Northern Complimentary Return: asked to date the return portion on outward journey

Adlenviro · 28 Jan 2020

Using a Northern Complimentary return obtained from a delay return claim.

On outward journey ive been made to date the return box for tomorrow even though i said i might return tomorrow or tonight but now im sure i will return tonight. Is this correct when the validity of the original ticket would be valid to return any day upto a month without me stating a date i would not know.

RailUK Forums

BlueFox · 28 Jan 2020

Who made you fill in the return box?

It doesn't have to be filled in until you make the return journey, but some Northern staff make up their own rules. It's been reported here a few times.

Kilopylae · 28 Jan 2020

Adlenviro said:
Using a Northern Complimentary return obtained from a delay return claim.
ive been made to date the return box for tomorrow even though i said i might return tomorrow or tonight

There is no requirement to fill in the return date box until the day of return travel. If a member of staff pressured you into it then you should make a complaint to Northern customer services and secure permission from them or another member of staff to travel tonight on the prematurely dated ticket.

Adlenviro · 28 Jan 2020

The conductor on the train im on made me fill in the return date. On the owtward journey.

gray1404 · 28 Jan 2020

Did the conductor insist you mark it with a return date of today or tomorrow specifically or were you still free to choose your own return date, just as long as one was filled in?

I've just had a look on the back of a Northern free return I've received and there is nothing that states the return date needs to be filled in along with the outward. However, I do recall on the last 3 covering letters I've received (which I no longer have sadly upload here - but I am sure another forum member will have such a letter) it stated something along the lines that if the free ticket was being used for a return journey, both the outward and return dates must be filled in. However, this is not in the terms and conditions so I do not believe could be said to be binding.

It is worth a complaint to Northern anycase.

yorkie · 29 Jan 2020

Adlenviro said:
The conductor on the train im on made me fill in the return date. On the owtward journey.

I'd write to Northern asking if that is their policy, and if it is, where is it written down.

Provide full details of the train, so that the member of staff can be spoken to, if that's not their policy.

najaB · 29 Jan 2020

gray1404 said:
However, I do recall on the last 3 covering letters I've received (which I no longer have sadly upload here - but I am sure another forum member will have such a letter) it stated something along the lines that if the free ticket was being used for a return journey, both the outward and return dates must be filled in. However, this is not in the terms and conditions so I do not believe could be said to be binding.

Interesting. You don't happen to know what restriction code these tickets bear?

gray1404 · 29 Jan 2020

najaB said:
Interesting. You don't happen to know what restriction code these tickets bear?

None as they are the Northern Complementary Returns that you date yourself.

SteveM70 · 29 Jan 2020

najaB said:
Interesting. You don't happen to know what restriction code these tickets bear?

They don’t. The small print on the back says amongst other stuff that the date needs to be written in prior to commencing the journey, but no clarification of what exactly they mean by that - separately for outbound and return or both before the outbound leg

Ive probably had about 50 comp returns over the last 3 years and I’ve never filled in the return date before starting the outbound journey and equally have never had any aggro with them (including the legend that was gestapo Gary on the Victoria gateline)

Bletchleyite · 29 Jan 2020

If there is one open at your destination, probably worth going to a booking office. As it's been dated tomorrow but you want to use it today (that right?) it can't already have been used, so they may well be willing to alter the date and confirm it with a booking office stamp.

js1000 · 2 Feb 2020

SteveM70 said:
They don’t. The small print on the back says amongst other stuff that the date needs to be written in prior to commencing the journey, but no clarification of what exactly they mean by that - separately for outbound and return or both before the outbound leg

Ive probably had about 50 comp returns over the last 3 years and I’ve never filled in the return date before starting the outbound journey and equally have never had any aggro with them (including the legend that was gestapo Gary on the Victoria gateline)

Gestapo Gary? :lol:

All it says on the back is:

5. It is the holder's responsibility to ensure the date of travel, name of the customer travelling, type of journey and stations are completed using an ink pen before travelling

By that I see no reason why the return date has to be filled in also when travelling on the onward journey. Sounds as if you were unlucky and had to deal with an unreasonable idiot that pop up from time to time. Sadly they are out there but thankfully very few and far between.

Saperstein · 3 Feb 2020

Do you have to enter the full station names on these or can one just enter the three station code CTR for Chester for example?

Saperstein

SteveM70 · 3 Feb 2020

Saperstein said:
Do you have to enter the full station names on these or can one just enter the three station code CTR for Chester for example?

Saperstein

I don’t think there’s a specific instruction, but often the full name won’t fit in the box (especially if you have handwriting like mine). I tend to use “Hebden Br”, “Man Vic” etc and have never had any issues

SeanG · 3 Feb 2020

I've put in Liverpool rather than Liverpool Lime Street, and nobody has ever questioned it.
I've also in the past wished to use Middlesbrough, but as it didn't fit, chose to put Glaisdale in - again no problems

Djgr · 3 Feb 2020

Saperstein said:
Do you have to enter the full station names on these or can one just enter the three station code CTR for Chester for example?

Saperstein

Choose an obscure station nobody has heard of!

sheff1 · 5 Feb 2020

gray1404 said:
I do recall on the last 3 covering letters I've received (which I no longer have sadly upload here - but I am sure another forum member will have such a letter).......

I received such a letter today. It contains the following text:

Your voucher needs to be filled in prior to boarding in pen to validate this voucher, failure to do so may result in a valid ticket being required to be purchased under the normal terms and conditions for the journey taken. Where applicable, the return journey details should also be completed prior to commencing the outward journey.

Bletchleyite · 5 Feb 2020

Seems clear enough, if a little annoying.

Djgr · 5 Feb 2020

To be honest I don't think many people set off on a return journey, with no idea when they will return.

miami · 5 Feb 2020

Djgr said:
To be honest I don't think many people set off on a return journey, with no idea when they will return.

I'm off to Manchester tomorrow. I will return tomorrow or the day after. That's the whole point of a flexible ticket.

BlueFox · 5 Feb 2020

sheff1 said:
Where applicable, the return journey details should also be completed prior to commencing the outward journey.

I'm sure that's something they've added fairly recently.

Djgr said:
To be honest I don't think many people set off on a return journey, with no idea when they will return.

I have done with these tickets, and was planning a few more.
As have others in this thread. So it's enough for it to be a problem.

Bletchleyite · 5 Feb 2020

I assume the reason is to reduce the risk of people just putting them in their pocket and dating the return half when challenged? As they would appear to be, a bit like an old Merseytravel scratch off Saveaway, a bit of a "no PFs" pass if you could date them at any point.

gray1404 · 5 Feb 2020

I would take the view that as the statement about putting in the return date does not form part of the terms and conditions (as printed on the back of the card) it is not enforceable.

I have been pulled up a few times using these passes that are marked for "all day" on the basis I either haven''t put any station names in or anything in the return date box. I've only dated the outward one. When I've explained its an "all day" ticket I've been fine.

Djgr · 5 Feb 2020

miami said:
I'm off to Manchester tomorrow. I will return tomorrow or the day after. That's the whole point of a flexible ticket.

But it's not really a flexible ticket in the way you describe. Essentially the deal is that Northern set the rules and if they don't suit take the cash instead.

miami · 5 Feb 2020

Djgr said:
But it's not really a flexible ticket in the way you describe. Essentially the deal is that Northern set the rules and if they don't suit take the cash instead.

Sure they can set whatever rules they like, I took umbridge with the idea that people knew what day they would return.

HSP 2 · 6 Feb 2020

Looking at the T & Cs sections 5 and 6 look to cover that you have to fill in what they have not.
It's the date printed that I'm not sure about (or are they saying that you have to fill it in?) as I've never had a date printed on one. So all I do is fill in the outward date and the return date.
If I'm unsure when I'll be returning I'll ether use a single pass or have a blank one with me. That's just in case.

I'll add a question if the person is a child and uses one of these and it is marked for an adult could that be a problem? I'm asking as my boy has the same name as me.

najaB · 6 Feb 2020

HSP 2 said:
It's the date printed that I'm not sure about (or are they saying that you have to fill it in?) as I've never had a date printed on one.

Printed meaning "clearly written" in this case.

Bletchleyite · 6 Feb 2020

Children can travel on adult tickets.

HSP 2 · 6 Feb 2020

najaB said:
Printed meaning "clearly written" in this case.

I did think that would be the case.

Bletchleyite said:
Children can travel on adult tickets.

I also expected this would be the case if you were paying for a ticket. But in this case who knows??

Bletchleyite · 6 Feb 2020

HSP 2 said:
I also expected this would be the case if you were paying for a ticket. But in this case who knows??

The stated rule is very clear - adults may not travel on child tickets. It doesn't say you can't the other way round.

najaB · 6 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
HSP 2 said:

I also expected this would be the case if you were paying for a ticket. But in this case who knows??

Click to expand...

The stated rule is very clear - adults may not travel on child tickets. It doesn't say you can't the other way round.

It's not an unreasonable question. It makes sense that you can travel with a more expensive ticket than you needed, but where free tickets are concerned then rules might be different.

Northern Complimentary Return: asked to date the return portion on outward journey

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