F Great Eastern
Established Member
It would make no business sense for ADL to do that in a tender competition where Volvo had no chance to otherwise win.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion
- Thread starter Jordan Adam
- Start date
It would make no business sense for ADL to do that in a tender competition where Volvo had no chance to otherwise win.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
cnjb8
Established Member
Yes but ADL put themselves up for the tender, maybe because Wright went into administration. By then, it's too late for Volvo to go to ADL
Snow1964
Established Member
Doesn’t seem to be any London Operators getting them now though, although 2 for RATP were not delivered when Wrightbus collapsed.
Are Volvo still making the B5LH chassis, as they were looking to move to intregals and electric buses for Europe some time ago.
cnjb8
Established Member
Metroline still purchase them but may switch to ADL now they have the E400EV.
RATP now seem to be leaning toward ADL.
GoAhead London and Tower Transit purchased their last ones in 2017.
Stagecoach purchased their last ones in 2015.
Mikey C
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 6,853
Isn't the issue for most operators that with TfL reducing frequencies AND a number of routes gaining electric double deckers, there isn't at the moment a great need to buy many diesel double deckers now. Indeed very few routes seem to be tendered requiring new diesel buses full stop. How many non electric E400s have entered service recently?
Wrightbus missed out on major deal with Republic's transport authority
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...h-republics-transport-authority-38911876.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...h-republics-transport-authority-38911876.html
F Great Eastern
Established Member
Some of the ill informed / spun reports in the British press about them missing out on this order are highly inaccurate.
There was something in the local Belfast press saying that the only people who could be in the race are ADL and Wright, who have won every single tender for double decker buses in Ireland for the last 10 years. These are people who do not understand the industry or what they are talking about.
Wright have NEVER tendered for double deckers in Ireland. Not now, not last year, not ever. The over 1,000 Geminis delivered to Ireland over the past few years have been done so on the basis of Volvo bids who subcontract Wright, it has always been Volvo's name on the tender.
Also the Belfast Telegraph talks about the 3 Streetdecks that have been on trial with Dublin Bus, in addition to the 3 ADL HEV Enviro 400 MMCs but forgets to mention the fact that there were also the same number of Gemini 3 HEV based B5LH on trial with Dublin Bus, which according to all reports have been the most reliable, efficient and most robust of all three fleets.
I have heard from several sources that the other contender would have been a Volvo bid with Wright as subcontractors and I find it difficult to believe anything else would be possible, bearing in mind the history of those two companies relationship, the Volvo aftersales service in Ireland and the performance of the B5LH which it was clear many people in high places were fond of.
There was something in the local Belfast press saying that the only people who could be in the race are ADL and Wright, who have won every single tender for double decker buses in Ireland for the last 10 years. These are people who do not understand the industry or what they are talking about.
Wright have NEVER tendered for double deckers in Ireland. Not now, not last year, not ever. The over 1,000 Geminis delivered to Ireland over the past few years have been done so on the basis of Volvo bids who subcontract Wright, it has always been Volvo's name on the tender.
Also the Belfast Telegraph talks about the 3 Streetdecks that have been on trial with Dublin Bus, in addition to the 3 ADL HEV Enviro 400 MMCs but forgets to mention the fact that there were also the same number of Gemini 3 HEV based B5LH on trial with Dublin Bus, which according to all reports have been the most reliable, efficient and most robust of all three fleets.
I have heard from several sources that the other contender would have been a Volvo bid with Wright as subcontractors and I find it difficult to believe anything else would be possible, bearing in mind the history of those two companies relationship, the Volvo aftersales service in Ireland and the performance of the B5LH which it was clear many people in high places were fond of.
Snow1964
Established Member
TfL have a policy of zero emission for all single decks from Autumn 2020, most single deck deliveries are already electric (but there are a few 9m single door diesel buses on order which will probably be last pure diesel buses for London).
Virtually all double decks now being delivered are smart hybrid or electric. Full hybrid went out of fashion last summer. There are also 20 hydrogen double decks which Wrightbus were supposed to deliver this Spring (not sure if it will happen, or be delayed).
Plenty of E400s (Stagecoach is just starting delivery of 59), but these are smart hybrid, not pure diesel. Don’t think any Volvo chassis deckers have entered service since summer 2019. TfL haven’t yet announced a date for zero emission for new double decks.
iantherev
Member
Only because Powys CC ordered 12 for Stagecoach. Over the last year Lloyd’s have ordered MMCs, Richards the other Volvo/MCV and NAT have more Optares on order.
cnjb8
Established Member
Another blow for Wrightbus,
15 ADL Enviro400 MMCs for GoNorth Easts X1.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffh2067/status/1223614837684609024
15 ADL Enviro400 MMCs for GoNorth Easts X1.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffh2067/status/1223614837684609024
And have you read the rest of the twitter page? It clearly states that the Streetdecks are still due.
cnjb8
Established Member
Yes it clearly does. What I clearly mean is that this would have clearly been a order for Wright
Mikey C
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 6,853
To an extent, that new E400Hs are being delivered and not B5LHs is down to the operators buying buses, with Stagecoach being nearly 100% ADL, and skewed by the first 2 routes with electric double deckers being Metroline ones
It's a massive step to go to all new single decks being electric, as it requires masses of expensive infrastructure work in the garages, I worry that we'll end up with an elderly fleet of diesel single deckers in London, as operators struggle with the upgrades necessary to go all electric, and TfL struggle with the cost...
Snow1964
Established Member
Optare have won order from Tower Transit for Metrodecker EVs for London routes 23 and C3
https://www.route-one.net/business-deals/tower-transit-orders-37-optare-metrodecker-evs/
https://www.route-one.net/business-deals/tower-transit-orders-37-optare-metrodecker-evs/
Jordan Adam
Established Member
And the chances of them actually being built and delivered in a reasonable time is about equivalent to the chances of FirstGroup buying out Stagecoach...
fgwrich
Established Member
I was thinking that. 1 1/2 years in and still no sign of the Reading Buses Metrodeckers either - I bet they're wishing they'd just put the order ADLs way now.
cnjb8
Established Member
Well they were already delayed before Wrights went under and now have issues with parts that have delayed them even further. Now Wrights are up and running, it will be ok
And why would Wrights being in trouble have anything to do with Optare?! They are two completely separate companies with no relation whatsoever.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
The buses were ordered in June 2018, long before Wrights went under! They keep claiming dates that they'll be delivered by and each time the date comes and goes. The current rumoured date is now some point in March, but it'll probably have changed to April by this time next week...
Busaholic
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Jun 2014
- Messages
- 14,087
It'd be remarkably remiss of Optare if there's any significant delay to this order, as it's their possible entree to the London scene for the foreseeable future, and their success might well ensure the survival of the firm in the long term.
cnjb8
Established Member
They both ordered from the same parts company who reduced their output when Wright went under
They would only reduce the output of parts being supplied to Wrights, not both companies.
cnjb8
Established Member
No, they reduced their entire output. It's already been discussed in detail
Discussed where? Links? Sources? Evidence? Quotes? No manufacturing company in their right mind would reduce supply to one customer because another has got into difficulty.
Robertj21a
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 7,520
Not sure that is correct. I thought that Reading had asked for some further modifications, and agreed a revised delivery schedule for them.
Mikey C
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 6,853
Nice to see something different,but a brave choice by TT to order Optares
Agree it is good that someone else has ordered the Metrodecker, but why a brave choice? I thought that the bus was lighter than the E400EV and had better range, and am surprised that it wasn't selling better.
Mikey C
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 6,853
The ones for Metroline have had a troubled introduction. To an extent it's because they're behind BYD in terms of practical experience, both with the large fleets of E200EVs in service, but also those ugly BYD double deckers that ran on the 98!
Goldfish62
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,039
The Metro City electrics currently in service with Arriva in London have a far lower range than the single deck BYDs. Add to that Optare's reputation for unreliability and late delivery I'm surprised they actually have any orders.