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MML Electrification: progress updates

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59CosG95

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Oh my god - that mast in the foreground nearest the camera is humongous and has the most attachments I have ever seen in my life I swear to god.
All those brackets will do is hold up the cables & sealing end for the feeder wires. It's basically a carbon copy of the duplicate in the background, as the central one is a (motorised) isolator and can isolate either side if needed.
 

ExRes

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Something on the cards?

Two RTT schedules for this weekend, 0715 Leicester LIP to Bounds Green and 1129 Bounds Green to Leicester LIP, supposedly a pair of 91s being moved to prepare for overhead testing, a further 1536 schedule is for a trip to Syston to turn one of the locos
 

londonmidland

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Something on the cards?

Two RTT schedules for this weekend, 0715 Leicester LIP to Bounds Green and 1129 Bounds Green to Leicester LIP, supposedly a pair of 91s being moved to prepare for overhead testing, a further 1536 schedule is for a trip to Syston to turn one of the locos

I don’t mean to sound blunt but what has this got to do with the MML electrification?
 

sharpley

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Something on the cards?

Two RTT schedules for this weekend, 0715 Leicester LIP to Bounds Green and 1129 Bounds Green to Leicester LIP, supposedly a pair of 91s being moved to prepare for overhead testing, a further 1536 schedule is for a trip to Syston to turn one of the locos
2 class 91s were moved to Leicester LIP last year supposedly in preparation for OHLE testing. They were still there as of a few weeks ago
 

D365

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Passing Kettering on the A14 today, I noticed that wiring teams have commenced wiring south of Kettering station and are working southwards. When I crossed the A14 bridge over the MML, they hadn't reached that far south, but that may change by the end of the day...

I've never been able to see the MML from the A14. But I'm usually driving and not a passenger...
 

ExRes

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2 class 91s were moved to Leicester LIP last year supposedly in preparation for OHLE testing. They were still there as of a few weeks ago

Those two were moved for Europhoenix to prepare for export, they were never anything to do with electrification preparations
 

londonmidland

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Those two were moved for Europhoenix to prepare for export, they were never anything to do with electrification preparations

Hence my confusion over the above posts.

The 91’s have nothing to do with the MML electrification. Also their move to Bounds Green goes via Peterborough.
 

londonmidland

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After a bit of confusion earlier, 91128 and 91122 have arrived at Leicester today and will be used to test the OLE between Bedford and Corby. Using MK3’s, possibly the ones already at Leicester (ex-Pretendolino), with specialist equipment onboard to gather the information.
 

Aictos

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After a bit of confusion earlier, 91128 and 91122 have arrived at Leicester today and will be used to test the OLE between Bedford and Corby. Using MK3’s, possibly the ones already at Leicester (ex-Pretendolino), with specialist equipment onboard to gather the information.

Great news thank you
 

Helvellyn

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At the weekend they started wiring the lines between Drivers Way bridge (new bridge immediately North of Wellingborough that leads to Stanton Cross and Irthlingborough) and Finedon Road bridge.

The new footbridge span over the slow lines at Wellingborough station was also installed, partially clad. The steelwork for the stairs down to the reinstated platform 4 from the bridge were also installed.
 

railneighbour

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It looked like it was wired all the way up to Kettering station, from the south. And to top it off there were reports of cable thefts in the area on Sunday evening, when the tracks were closed for engineering works... all that nice shiny new copper looked rather tempting I suspect.
 

ChrisC

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Whilst the historic cost basis of the various electrification projects are still relevant, surely a more important factor these days, is to be seen to address climate change with a sense of urgency....on that basis, further electrification on a rolling basis is the prudent option.

The government has now brought forward the date when the sale of petrol and diesel engined cars will stop to 2035. Now only 15 years away. In addition to this bringing forward of the date, also now even hybrid cars are to be included. Are the government going to begin to change their mind on future electrification of the railways including the MML to reduce diesel use on the railways. If they are banning the sale of petrol, diesel and hybrid cars what about future builds of diesel and even bi mode trains?
 

jfowkes

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The government has now brought forward the date when the sale of petrol and diesel engined cars will stop to 2035. Now only 15 years away. In addition to this bringing forward of the date, also now even hybrid cars are to be included. Are the government going to begin to change their mind on future electrification of the railways including the MML to reduce diesel use on the railways. If they are banning the sale of petrol, diesel and hybrid cars what about future builds of diesel and even bi mode trains?

A rolling programme of electrification, replacement of pure diesels with preferably pure electric or bi-modes would be the best outcome. And bi-mode doesn't have to mean diesel. A operationally viable hydrogen or battery solution would also qualify.

Having said that, a typical diesel train (with a decent number of passengers) is likely to be environmentally better than the same number carried in individual cars - even electric cars, once the environmental impact of building and then disposing of or recycling those cars and batteries is factored in.
 

gingertom

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A rolling programme of electrification, replacement of pure diesels with preferably pure electric or bi-modes would be the best outcome. And bi-mode doesn't have to mean diesel. A operationally viable hydrogen or battery solution would also qualify.

Having said that, a typical diesel train (with a decent number of passengers) is likely to be environmentally better than the same number carried in individual cars - even electric cars, once the environmental impact of building and then disposing of or recycling those cars and batteries is factored in.
also diesel engines to EuroVI emissions spec, with the catalysts, EGR, scrubbers and AdBlue, are rumoured to have exhaust emissions that are cleaner than the air they take in. But the damage has been done by the earlier engines so they have to go.
 

Spaceship323

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The government has now brought forward the date when the sale of petrol and diesel engined cars will stop to 2035. Now only 15 years away. In addition to this bringing forward of the date, also now even hybrid cars are to be included. Are the government going to begin to change their mind on future electrification of the railways including the MML to reduce diesel use on the railways. If they are banning the sale of petrol, diesel and hybrid cars what about future builds of diesel and even bi mode trains?
But there won't be enough electricity if 20 million electric cars are being charged up every day!
 
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Government announcements and reality are rarely the same. When was HS2 originally going to open for instance? Motorists are a significant part of the electorate. Will the Americans, the Chinese, Germans etc do the same. Fantasy land stuff.
 

duffield

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Government announcements and reality are rarely the same. When was HS2 originally going to open for instance? Motorists are a significant part of the electorate. Will the Americans, the Chinese, Germans etc do the same. Fantasy land stuff.
Fantasy land, or just getting ahead of the curve? Anyhow, there are a significant number of countries aiming for a 2030 cutoff for ICE cars; we'll be able to see how they do first as we are officially aiming for 2035.

Given that all-electric car range is already 300 miles at the top end, it's not unreasonable to project that by 2035 it will be 400-500 miles without charging and good enough for just about all UK purposes. A *lot* of money is now going into battery technology.
The Germans are subject to EU rules which will probably put them on a similar track to us.
China has huge pollution issues which the government is well aware of - and they also know which way the wind is blowing so they will want to sell electric vehicles to Europe, the best way to do that is if they develop a large domestic market as well.
The US will probably be the last major holdout. But economics, not politics will probably pull them into line.
The momentum looks unstoppable - initially you remove most of the pollution from the point of delivery to the power stations (already massively improved in the UK), and then as you finish cleaning up the power supply the overall efficiency and pollution minimisation is achieved.

A few tweaks to vehicle taxes to ensure that lower income people who need cars are not excluded might be necessary - but once all-electric vehicles are (say) 25%+ of the market, the economy of scale factors and the running costs, combined with the fact that e-cars are intrinsically simpler, should make it a no-brainer to buy one if you need an 'economy car'.

The e-car tipping point is approaching rapidly.
 

edwin_m

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But there won't be enough electricity if 20 million electric cars are being charged up every day!
Actually most of them will be charged up at off-peak and at night times, so helping to even the load from renewables and nuclear generation which could be producing a surplus at those times. There are even ideas to use the batteries in electric cars to smooth out demand - presumably some people would be happy to have their battery part drained (leaving enough charge for immediate needs and emergencies) in return for a payment.
 

Bald Rick

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But there won't be enough electricity if 20 million electric cars are being charged up every day!

For another thread (indeed a previous thread)... but yes there will be enough, as 20 million won’t need charging every day. By 2035 we will have at least 2 new nuclear power stations and another 12GW of wind power (at least).


Given that all-electric car range is already 300 miles at the top end, it's not unreasonable to project that by 2035 it will be 400-500 miles without charging and good enough for just about all UK purposes. A *lot* of money is now going into battery technology.

It’s already 400miles on the Tesla S and X. VWs new ID comes with 340 miles, in a hatchback (on the long range version). These are in production now.

But let’s keep electric cars for the electric cars thread.
 

ChrisC

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All very interesting discussion but not so relevant to my original point about electrification of the MML. This was will this bringing forward the date to stop selling diesel, petrol and even hybrid cars bring pressure on the government to also reconsider electrifying more rail routes including the completion of the MML.
 

absolutelymilk

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Chris125

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Could 2020 be a good year for MML electrification beyond Market Harborough? Here are the highlights of an intriguing twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/Rail_Elec/status/1225719446179909633


Earlier this week there was a decarbonisation roundtable with Network Rail, DfT, @raildeliverygrp and @railindustry. What did we learn about electrification and a rolling programme?

NR developing a Network Traction Decarbonisation Strategy; with two options: full decarb by 2050 (with a price tag) or by 2040 (with a price tag). Network Rail at pains to highlight that they don’t make funding decisions, but essentially creating a shopping list.

NR’s strategy will be issued in October, but there will be an interim issued in July. The July edition will feature a map, showing what will need to be electrified. We love maps – so this is music to our ears.

NR stated anywhere with 100mph service or an ‘intense’ timetable will need to be electrified. That leaves an open door to a lot of interpretation. However, is confirmation from Network Rail that at least some electrification is needed.

On the question of will rail electrification be funded? DfT highlighted that from a government perspective rail has advantages: the technology actually exists now & enabling it encourages more people to move to rail: ie: electric trains create more capacity.

NR states that the initial report will propose some early projects. Both DfT and NR agreed that this might enable funding for ‘no-brainer projects’ this year. MML – perhaps – no comment from the civil servants.
 

duffield

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Could 2020 be a good year for MML electrification beyond Market Harborough? Here are the highlights of an intriguing twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/Rail_Elec/status/1225719446179909633


Earlier this week there was a decarbonisation roundtable with Network Rail, DfT, @raildeliverygrp and @railindustry. What did we learn about electrification and a rolling programme?

NR developing a Network Traction Decarbonisation Strategy; with two options: full decarb by 2050 (with a price tag) or by 2040 (with a price tag). Network Rail at pains to highlight that they don’t make funding decisions, but essentially creating a shopping list.

NR’s strategy will be issued in October, but there will be an interim issued in July. The July edition will feature a map, showing what will need to be electrified. We love maps – so this is music to our ears.

NR stated anywhere with 100mph service or an ‘intense’ timetable will need to be electrified. That leaves an open door to a lot of interpretation. However, is confirmation from Network Rail that at least some electrification is needed.

On the question of will rail electrification be funded? DfT highlighted that from a government perspective rail has advantages: the technology actually exists now & enabling it encourages more people to move to rail: ie: electric trains create more capacity.

NR states that the initial report will propose some early projects. Both DfT and NR agreed that this might enable funding for ‘no-brainer projects’ this year. MML – perhaps – no comment from the civil servants.

Given where we are at now, it would make sense to go ahead with the bi-mode plan, progressively electrify the rest of the MML over (say) 10 years or whatever period is financially best value and/or least disruptive, then cascade the bi-modes to (e.g.) Cross-country (who would maybe have had the released EMR Meridians in the meantime), they would be significantly less than half the way through their lifetime. Does this seem reasonable?
 

Kettledrum

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Given where we are at now, it would make sense to go ahead with the bi-mode plan, progressively electrify the rest of the MML over (say) 10 years or whatever period is financially best value and/or least disruptive, then cascade the bi-modes to (e.g.) Cross-country (who would maybe have had the released EMR Meridians in the meantime), they would be significantly less than half the way through their lifetime. Does this seem reasonable?

Yes - very reasonable, but government policy isn't always reasonable.
 

Domh245

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Of course, there is always the option of simply removing engines from bi-modes, it's a feature of the other AT300 bi-modes so I'd be amazed if it wasn't also the case for these. After all, these have been sized rather specifically to fit around MML operations beyond having bi-modal capability, and whilst that compromise may mean that they aren't 100% perfect as EMUs, I don't see why a comparative micro-fleet of fairly customised units should be forced on another operator, who could always just order a full fleet of more conventional 26m AT300 bi-modes themselves!
 

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