Question: The Origins of the Myth of the Strategic Steam Reserve

Dr_Paul · 2 Feb 2020

I've seen many references on this site to the Strategic Steam Reserve, which, from studying the often cryptic and sarcastic mentions of it, seems to me to be a longstanding urban myth amongst railway enthusiasts about a secret store of steam locomotives. Could forum members provide some information about when and how this myth came about, and whether anyone actually believed it, as I find it all rather intriguing.

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pdeaves · 2 Feb 2020

Dr_Paul said:
I've seen many references on this site to the Strategic Steam Reserve, which, from studying the often cryptic and sarcastic mentions of it, seems to me to be a longstanding urban myth amongst railway enthusiasts about a secret store of steam locomotives. Could forum members provide some information about when and how this myth came about, and whether anyone actually believed it, as I find it all rather intriguing.

There's a bit on Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_steam_reserve) that suggests the myth started pretty much as soon as steam was withdrawn (1968).

Altfish · 2 Feb 2020

It has as much credibility as a Flat Earth. It was total wishful thinking

If such a strategy was implemented, they would have saved standard classes (the most modern locos) and all those have their demise (or preservation) well documented.

70014IronDuke · 2 Feb 2020

pdeaves said:
There's a bit on Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_steam_reserve) that suggests the myth started pretty much as soon as steam was withdrawn (1968).

Which, if it were not a myth, would be logical.

Altfish said:
It has as much credibility as a Flat Earth. It was total wishful thinking

If such a strategy was implemented, they would have saved standard classes (the most modern locos) and all those have their demise (or preservation) well documented.

Absolutely correct.

Signed, your people-loving government spokesman.

(Hint to OP, check out the demise of all the Black 5s and 8Fs, and you begin to wonder. ....

)

randyrippley · 2 Feb 2020

There was me thinking the strategic reserve was all those wartime 2-8-0s which came back from working overseas and then disappeared off the books.....the ones that went to Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Iran and were officially disappeared and never entered BR stock.

70014IronDuke · 2 Feb 2020

randyrippley said:
There was me thinking the strategic reserve was all those wartime 2-8-0s which came back from working overseas and then disappeared off the books.....

or off the docks

Mind you, I don't believe a word of the stories about the J94 type 0-6-0STs that were saved.
I mean, I don't think they'd bother with those just for the lighter built secret lines serving the underground government offices. There again, stranger things have happened, and they were, reportedly, reliable, efficient locos for those types of jobs.

randyrippley · 2 Feb 2020

There was a kind of diesel strategic reserve in the 1970s. There was some kind of Government decree that BR had to keep 100 diesels available for hauling freight, over and above the immediate needs. I guess the government had jitters over the oil and coal supplies.
I can remember some discussion in the national press when BR asked to be relieved of the need. It turned out that the "reserve" was a bunch of stripped class 24 and 40 which had been robbed to the point where they'd never run again, and BR wanted to be rid. They'd been kept on the books, but were unusable.

edwin_m · 2 Feb 2020

Can we start a conspiracy theory about why "they" would want to start a conspiracy theory that there is a strategic steam reserve?

Malcmal · 2 Feb 2020

Am I the only one reading this who thinks of the Enid Blyton Famous Five book about the steam loco hidden in a tunnel and brought out a night. This was published in 1948 and is very much in this zone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Go_Off_to_Camp

70014IronDuke · 2 Feb 2020

edwin_m said:
Can we start a conspiracy theory about why "they" would want to start a conspiracy theory that there is a strategic steam reserve?

Er, a second conspiracy theory to justify the first is a conspiracy theory too far, surely?

People could then easily believe that there was no conspiracy theory in the first place - and that's when it gets dangerous.

Journeyman · 3 Feb 2020

The first mention I ever heard of it was in Nicholas Whittaker's book "Platform Souls", a biography of his days as a spotter, from childhood at the end of steam. It's a warm, funny and enjoyable book that does a lot to lift the lid on why we all bother.

Anyway, he says the whole thing really took off because of supposed discrepancies in the records of locos being scrapped in the late sixties, leading to the theory that they must all have been hidden away somewhere. It happened to coincide with a peak in the UK's civil defence activity - it began winding down after 1968 - and it sort of sounds plausible in theory.

But yes. Absolutely no concrete evidence of it at all, it was just wishful thinking.

Spartacus · 3 Feb 2020

Yes, it probably started as a mix of wishful thinking and poor bookkeeping. Sometimes locos went without full paperwork, sometimes they went, or were due to, and had a last minute reprieve, so were then seen around long after they had theoretically become razor blades.

Other times something would run hot in a convoy going for scrap so they would be left in an unlikely place that was convenient at the time until a fitter could attend. Given the number of military bases, and particularly airfields that had, or had recently had rail connections, people started putting 2 & 2 together and getting about 25! lol

“Bunch of steam locos parked up on the old siding for the WWII airfield that’s now a storage depot, which were gone the next time I passed, and I’m sure at least one’s been listed as scrapped at Draper’s already..... I know.......!”

For something of a modern equivalent look at all the conspiracy theories (and plan daft theories) when some people see something in RTT which they don’t quite understand.

Journeyman · 3 Feb 2020

Spartacus said:
Yes, it probably started as a mix of wishful thinking and poor bookkeeping. Sometimes locos went without full paperwork, sometimes they went, or were due to, and had a last minute reprieve, so were then seen around long after they had theoretically become razor blades.

I think people look back on that era with a complete failure to understand how primitive data management was back then. It was literally piles of paperwork in filing cabinets in dusty basements, and hard-pressed BR staff really couldn't keep on top of it. It was inevitable that gaps and errors would creep in, and that records would be lost.

This is why I don't have much patience for the critics of Beeching who have a go at him for relying on flawed passenger survey data. I'm not quite sure how else he was supposed to do it - in 2020, sophisticated passenger flow data going back years can be obtained in seconds, but in 1963, those records simply weren't kept, and no-one had the ability to effectively analyse the data anyway.

Spartacus said:
For something of a modern equivalent look at all the conspiracy theories (and plan daft theories) when some people see something in RTT which they don’t quite understand.

Yeah...RTT keeps a lot of commercially sensitive data hidden, and that's enough to keep the more imaginative among us going for years!

deltic14 · 3 Feb 2020

I first read about the strategic reserve idea in the first edition of Steam Railway Magazine which was published I think in 1980 which used the discrepancy in disposal records as the main evidence as well as the rapid disappearance of certain loco's such as the Grange class. This predated the publication of the book 'Platform Souls'.

Journeyman · 3 Feb 2020

deltic14 said:
I first read about the strategic reserve idea in the first edition of Steam Railway Magazine which was published I think in 1980 which used the discrepancy in disposal records as the main evidence as well as the rapid disappearance of certain loco's such as the Grange class. This predated the publication of the book 'Platform Souls'.

Oh yeah, the original edition of "Platform Souls" came out in the mid-nineties. I'm sure lots of others had written about it before then.

What did the article conclude? Did they consider the idea credible?

Journeyman · 3 Feb 2020

I've just unearthed this shocking new evidence for the existence of the strategic reserve!

Calthrop · 3 Feb 2020

deltic14 said:
I first read about the strategic reserve idea in the first edition of Steam Railway Magazine which was published I think in 1980 which used the discrepancy in disposal records as the main evidence as well as the rapid disappearance of certain loco's such as the Grange class. This predated the publication of the book 'Platform Souls'.

Journeyman said:
Oh yeah, the original edition of "Platform Souls" came out in the mid-nineties. I'm sure lots of others had written about it before then.

What did the article conclude? Did they consider the idea credible?

I seem to recall that the "Steam Railway" article included the quoted words of a chap who claimed to have, I think in 1969, seen in an out-of-the-way section of Shrewsbury's rail installations, rows of steam locos, cold and with boarded-up cabs, "parked" on sidings. (He had, I think, fallen asleep during his rail journey from Aberystwyth: woke up when his dmu was, after terminating at Shrewsbury, on its way to wherever in the rail complex it was to be serviced -- at the station, nobody had noticed him asleep, and got him out on to the platform. He awoke, adjacent to all these dead "steamers".) The guy wasn't a railway enthusiast; but his occupational field was mechanical engineering -- he was thus unlikely to misconstrue as steam locomotives, "something which was altogether something else". I believe SR quoted this as the best account which is known, of someone seeing first-hand, what could be elements of the strategic steam reserve. Of course -- as per @Spartacus's Post #12 -- these locos could simply have been in transit for scrapping.

The Shrewsbury tale is, at all events, purely anecdotal and not hard proof of anything: just something somebody has said -- and people say all kinds of things. One might think of the mystery of "Bigfoot" in North America: there are innumerable anecdotal accounts from over the past century and more, up to the present day, emanating from people who claim to have encountered the creature -- but somehow, no hard evidence for its existence ever seems to show up.

ChiefPlanner · 3 Feb 2020

The Swedes had a genuine strategic reserve (I think) , which were finally disposed of in the mid to late 1970's , and there were penny numbers of serviceable steam locomotives scattered around Italy in the early 1980's - I can certainly recall seeing them at Trento and Venice Mestre. Many stations had (even in electrified areas) , working water columns.

Maybe someone linked these with "possible" UK stashed loco's.

d9009alycidon · 3 Feb 2020

I was watching the Netflicks drama "Cobra" which starts with a massive solar pulse which pretty much wipes out the electricity supply in the UK, such a pulse (in real life) could paralyse the rail network as just about every modern locomotive and unit relies on software to operate, but of course the strategic reserve is there ready for that happening. They are not stored in some subterranean bunker next to Box Tunnel or anywhere like that, they are kept in plain site all over the country at places like Loughborough, Bury, Grosmont and Bo'ness, somewhere in excess of 400 locomotives, and they are still building more!!!

Romsey · 3 Feb 2020

Then of course there is the problem of how to control this secret reserve....
If a solar electro-magnetic pulse knocks out rolling stock software, it will also take out signalling systems, phones and internet......
Don't think that road transport will be any better, just have a look at the electronics on modern vehicles.
Did the drama portray going back to early motor vehicles, horse and carts and horse drawn barges on canals?

I thought not.......

I'll go back to making home made marmalade and checking engineering works for railtours this autumn.

delt1c · 3 Feb 2020

randyrippley said:
There was a kind of diesel strategic reserve in the 1970s. There was some kind of Government decree that BR had to keep 100 diesels available for hauling freight, over and above the immediate needs. I guess the government had jitters over the oil and coal supplies.
I can remember some discussion in the national press when BR asked to be relieved of the need. It turned out that the "reserve" was a bunch of stripped class 24 and 40 which had been robbed to the point where they'd never run again, and BR wanted to be rid. They'd been kept on the books, but were unusable.

All the class 40's (except 1 accident damage) were still operational until mid 70's. I remember seeing most on my spotting days

edwin_m · 3 Feb 2020

d9009alycidon said:
I was watching the Netflicks drama "Cobra" which starts with a massive solar pulse which pretty much wipes out the electricity supply in the UK, such a pulse (in real life) could paralyse the rail network as just about every modern locomotive and unit relies on software to operate, but of course the strategic reserve is there ready for that happening. They are not stored in some subterranean bunker next to Box Tunnel or anywhere like that, they are kept in plain site all over the country at places like Loughborough, Bury, Grosmont and Bo'ness, somewhere in excess of 400 locomotives, and they are still building more!!!

Not sure a massive solar pulse is necessary, quite enough chaos was caused with a couple of lightning strikes pushing the supply frequency marginally out of spec...

WesternLancer · 3 Feb 2020

Journeyman said:
The first mention I ever heard of it was in Nicholas Whittaker's book "Platform Souls", a biography of his days as a spotter, from childhood at the end of steam. It's a warm, funny and enjoyable book that does a lot to lift the lid on why we all bother.

Anyway, he says the whole thing really took off because of supposed discrepancies in the records of locos being scrapped in the late sixties, leading to the theory that they must all have been hidden away somewhere. It happened to coincide with a peak in the UK's civil defence activity - it began winding down after 1968 - and it sort of sounds plausible in theory.

But yes. Absolutely no concrete evidence of it at all, it was just wishful thinking.

Indeed - a great book.

randyrippley · 3 Feb 2020

delt1c said:
All the class 40's (except 1 accident damage) were still operational until mid 70's. I remember seeing most on my spotting days

maybe it was a bit later than I remembered, but it definitely happened

Arglwydd Golau · 3 Feb 2020

As I read this thread I also recalled reading an article about a character falling asleep and waking up in the midst of lines of steam engines, and deltic14 and Calthrop confirmed my memory. The article occurred at a time when I was paying scant attention to railways apart from glancing through my father's magazines when I visited...anyway, when he died I did keep the first edition of Steam Railway and dug it out, looking forward to re-reading said article, but it's not there! Must have been a later copy or a different magazine.
With hindsight, from a perspective of 50 years or so it is easy to scoff at the idea of such a reserve, but it is easy to forget that the internet wasn't present in those days and communication wasn't anything like that we have today. On many enthusiasts part there was clearly an element of wishful thinking (certainly my father believed it, without giving any thought to the sort of calamity that would presage it's use!) After all it was known, I think, that other countries had them - as mentioned earlier - and @Journeyman's comments about record keeping added grist to the mill! (....and there were those elderly fire engines that were wheeled out during the Fireman's strike!)

delt1c · 3 Feb 2020

randyrippley said:
maybe it was a bit later than I remembered, but it definitely happened

All class 40’s and 24’s were well recorded from withdrawal till cutting. Think this was another tall story.

randyrippley · 3 Feb 2020

delt1c said:
All class 40’s and 24’s were well recorded from withdrawal till cutting. Think this was another tall story.

The request from BR to the government to be released from the requirement was reported in the Telegraph and other newspapers. Essentially at any time 100 or so locos were held back from the cutting torch, being released for scrap as newer withdrawals took place. BR wanted rid of this hindrance to timely disposal

delt1c · 3 Feb 2020

randyrippley said:
The request from BR to the government to be released from the requirement was reported in the Telegraph and other newspapers. Essentially at any time 100 or so locos were held back from the cutting torch, being released for scrap as newer withdrawals took place. BR wanted rid of this hindrance to timely disposal

Ah the Telegraph. During my spotting days I cleared most of the 24's and 40's so wonder where these "100" were. Think this another journalist stories. If there were to have been a " diesel " reserve then surely it would have been something newer

dgl · 3 Feb 2020

I personally think there is such a reserve but as it is protected by the official secrets act people have to deny it exists, now some people do know about it's existence and have tried to get the word out, a certain Rev. W. Awdry is one such person who hinted at their existence by showing Henry bricked up in a tunnel.
One of the biggest cover-ups of this scheme was Barry scrapyard, people were led to believe that these were previously used locomotives going for scrapping but were hastily built locomotives that were never able to even run in service while the locomotives that were supposedly scrapped were hidden in secret locations as part of the Strategic Steam Reserve.

But in reality there is no strategic steam reserve and why would you want one anyway?

randyrippley · 3 Feb 2020

delt1c said:
Ah the Telegraph. During my spotting days I cleared most of the 24's and 40's so wonder where these "100" were. Think this another journalist stories. If there were to have been a " diesel " reserve then surely it would have been something newer

Presumably on shed between withdrawal and scrap.......all they would have to do is delay scrapping each loco by six months or a year

Question: The Origins of the Myth of the Strategic Steam Reserve

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