I believe that is to allow better window alignment for the seating – compare the 196s which have five windows between the doors to Northern’s 196s that have only four.
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WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation
- Thread starter Old Hill Bank
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The width is, but they seem to be vertically smaller, too. It seems a quirk of CAF stock that the windows can be almost any height - they vary somewhat on the CS LHCS too.
Doveymain158
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Has any 196 vehicles been completed at Newport yet?
196101 at Velim test track (Czech Republic) on 10th February 2020. Taken on camera phone through a meshed fence/
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains-2020/February-2020-Czech-Republic/i-QVDKz2v/
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/Trains-2020/February-2020-Czech-Republic/i-QVDKz2v/
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/
Richard Clinnick reporting that first unit (ex Velim) will arrive in the West Midlands in "about a month". Also reporting that 60 of the vehicles will be assembled at Newport
Interesting, are the body shells being built in wales or are they doing what Hitachi do and just assembly?
AIUI it's a Hitachi type operation - a painted bodyshell is delivered to Newport from one of their spanish facilities and they then do the rest of the assembly
Bob Price
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One of Richards tweets from the Newport factory today.
https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1230834399614251008?s=19
https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1230834399614251008?s=19
city dweller
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Classy. Northern, this is what you could have won.
That does look nice. It’s refreshing to be able to see contours/padding on a new train’s seats for once! 
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
At least Northern’s trains have armrests! I’ll take the 195 please, at least those are an upgrade on what they’ve replaced. The above looks like a marked downgrade in passenger comfort from a WMR 170.
VT 390
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I have to say I am not that impressed with the interiors as when compared to the 170's which they will replace look like a huge downgrade.
This is because the seats do not have armrests (yet they have got tables) which I really don't understand why not as I thought it was to improve standing space but it does not look like there is much room gained and narrow armrests would not have taken that much space. I really prefer the Northern interiors, especially the seats as I would rather have a firm seat with armrests and more space than ones without.
Also the lack of luggage racks is not a good idea as some of the extra standing space will have Luggage in it instead.
Although the good thing is that the window alignment looks quite good and the overall capacity improvement will be very good (as long as they don't operate the 2 carriage units on their own).
This is because the seats do not have armrests (yet they have got tables) which I really don't understand why not as I thought it was to improve standing space but it does not look like there is much room gained and narrow armrests would not have taken that much space. I really prefer the Northern interiors, especially the seats as I would rather have a firm seat with armrests and more space than ones without.
Also the lack of luggage racks is not a good idea as some of the extra standing space will have Luggage in it instead.
Although the good thing is that the window alignment looks quite good and the overall capacity improvement will be very good (as long as they don't operate the 2 carriage units on their own).
RealTrains07
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Looks a lot better colour wise than northerns 195 and 331s as they are pretty bland minus the seats and the green handles
the purple hand rails and orange doors make them stand out at least
the purple hand rails and orange doors make them stand out at least
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes. They are very similar to Grammer E3000 Desiro seats.
AgentGemini
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The fact that they cannot couple upto 172s/170s will cause issues on the Snow Hill lines when introduced.
Someone asked if any of the WMT diesel services have splits in them - they do actually. At Snow Hill the 1800 off Kidderminster is usually a 5 or a 6 coach set and has been running around all day empty after the peak morning. It gets to Snow Hill and they split to form the 1845 Snow Hill to Leamington via Dorridge and the second set becomes the 1850 departure Snow Hill terminiating at...Dorridge. I jest you not.
Someone asked if any of the WMT diesel services have splits in them - they do actually. At Snow Hill the 1800 off Kidderminster is usually a 5 or a 6 coach set and has been running around all day empty after the peak morning. It gets to Snow Hill and they split to form the 1845 Snow Hill to Leamington via Dorridge and the second set becomes the 1850 departure Snow Hill terminiating at...Dorridge. I jest you not.
Could it be that it is operationally more convenient to split the service at Snow Hill rather than at Dorridge, as one avoids potential disruption with XC and Chiltern that may arise if the service is late or there are issues splitting.
TH172341
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Unlikely to cause that much of an issue - the 170/153 formations that already operate the line are already kept to their own set diagrams and I expect the 196s will simply drop in to replace those. WMR do a decent job of keeping things on their booked duties it would seem; the 172/0s are on their own booked Snow Hill line services too. Only time it may cause issues is ECS moves I expect but that will all be planned for and expected.
The split at Snow Hill being mentioned is a bit of an unusual one. The front 3 car set carries on to stable at Leamington overnight I believe with the rear 2 car set once it reaches Dorridge going out of service to run back to Tyseley depot.
Whilst the 170s in a fully refurbished state would be comparable in comfort levels to the 196s, compared to the current 153s that run some services this will be a massive improvement.
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I'm not sure how long the 172/0s are staying on the snow hill lines, from my understanding 196s would also do snow hill line services, the 172/0s are for more capacity temporarily. They are staying on the Leamington-Nuneaton service though.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Is there a plan to get rid of the 172s? If not, what do they move onto?
That 196s will be used on the Snow Hill lines explains the lack of armrests, 172s don't have them either, their seating is a bit like Merseyrail in being spaced like "IC" but without the armrests themselves, the 196 looks similar.
anamyd
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172s are staying, 170s are going
Sleeperwaking
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TBH, I'd rather have no armrests than having a fixed arm rest against the train wall - I always find those really uncomfortable.
the sniper
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I imagine he's specifically referring to the /0s without gangways. Not the /2 & /3s.
RealTrains07
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That’s interesting considering the 196s priority will be taking over the services run by the 170s and 153s. Must have more than needed if they are putting them on the snow hill lines too.
172/0s have done services to Hereford and Worcester before maybe they will have a mix of both 196s and 172/0s across both lines.
I doubt WMR would replace them considering nothing has been announced officially saying they plan to do so?
172/0s have done services to Hereford and Worcester before maybe they will have a mix of both 196s and 172/0s across both lines.
I doubt WMR would replace them considering nothing has been announced officially saying they plan to do so?
I am
Prestige15
On Moderation
Thicker seat with no armreast or a seat as thin as leann rimes, I know what i'll go for..
'Leann rimes'?
RealTrains07
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At least the 196s are more compliant than the 195s. The hand rails contrast the rest of the train.