TFL Fare evasion prosecution

Khall12 · 2 Feb 2020

Hi,

I have seen lots of older posts regarding TFL prosecution for fare evasion and people getting out of court settlements, however I have never seen anyone where their case has actually been to court and then getting a criminal conviction? Can someone confirm if anyone has actually been to court and got a criminal conviction and the circumstances please?

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J4u4u2c · 2 Feb 2020

Yes I just got my outcomes form
Court where I pleaded guilty for a fare evasion- I got an absolute discharge as a result where I only had to pay court fine of £225 and didn’t have to pay for TFL fine as I believe i made a good plea.

Khall12 · 2 Feb 2020

J4u4u2c said:
Yes I just got my outcomes form
Court where I pleaded guilty for a fare evasion- I got an absolute discharge as a result where I only had to pay court fine of £225 and didn’t have to pay for TFL fine as I believe i made a good plea.

Do you mind if I ask what your plea was and if it was a one off or if you had done it before?

J4u4u2c · 2 Feb 2020

If I am honest I used a freedom pass (not mine) for over a year, even then I was still able to just come out of it with a small fine and absolute discharge so to put it in laymans terms i got a slap on the wrist. I tried getting hold of a Solictor and he said I would need to pay in excess of over £1,000 so I thought sod it, I will take my chances and write an amazing plea...

Khall12 · 2 Feb 2020

Oh okay! My sister used someone else’s staff pass for 2 weeks, they are taking her to court and when she tried to settle out of court TFL said no, she is pleading guilty but is worried she will get a criminal record so is wondering if she should get a fare evasion solicitor involved? Did you attend court? She has received a letter on Friday to say she has to attend now there’s no option. So she’s worried about that now!

J4u4u2c · 2 Feb 2020

Is it possible to upload the letter she received, if she is being prosecuted under byLaws then she will get a non recordable criminal record which wouldn’t show up when her employer does a DBS check, but will appear on the PNC.
Depending on the severity and her plea she can get away with it. As i said i used someone elses freedom pass for over a year and only got a court cost fine of £225 not even TFL.

Khall12 · 2 Feb 2020

It says “contrary to Byelaw 17(1) of the Transport for London Railway Byelaws Made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the Greater London Authority Act 1999 and confirmed under Section 67 of the Transport Act 1962”

J4u4u2c · 2 Feb 2020

If she used it for two weeks but can make a good plea can potentially get away with a slap on the wrist. I appealed guilty online and gave all my supporting evidence with it. The judge was very lenient towards me, I didnt even have to pay the fine for using it the whole year

Khall12 · 2 Feb 2020

Okay - thanks for your help. You were lucky then. 2 weeks seems like nothing compared to yours lol!

mikeg · 2 Feb 2020

If its a byelaw offence and that's the only offence then no it shouldn't be recordable. Count yourself lucky, it could easily have been a regulation of railways act offence in which case it would mean a criminal record. To clarify, the record is created by the offence you are convicted of, not as part of sentencing so the magistrates or judge have no discretion as to whether its recorded. I assume this is the only offence with which you are charged?

Khall12 · 2 Feb 2020

That is all it says on the requisition so I am pretty sure that’s it. Doesn’t mention the regulation of railways act anywhere so fingers crossed!

Islineclear3_1 · 3 Feb 2020

Remember, each case is treated on an individual basis so don't get complacent

Puffing Devil · 4 Feb 2020

An Absolute Discharge is still a conviction; the court may feel that the experience of coming to court and the costs are enough of a punishment.

najaB · 4 Feb 2020

Khall12 said:
Can someone confirm if anyone has actually been to court and got a criminal conviction and the circumstances please?

Here are 23 examples: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/23-prosecutions-in-bristol.197492/

Mojo · 6 Feb 2020

Khall12 said:
Hi,

I have seen lots of older posts regarding TFL prosecution for fare evasion and people getting out of court settlements, however I have never seen anyone where their case has actually been to court and then getting a criminal conviction? Can someone confirm if anyone has actually been to court and got a criminal conviction and the circumstances please?

It depends on the offence that someone is being charged for.

Railway operators will often deal with cases of travel irregularity under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, specifically section 5(3). This would lead to a criminal record. The difficulty with this is that they have to prove intent (ie. that you intended to make a journey and not ever pay for it).

The second option is Byelaw 18(1), which is a "Strict liability" offence. The fact that you are on board a train without a valid ticket, and without a recognised defence, is sufficient grounds to breach this. This is still a criminal conviction however is non-recordable.

The third option is TfL Railway Byelaw 17, however this is only applicable to services covered by the TfL Railway Byelaws, that is to say London Underground, DLR, TfL Rail and London Overground (Tramlink has its own separate Byelaws which can also be prosecuted under), and does not apply at National Rail stations (even those that have LU services, such as Barking). This is the same as above, a non-recordable offence and Strict liability, whereby someone's presence in a Compulsory ticket area without a recognised defence, is sufficient grounds.

A Penalty fare is a civil means of disposal and is not recordable anywhere other than on the computer system of the train operator (or the company they contract to manage their Penalty fare admin). Companies may also consider other legislation going down the fraud route, however this is not really relevant.

Khall12 · 6 Feb 2020

Mojo said:
It depends on the offence that someone is being charged for.

Railway operators will often deal with cases of travel irregularity under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, specifically section 5(3). This would lead to a criminal record. The difficulty with this is that they have to prove intent (ie. that you intended to make a journey and not ever pay for it).

The second option is Byelaw 18(1), which is a "Strict liability" offence. The fact that you are on board a train without a valid ticket, and without a recognised defence, is sufficient grounds to breach this. This is still a criminal conviction however is non-recordable.

The third option is TfL Railway Byelaw 17, however this is only applicable to services covered by the TfL Railway Byelaws, that is to say London Underground, DLR, TfL Rail and London Overground (Tramlink has its own separate Byelaws which can also be prosecuted under), and does not apply at National Rail stations (even those that have LU services, such as Barking). This is the same as above, a non-recordable offence and Strict liability, whereby someone's presence in a Compulsory ticket area without a recognised defence, is sufficient grounds.

A Penalty fare is a civil means of disposal and is not recordable anywhere other than on the computer system of the train operator (or the company they contract to manage their Penalty fare admin). Companies may also consider other legislation going down the fraud route, however this is not really relevant.

Thanks for this, I understand it more now you have explained. Mine is the Byelaw 17(1) - depending on the outcome would I have to disclose this to my employer?

thanks,

30907 · 6 Feb 2020

Khall12 said:
Thanks for this, I understand it more now you have explained. Mine is the Byelaw 17(1) - depending on the outcome would I have to disclose this to my employer?

thanks,

Depends entirely on your sister's employer's policy. Standard advice here is: not disclosing when asked is unwise.

Snow1964 · 6 Feb 2020

Khall12 said:
Oh okay! My sister used someone else’s staff pass for 2 weeks, they are taking her to court and when she tried to settle out of court TFL said no, she is pleading guilty but is worried she will get a criminal record so is wondering if she should get a fare evasion solicitor involved? Did you attend court? She has received a letter on Friday to say she has to attend now there’s no option. So she’s worried about that now!

By taking it to court would make it much easier to sack the employee who lent the pass for a misbehaviour type reason, without notice or compensation.

I would take a punt that she will be let off if the troublesome employee refunds TfL the cost of fare and resigns

30907 · 6 Feb 2020

Snow1964 said:
By taking it to court would make it much easier to sack the employee who lent the pass for a misbehaviour type reason, without notice or compensation.

I would take a punt that she will be let off if the troublesome employee refunds TfL the cost of fare and resigns

While I don't know anything about TfL's disciplinary procedures, I would have thought that they have enough evidence to take action without taking the case to court; it is being prosecuted as a Byelaw offence related to a single occasion of travel without a valid ticket. The question of what ticket was misused may not even be raised in court as I assume the OP's sister will plead guilty.

Snow1964 · 6 Feb 2020

30907 said:
While I don't know anything about TfL's disciplinary procedures, I would have thought that they have enough evidence to take action without taking the case to court; it is being prosecuted as a Byelaw offence related to a single occasion of travel without a valid ticket. The question of what ticket was misused may not even be raised in court as I assume the OP's sister will plead guilty.

Sorry I misunderstood, thought it was a staff pass valid for journey, but not for the person using it on that journey, therefore type of ticket was relevant, as its not a case of no ticket.

Mojo · 6 Feb 2020

30907 said:
While I don't know anything about TfL's disciplinary procedures, I would have thought that they have enough evidence to take action without taking the case to court; it is being prosecuted as a Byelaw offence related to a single occasion of travel without a valid ticket. The question of what ticket was misused may not even be raised in court as I assume the OP's sister will plead guilty.

It isn't clear if the staff member is even aware that their pass was misused; they may have lost it and someone picked it up or similar. Also, TfL staff passes are not only issued to TfL staff but also to staff of London Underground, as well as employees of various private companies such as Arriva Rail London, First Tram Operations and so on whom all have their own disciplinary policies. Bus company staff and nominees also get their own passes with similar validity but which are not valid on National Rail trains except Overground and TfL Rail.

Khall12 · 10 Feb 2020

Has anyone actually been to a magistrates court for their case and know what the process is and what should she should be expected to say or do?

thanks,

Puffing Devil · 10 Feb 2020

Khall12 said:
Has anyone actually been to a magistrates court for their case and know what the process is and what should she should be expected to say or do?

thanks,

Are you planning to plead guilty or not guilty?

Khall12 · 10 Feb 2020

Puffing Devil said:
Are you planning to plead guilty or not guilty?

Guilty

30907 · 10 Feb 2020

Mojo said:
It isn't clear if the staff member is even aware that their pass was misused; they may have lost it and someone picked it up or similar. Also, TfL staff passes are not only issued to TfL staff but also to staff of London Underground, as well as employees of various private companies such as Arriva Rail London, First Tram Operations and so on whom all have their own disciplinary policies. Bus company staff and nominees also get their own passes with similar validity but which are not valid on National Rail trains except Overground and TfL Rail.

Thanks for clarifying, I was using TfL generically. I agree "I didn't know someone was using my pass" would be a defence in a disciplinary process.
To rephrase: the passholder's employer has sufficient evidence for beginning disciplinary action, irrespective of whether the OP or their sister goes to court.

gray1404 · 11 Feb 2020

I am not sure if the OP is posting on behalf of their sister (their early posts) or themselves (their later posts when they say they will be entering a guilty plea). Nevertheless.....

It looks like this case may now have a Court date set and the OP has been asked to enter a plea. If so, and they wish to plea Guilty (as stated above) then it should be possible for you to do this by post using the paperwork you have been sent and not attend court on the day. However, read the Summons you have received very carefully, especially if you are able to offer anything in mitigation. Furthermore, if you are on a low wage or on benefits, it is very important you make the Court aware of your current situation using the correct paperwork/forms. Otherwise the Court will assume average earnings and and fine you receive may be higher then it otherwise would have been, had the court been aware.

Finally, given you wish to enter a Guilty plea (and still take note and apply the information above - making the Court aware - about earnings regardless, if it applies to you) you may wish to strongly consider getting to the Court early on the day of the case. Ask the Clark to point out the Barrister acting on behalf of TfL. You can then approach that person and ask them if they would be willing to agree an Out of Court Settlement with you there and then, and thus withdraw the case before it is called.

Puffing Devil · 11 Feb 2020

gray1404 said:
I am not sure if the OP is posting on behalf of their sister (their early posts) or themselves (their later posts when they say they will be entering a guilty plea). Nevertheless.....

It looks like this case may now have a Court date set and the OP has been asked to enter a plea. If so, and they wish to plea Guilty (as stated above) then it should be possible for you to do this by post using the paperwork you have been sent and not attend court on the day. However, read the Summons you have received very carefully, especially if you are able to offer anything in mitigation. Furthermore, if you are on a low wage or on benefits, it is very important you make the Court aware of your current situation using the correct paperwork/forms. Otherwise the Court will assume average earnings and and fine you receive may be higher then it otherwise would have been, had the court been aware.

Finally, given you wish to enter a Guilty plea (and still take note and apply the information above - making the Court aware - about earnings regardless, if it applies to you) you may wish to strongly consider getting to the Court early on the day of the case. Ask the Clark to point out the Barrister acting on behalf of TfL. You can then approach that person and ask them if they would be willing to agree an Out of Court Settlement with you there and then, and thus withdraw the case before it is called.

That's about the size of it.

Hopefully you'll have been given the forms to plead guilty by post. If you don't want to attend fill them in and post them back to the court. Keep copies and get a proof of posting as a minimum, signed for is better. If you have no forms and don't want to attend, call the court and see if they will accept a guilty plea by post and send you the paperwork.

If you want to attend, then, as @gray1404 says, turn up early and there is no harm asking to speak to the prosecutor (more than likely not a barrister) for TfL and ask if they are prepared to entertain an out of court settlement. If not, your case will be called on in due course and you will be asked to stand in court to identify yourself and give a plea. TfL will then outline their case and the facts. You will be then be invited to say anything that you wish about the offence - why you committed it, your remorse. The bench will then pronounce a sentence based on the information on your means form. You will most likely be given a fine - you can ask for time to pay if you can't afford to pay in a single instalment. You must pay your court fines or the final sanction will be prison. Work with the fines officer if you have difficulties paying.

Dress smartly - if all you have are clean jeans and a shirt, that's better than a tracksuit.

Mojo · 11 Feb 2020

Puffing Devil said:
If you want to attend, then, as @gray1404 says, turn up early and there is no harm asking to speak to the prosecutor (more than likely not a barrister) for TfL and ask if they are prepared to entertain an out of court settlement

The people who attend court are not barristers, they are administrative staff, some but not all may be chartered legal executives but that is it.

Khall12 · 11 Feb 2020

Puffing Devil said:
That's about the size of it.

Hopefully you'll have been given the forms to plead guilty by post. If you don't want to attend fill them in and post them back to the court. Keep copies and get a proof of posting as a minimum, signed for is better. If you have no forms and don't want to attend, call the court and see if they will accept a guilty plea by post and send you the paperwork.

If you want to attend, then, as @gray1404 says, turn up early and there is no harm asking to speak to the prosecutor (more than likely not a barrister) for TfL and ask if they are prepared to entertain an out of court settlement. If not, your case will be called on in due course and you will be asked to stand in court to identify yourself and give a plea. TfL will then outline their case and the facts. You will be then be invited to say anything that you wish about the offence - why you committed it, your remorse. The bench will then pronounce a sentence based on the information on your means form. You will most likely be given a fine - you can ask for time to pay if you can't afford to pay in a single instalment. You must pay your court fines or the final sanction will be prison. Work with the fines officer if you have difficulties paying.

Dress smartly - if all you have are clean jeans and a shirt, that's better than a tracksuit.

Thank you - they have said she has to attend court due to procedural changes! She will be pleading guilty. Hopefully as you say she will get a fine. Thanks for your help.

some bloke · 11 Feb 2020

Khall12 said:
Hopefully as you say she will get a fine.

Would you like to clarify why you say "hopefully" - is there another outcome you are thinking of?

The usual outcome would be a conviction, with the sentence a fine.

TFL Fare evasion prosecution

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