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Britain’s relationship with the EU post Brexit.

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jon0844

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$50 for 20GB? Not the worst charge I suppose, but certainly a lot more than $/£/€0 as we have today!

I think EE still roams on Orange in some countries on account of its previous ownership (France Telecom) but I am not entirely sure where. Poland perhaps?

Vodafone will use one of its own networks, or one that it once owned (e.g. Telenor in Sweden).

The thing is, the days of needing to make sure you roamed on the right network pretty much ended with the new EU regulations. I really don't want to see us go backwards, to a point where you may not have signal on whatever partner you are allowed to use abroad. But I can definitely see it happening.
 

Esker-pades

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On the roaming angle, the transition period extends to this area. So, any travel in the EU until the end of 2020 will be unaffected from that angle.

Post transition, mobile networks "have no plans" to re-introduce roaming charges. Specifically mentioned are EE and O2. Of course, that could easily change on the 1st of Jan 2021.

Source:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45064268
 

jon0844

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Of course nothing changes during the transition period, but at least one network I personally know of is already making plans. I assume they all are.

I am sure the Government will still be far from doing anything come December, but I think most businesses aren't hanging around. They have to speak to individual operators to try and secure reciprocal agreements if they want to continue offering affordable roaming (from their point of view, not us).

The networks will also be looking to see what each other do of course!
 

Bletchleyite

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On the roaming angle, the transition period extends to this area. So, any travel in the EU until the end of 2020 will be unaffected from that angle.

Post transition, mobile networks "have no plans" to re-introduce roaming charges. Specifically mentioned are EE and O2. Of course, that could easily change on the 1st of Jan 2021.

Source:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45064268

O2 of course already offer free roaming to a wide range of destinations, including Canada (which is often cited as a country we should potentially be like).
 

jon0844

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O2 of course already offer free roaming to a wide range of destinations, including Canada (which is often cited as a country we should potentially be like).

Without any restrictions on data, and allowing you to share the data with other devices?
 

dosxuk

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O2 of course already offer free roaming to a wide range of destinations, including Canada (which is often cited as a country we should potentially be like).

Only available for free on certain contracts, costs £4.99/day for other contracts and not available to PAYG users.

https://www.o2.co.uk/shop/international/using-phone-abroad

This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about earlier and that I expect the EU free roaming to end up bundled with - so only free if you pay for it.
 

najaB

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They may have said that to the press but are they saying it to the EU...
If it had been a nuanced statement then I might give credence to the idea that it was being said purely for the consumption of the public, but given how clear and unequivocal it is I can't see them getting away with saying anything different in private.
 

najaB

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najaB

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Do you think this has made it through the heads of the "Europe needs us more than we need them" crowd?

https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1223605260029190144?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^news|twgr^tweet
Never mind, I got my answer:
BBC News said:
Brexit: Johnson denies failure to reach trade deal would cost jobs
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been asked if failing to get a trade deal with the EU would damage people's prosperity.

He replied that he had heard "prophecies of doom" before about the impact of Brexit and doesn't believe them.

Mr Johnson was outlining the UK's objectives for the second stage of the negotiations and its future partnership with the EU.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-po...s-failure-to-reach-trade-deal-would-cost-jobs

It's nice to know that his negotiating strategy is based on what he chooses to believe.
 

Doppelganger

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They may have said that to the press but are they saying it to the EU, and does what they say to the press change the agreement to a level playing field that has been passed by Parliament?
If it's documented in the media it basically is the same as telling the EU isn't it?

Furthermore following his statement, Sterling took a downward journey, wiping out the gains made in the previous few days, so the markets certainly believe what he said.
 

jon0844

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Today saw the media walk out as the Government decided to restrict access to No 10 for some sections of the media. Very much like the standard practice for Trump, or indeed Putin.

I wonder if this will lead to Boris giving up on press statements (saves him hiding in a fridge) and not having to worry about tough questions.

I don't have much faith in our negotiating tactics.

Nor does it feel like 'we've got our country back'.
 

jon0844

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You might not have got it back, but those in Westminster certainly have and they know exactly what to do with that power.

Quite.

Funny how Boris is being guided/coerced by Dominic Cummings who is, erm, unelected...
 

Bantamzen

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Never mind, I got my answer:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-po...s-failure-to-reach-trade-deal-would-cost-jobs

It's nice to know that his negotiating strategy is based on what he chooses to believe.

I shouldn't worry, BoJo will not make it through a full term. What should be of worry is what state our negotiations & trade position will be in when he resigns or is forced out, because it is clear that he has no idea on how to balance the hard core Brexiteer desire for bravado & chest beating (mainly because they have no strategy), and real world negotiations. The EU are taking, and rightly so, a calm, pragmatic but honest position of wanting the best deal possible whilst determining that the 27 EU nations are their priority.

Our government however has spent so long pandering purely to Brexiteer fantasises that it has totally lost sight of the scale & reality of the tasks required in less than the remaining 11 months before the Working Agreement expires. And the reality is that a full, comprehensive & mutually beneficial deal is near impossible, made all the more difficult by the continued & unnecessary bravado. The EU won't want to just walk away with no deal, unlike some here, but they will be preparing for it. Our lot are still trying to convince us that our standing in the world means that we can have our cake, eat it and post pictures of it on social media, whilst still sticking two fingers up to the EU.

Today saw the media walk out as the Government decided to restrict access to No 10 for some sections of the media. Very much like the standard practice for Trump, or indeed Putin.

I wonder if this will lead to Boris giving up on press statements (saves him hiding in a fridge) and not having to worry about tough questions.

I don't have much faith in our negotiating tactics.

Nor does it feel like 'we've got our country back'.

Its classic Trump Tactics, don't like what you hear, make everyone believe its 'Fake News' then try to oust them. Orwell would not be proud, but certainly feel vindicated.
 

433N

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I was aghast to see Johnson talking in Greenwich yesterday :

"I dispel the absurd caricature of Britain as a nation bent on the slash and burn of workers’ rights and environmental protection, as if we are saved from Dickensian squalor only by enlightened EU regulation ... "

He might want to look at the history of Tory opposition to the Working Time Directive.

Historical revisionism ... yeah, that's the next stage - helped by a Great British Public with a collective memory akin to that of a goldfish.

ON EDIT :

I realise that the Working Time Directive is not the be-all-and-end-all of workers rights but if you look at the major social reforms in Britain, they were implemented by the reforms of the Liberal government of 1906-14 and Labour government of 1945-51 and the Tory contributions were .... ?

It would be inconvenient of Johnson to remember that the 1906 Liberal government was voted in largely on proposed social reforms which 'took inspiration' from Bismarck's reforms such as sickness insurance for workers in Germany.

Prior to that time, successive British governments thought social problems could be solved through voluntary action, self-help and charity ... see also Mogg's positive view of food banks.

Of course, Johnson is well-educated ... he went to private school not some state education dump that has given up on educashun. Probably done some Tennyson an' all ....

'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd ?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
 
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SteveP29

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Distinct lack of leavers commenting on this thread, the answer to the original question should be quite simple, after all, we were told by them it'd be the easiest deal in history etc.
Or is it just that they have no idea beyond we got out?

It's nice to know that his negotiating strategy is based on what he chooses to believe.

Don't you remember, that was how the UK post Brexit was sold to us? you've just got to have faith and believe
 

Bantamzen

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Distinct lack of leavers commenting on this thread, the answer to the original question should be quite simple, after all, we were told by them it'd be the easiest deal in history etc.
Or is it just that they have no idea beyond we got out?

And herein lies my (and I suspect many others) primary objection to Brexit, there has been little to zero substance to it. Even after the formality of getting into the transitionary period of the Working Agreement, we are still not told what the strategy is, what the end game is, or even what the benefits beyond some unsubstantiated notion of "getting back control" will be. Now I don't expect minute detail, that's what the negotiations with the EU will be all about, but some kind of broad strategy on the way forward would be nice. And that doesn't mean not wanting to align with EU regulations, even though most of those will be necessary to have any chance of a similar deal to what we had previously.

Its still all just rhetoric & bravado. And its not working.
 

433N

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And herein lies my (and I suspect many others) primary objection to Brexit, there has been little to zero substance to it. Even after the formality of getting into the transitionary period of the Working Agreement, we are still not told what the strategy is, what the end game is, or even what the benefits beyond some unsubstantiated notion of "getting back control" will be.

Depressingly, last Friday Bill Cash was being interviewed on Radio 4. He was asked how Brexit could be judged a failure ... in response he whittered on about if we couldn't 'get back control of our laws' ... which, of course, meant he could say that Brexit was a success the following day when, presumably, he perceived that we had 'got back control of our laws' whatever that means. i.e. there would be no way that Brexit would be judged a failure.

Asked what he was going to do next, having complained so hard and so long about the EU, his retort was he was going to kick up a stink about HS2 which he was absolutely opposed to.

It's almost like he is an odious, whingeing malcontent who is only happy when he is ranting about something. Why do the people of Stone, Staffordshire vote for this waste of human skin ?
 

Journeyman

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We'll end up sacrificing loads of high-value trade and millions of jobs for the sake of a few bloody fish, that will have greater freedom of movement than us.
 

jon0844

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Three have committed to keeping it.

We shall wait and see.

Incidentally, Three has recently lost a lot of very important employees and it looks like its 5G rollout will be further setback. The company will be losing a lot of money because of it. The recent Government decision on Huawei won't have helped either, as Three was going for a 100% Huawei 5G network.
 

Doppelganger

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We'll end up sacrificing loads of high-value trade and millions of jobs for the sake of a few bloody fish, that will have greater freedom of movement than us.
The issue with the fishing industry is that it has become such an emotive subject, despite accounting for just 0.1% of GDP.

In fact it is so important that Nigel Farage attended just one (count that again), out of 42 EU fisheries committee meetings over a period of 3 years.
 

Aictos

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We shall wait and see.

Incidentally, Three has recently lost a lot of very important employees and it looks like its 5G rollout will be further setback. The company will be losing a lot of money because of it. The recent Government decision on Huawei won't have helped either, as Three was going for a 100% Huawei 5G network.

That doesn’t surprise me because if they can’t even improve their 4G network to better compete with EE for coverage for example then they’ve no chance of rolling out 5G.

Vodafone and O2 are more less the same coverage wise.
 
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