better location for ITV I have heard.

As for service pattern, it’ll be the standard 12 minute service with singles at first. I believe that the intention is for doubles to start appearing at some point.
 
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Jozhua

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Nobody really knows for sure what the plans for them are. I know at one point it was intended to use 2001 as an engineering tram (still needed!) and the others had potential homes. Nothing ever materialised. The rest of the fleet (bar 4 at Long Marston for UKtram) was scrapped a few years ago, alongside the LUL C stock, which was considerably older!

I’m not sure of the run times, but it’s going to be two stops at 30mph, compared to 5 at 10mph. The wall across the bridge is relatively quick, and actually brings you out in a better location for ITV I have heard.

As for service pattern, it’ll be the standard 12 minute service with singles at first. I believe that the intention is for doubles to start appearing at some point.

Yes, less stops and higher speeds, the mediacity extension defiantly feels like it was weaved through the area on a budget. There's a couple of very tight corners the tram basically crawls through! Not much better as it goes towards Eccles either...

I wouldn't be surprised if the Trafford Line takes quite a bit of the Mediacity ridership. I reckon many will take the extra few minutes riding time for the convenience of not having to walk across though. Then some will probably hop on whatever tram goes west!
 

Ianno87

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Yes, less stops and higher speeds, the mediacity extension defiantly feels like it was weaved through the area on a budget. There's a couple of very tight corners the tram basically crawls through! Not much better as it goes towards Eccles either...

I wouldn't be surprised if the Trafford Line takes quite a bit of the Mediacity ridership. I reckon many will take the extra few minutes riding time for the convenience of not having to walk across though. Then some will probably hop on whatever tram goes west!

The Eccles line does seem to have been done on the basis of lots of frequent stips to maximise access to every nook and cranny of Salford Quays...almost DLR style, but minimise demolition along the way - hence the slow twisty ramp between Salford Quays and Anchorage (should the offices it avoids ever get redeveloped there'd be a real chance to straighten out the alignment there)

The IWM/MCU split will be interesting to observe. Heading west probably a case of getting whichever tram is first. Heading back east there'll be the speed vs getting a seat factor.
 

WatcherZero

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If the loads even each other out im sure they will be happy from a capacity planning perspective.
 

Richard P

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Eccles trams are packed like sardines in a morning largely due to the fact that they are only ever single units - at one time doubles were used but I don't see any now. Around the Media City area two new blocks of flats have just been completed, neither of which have car parking which will add to loads from Media City no doubt on that extension and plans have now been passed for another 14 story block of flats on the land that is currently the car park outside Booths so no shortage of potential customers!

Plan on the new extension to the Trafford Centre is single units ever 12 minutes from Crumpsall plus additional trams on Old Trafford match days but these will only go as far as the Imperial War Museum stop and then return, a siding to facilitate that turnaround has been installed at the bottom of Warren Bruce Road
 
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507 001

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The Eccles line does seem to have been done on the basis of lots of frequent stips to maximise access to every nook and cranny of Salford Quays...almost DLR style, but minimise demolition along the way - hence the slow twisty ramp between Salford Quays and Anchorage (should the offices it avoids ever get redeveloped there'd be a real chance to straighten out the alignment there)

The IWM/MCU split will be interesting to observe. Heading west probably a case of getting whichever tram is first. Heading back east there'll be the speed vs getting a seat factor.

The office block you mention (adjacent to Furness Withy Ramp) is currently being redeveloped into flats. This includes a significant new building in the middle of the half circle made up of the old buildings.
 

Richard P

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Daytime running now underway for anyone who wants to take a look - previously only night time running had been taking place. Not sure of frequency or number of trams involved as it's only started today (19/12) and it's still slow running tests at the moment. Extension is due to open apparently in April so expect full tram testing I guess to start maybe in February?
 

Richard P

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A further update now from my weekly TfGM E Mail: "Overnight tram testing will take place across the project route from Sunday 5 January – Thursday 23 January (Sun-Thurs only) from 20:00 to 06:00, static road closures and rolling road blocks with localised diversions will be implemented during this period". So at least for now the day time testing seems to have been a "one-off"
 

Chester1

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It is interesting that services will initially run only between Pomona and Trafford Centre. Its one of the least used stops on the network meaning it will see a massive spike in usage! I think that the third platform at Crumpsall stop needs to be completed before the full service can run. Both services that start and terminate at Piccadilly and the Airport line service (starting and terminating at Victoria) run on Sundays and off peak which means there is not terminating capacity spare to launch with some city centre services.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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It is interesting that services will initially run only between Pomona and Trafford Centre. Its one of the least used stops on the network meaning it will see a massive spike in usage! I think that the third platform at Crumpsall stop needs to be completed before the full service can run.

Has anyone any updated news concerning the terminal Crumpsall third platform that will serve the Trafford Centre line?
 

Chester1

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Has anyone any updated news concerning the terminal Crumpsall third platform that will serve the Trafford Centre line?

Not seen anything recently. I think part of the reason for delaying a full service is a shortage of rolling stock. I think the additional trams are due to enter service from August. The lack of full Sunday services from launch does indicate Crumpsall stop will not be ready for April and that it is the biggest problem.
 

507 001

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It is interesting that services will initially run only between Pomona and Trafford Centre. Its one of the least used stops on the network meaning it will see a massive spike in usage! I think that the third platform at Crumpsall stop needs to be completed before the full service can run. Both services that start and terminate at Piccadilly and the Airport line service (starting and terminating at Victoria) run on Sundays and off peak which means there is not terminating capacity spare to launch with some city centre services.

The service is likely to run between Cornbrook and the Trafford Centre. Pomona has no turnback facilities, so sets would have to run to Cornbrook anyway.

Crumpsall is complete, and fully operational. It has been for around 2 months now.
 

Richard P

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To answer points raised above:
1) Trams won't only be running to Pomona - that's not a viable interchange, maybe some confusion as testing is taking place to and from Pomona at present?
2) Crumpsall as mentioned above is complete, indeed there was a tram stabled in platform 3 one Saturday when I went through there recently - if you check out the Metrolink website there's a time lapse film of the work there to completion
3) The extension is actually scheduled to open early in April not later than planned
4) Where has the "no Sunday service" information come from? Plan I have seen is to run 7 days a week
5) Equally the plan is to run the full service from day one from Crumpsall - again no idea where the perception has come from that trams will run from Cornbrook?
 

Greybeard33

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5) Equally the plan is to run the full service from day one from Crumpsall - again no idea where the perception has come from that trams will run from Cornbrook?
That "perception" has come from the Manchester Evening News story that announced the April opening:
Services will initially run from Cornbrook through Pomona to the Trafford Centre every 12 minutes, with trams running through to Crumpsall before the end of the year, when the project was originally due to complete.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...er-news/new-trafford-park-line-april-17450443

Running from Crumpsall, before the (delayed) new trams are available, would mean reducing the number of double trams on existing routes and so cause severe overcrowding.
 

Chester1

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That "perception" has come from the Manchester Evening News story that announced the April opening:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...er-news/new-trafford-park-line-april-17450443

Running from Crumpsall, before the (delayed) new trams are available, would mean reducing the number of double trams on existing routes and so cause severe overcrowding.

I could have sworn that it didn't include "Cornbrook via" when I read it! It did strike me as a bit odd. Cornbrook does make more sense although still barely adequate.

To answer points raised above:
1) Trams won't only be running to Pomona - that's not a viable interchange, maybe some confusion as testing is taking place to and from Pomona at present?
2) Crumpsall as mentioned above is complete, indeed there was a tram stabled in platform 3 one Saturday when I went through there recently - if you check out the Metrolink website there's a time lapse film of the work there to completion
3) The extension is actually scheduled to open early in April not later than planned
4) Where has the "no Sunday service" information come from? Plan I have seen is to run 7 days a week
5) Equally the plan is to run the full service from day one from Crumpsall - again no idea where the perception has come from that trams will run from Cornbrook?

I said no "full" service on Sunday. If the MEN is correct there will be no full service all week until later in the year. A lack of rolling stock would explain the delay to running Crumpsall to Trafford Centre Monday to Friday. Running more single units should be manageable on Saturday as long as current match day capacity can be maintained. It will be disappointing if Trafford Centre does not have a direct tram link with the city centre on its busiest day of the week until later in the year. Unless there is an infrastructure problem somewhere then the decision to not run between Crumpsall and Trafford Centre on Sundays from day 1 will be to save money. There is spare rolling stock on Sundays and there is demand, particularly as both the Bury and Eccles/Media City lines run at half frequency.
 

507 001

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I could have sworn that it didn't include "Cornbrook via" when I read it! It did strike me as a bit odd. Cornbrook does make more sense although still barely adequate.



I said no "full" service on Sunday. If the MEN is correct there will be no full service all week until later in the year. A lack of rolling stock would explain the delay to running Crumpsall to Trafford Centre Monday to Friday. Running more single units should be manageable on Saturday as long as current match day capacity can be maintained. It will be disappointing if Trafford Centre does not have a direct tram link with the city centre on its busiest day of the week until later in the year. Unless there is an infrastructure problem somewhere then the decision to not run between Crumpsall and Trafford Centre on Sundays from day 1 will be to save money. There is spare rolling stock on Sundays and there is demand, particularly as both the Bury and Eccles/Media City lines run at half frequency.


Firstly we do a lot of vehicle maintenance on Sundays, so there may not be as much spare capacity as it seems.
The priority has to be protecting the weekday service on the rest of the system. Whilst people are getting used to the line (both staff and the general public) it’s probably best to use the minimum number of LRVs that we can.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I took a telephone call last week from the Metrolink department in TfGM in which it was confirmed that the springtime service opening will definitely be from Cornbrook, as it has interchange facilities with many other Metrolink lines. That is most logical, especially as there is the turn-back siding just past the stop which once the Manchester Airport service used in its original and first stage operation.

Looks like Crumpsall will have a Metrolink "Christmas Present" in terms of the full service operation.
 

markymark2000

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I took a telephone call last week from the Metrolink department in TfGM in which it was confirmed that the springtime service opening will definitely be from Cornbrook, as it has interchange facilities with many other Metrolink lines. That is most logical, especially as there is the turn-back siding just past the stop which once the Manchester Airport service used in its original and first stage operation.

Looks like Crumpsall will have a Metrolink "Christmas Present" in terms of the full service operation.
I wonder if it will be extended to Deansgate when it has settled in. That is what the Airport line did.
 

507 001

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I wonder if it will be extended to Deansgate when it has settled in. That is what the Airport line did.

No. Deansgate can’t cope with a single inbound platform now that the Airports run through and the ORL is every 6 mins.
 

Greybeard33

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And has a lower turnover of passengers.
Cornbrook has a lot of interchange passengers (e.g. commuters to MCUK and the Quays) who do not show up in entry/exit statistics. Do you have evidence that platform dwell times at Deansgate-Castlefield are any longer than at Cornbrook? That is not my experience as a passenger.
 

507 001

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All the trams that run through Deansgate-Castlefield also run through the single inbound platform at Cornbrook, which copes just fine!

Its nothing to do with passenger numbers or dwell times. It’s due to the way the signalling is set up.

Basically the first tram to arrive defaults to the inbound, the next (if the inbound platform is occupied) will be routed onto the centre road. A third tram would normally be routed onto the inbound, provided that the first tram is sat on the appropriate TMS loop. If it isn’t, then a route can’t be given from the signal at the end of the birdcage because the signalling system doesn’t know how full the platform is.
Due to it being able to function as a turnback, the Centre platform can only take one tram at a time. If either platform is out of use for any extended period of time, queues start to build up on the Birdcage. Admittedly it’s far worse if the inbound is out of action for any reason, but a lot of flexibility is lost if the centre road is used as a turnback.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Earlier in the thread, @Jozhua made mention of the three former Metrolink use T68 trams, which appeared to be a permanent fixture on the back siding lines of the depot, but very recently, I noted all three of them had been moved from that location.

What has happened to them?
 

Vespa

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Earlier in the thread, @Jozhua made mention of the three former Metrolink use T68 trams, which appeared to be a permanent fixture on the back siding lines of the depot, but very recently, I noted all three of them had been moved from that location.

What has happened to them?

Good chance they have been scrapped, they were suffering corrosion of the solebars, only one is preserved, 1007 Heaton Park Tramway Society owns it.
 

507 001

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Good chance they have been scrapped, they were suffering corrosion of the solebars, only one is preserved, 1007 Heaton Park Tramway Society owns it.

Two have been preserved, both by Heaton Park. 1007 will be staying where it is for the time being (inside the shed at Trafford) and 1023 will be moving to Crewe heritage centre on behalf of Heaton Park.

1020 and 2001 are the two remaining ones. These will be cut up on site at Trafford in the next couple of weeks.

They’re being cut now to make space for the first new arrivals.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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There was a new lifting bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal that suffered a disaster some time ago. Was this supposed to be part of a future extension to the Trafford Centre Metrolink line and has there been any recent news concerning the said lifting bridge?
 
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There was a new lifting bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal that suffered a disaster some time ago. Was this supposed to be part of a future extension to the Trafford Centre Metrolink line and has there been any recent news concerning the said lifting bridge?
lifting bridge has been operating for approx. 2years nothing to do with Trafford centre metrolink
 
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