Does Delay Repay still count if I gave up and caught the bus?

My train from Surbiton to Thames Ditton was cancelled. The next one would have meant a 30 minute wait. So I gave up, caught the bus part of the way home and walked the rest. I was over 15 minutes late, but SW Trains have rejected my claim.
I travel on an Oyster Card and have provided a screenshot of my TFL Travel details for that day, including the bus.
Have SW Trains rejected my claim because I caught a bus rather than waiting 30 mins for the next train? Their rejection just says I " Some of the required information is missing from your application". I can't think what else to provide.

Delay repay only applies where you are delayed making a train journey, and you don't appear to have made a train journey. If you had waited for the next train, then you would have been entitled to delay repay.

You may have grounds for a customer complaint because of the cancelled train. In cases of cancelled trains, if you don't travel, you are entitled to a refund of your ticket. However, you also don't appear to have bought a ticket for this specific journey, as you were using Oyster. How were you using your Oystercard: by PAYG or by travelcard loaded onto the Oyster? Also, is there any record on your Oyster history of you entering and then exiting Surbiton station as evidence that you ever attempted to catch the cancelled train?

Did you start your journey at Surbiton, or were you attempting to change trains there? I have made successful claims (admittedly with other TOCs) where I have abandoned a journey part-way through, and completed it by bus due to a missed or cancelled connection. These had to be raised as customer complaints, rather than delay repay, as I didn't complete my rail journey. However, the TOCs concerned have always paid them based on what time I would have arrived had I waited for the next train. In these cases, I had at least commenced my rail journey.

I had travelled from Waterloo by train, but as the Waterloo to Thames Ditton train was cancelled I had to get a different train and get off at Surbiton. Was attempting to make the last part of the journey to Thames Ditton (by train). Could have waited 30 minutes for next train and claimed 30 minutes delay but decided to get the bus & walk, and claim only 15 minute delay.

Yes, oyster card which covers London Zone 6 right out to Thames Ditton, clearly shows when I entered London Waterloo and exited at Surbiton. It also shows how I entered at Thames Ditton that morning (and every morning and evening on other days). This was supplied.

We're not talking a lot of money here, but I'm just curious what the rules are. Can you only claim if you sit at the station and wait for another non-cancelled train, or can you still claim if you give up and leave the station? From the answer above it would seem that this is considered a "missed connection" and needs a complaint.

I would have thought that the cost to SWR of reviewing and rejecting the claim, even if OP doesn't appeal the rejection, probably exceeds the value of the repayment claimed. Surely the TOCs ought to have a de minimus related to the average cost of reviewing a claim, below which they will normally automatically accept the claim. Of course, it'd be sensible to flag up individuals or routes that generate a higher than normal sub-de minimus claims for manual review, but I bet such a policy would save the TOCs money over the long run.

It's an abandoned journey so Delay Repay doesn't apply but you are entitled to a full refund of any rail fare you paid under NRCoT Condition 30. If you weren't charged anything because you took the bus then there is no more to come back, but if you have been charged anything for the rail journey you can make a claim to the relevant customer services dept, rather than the delay repay claim process.

rpjs said:

I would have thought that the cost to SWR of reviewing and rejecting the claim, even if OP doesn't appeal the rejection, probably exceeds the value of the repayment claimed. Surely the TOCs ought to have a de minimus related to the average cost of reviewing a claim, below which they will normally automatically accept the claim. Of course, it'd be sensible to flag up individuals or routes that generate a higher than normal sub-de minimus claims for manual review, but I bet such a policy would save the TOCs money over the long run.

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I'm pretty sure it is all automated now, especially since they brought in the new DR system.

I've already had all my Eastleigh-related delays accepted, but a claim from Monday rejected as I said my train was cancelled and I had a 30 minute delay. SWR rejected it saying the next train I could have got was 4 minutes later, but they don't take into account I was sat on the train for 20 minutes before being told it was cancelled!

Given how many claims they must have had in the last week, I'm sure it is all automated (especially as they removed the free text box to explain delays).

fern3 said:

I had travelled from Waterloo by train, but as the Waterloo to Thames Ditton train was cancelled I had to get a different train and get off at Surbiton. Was attempting to make the last part of the journey to Thames Ditton (by train). Could have waited 30 minutes for next train and claimed 30 minutes delay but decided to get the bus & walk, and claim only 15 minute delay.

Yes, oyster card which covers London Zone 6 right out to Thames Ditton, clearly shows when I entered London Waterloo and exited at Surbiton. It also shows how I entered at Thames Ditton that morning (and every morning and evening on other days). This was supplied.

We're not talking a lot of money here, but I'm just curious what the rules are. Can you only claim if you sit at the station and wait for another non-cancelled train, or can you still claim if you give up and leave the station? From the answer above it would seem that this is considered a "missed connection" and needs a complaint.

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Delay repay only applies for rail journeys. You abandoned your rail journey part-way through, so delay repay doesn't apply. You would have been entitled to delay repay if you had waited for the next train, and completed your rail journey. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get any compensation, it just means that you need to raise a customer complaint, rather than a delay repay claim.

You could perhaps have claimed delay-repay for your journey to Surbiton, as your intended train from Waterloo was cancelled, and you caught a later train to Surbiton. Provided that you arrived at Surbiton at least 15 minutes later.

I am still not clear how you were using your Oyster card, as pay as you go, or with a loaded travel card, which could affect the compensation. However, I suggest that you raise a customer complaint, stating the time of the Thames Ditton train that you had intended catching at Waterloo that was cancelled and the time that should have got you to Thames Ditton, the time of the train that you actually caught from Waterloo to Surbiton, the time of the connection from Surbiton that was also cancelled, and the time that you would finally have got to Thames Ditton had you waited for the next connection. In similar circumstances, I have had compensation paid using the same formula as delay-repay. If your Oyster history also shows the bus fare that you paid, or you have a receipt for it, I suggest that you also ask for that to be refunded, but be prepared for that to be rejected, particularly as catching the bus doesn't appear to have saved much time.

thedbdiboy said:

It's an abandoned journey so Delay Repay doesn't apply but you are entitled to a full refund of any rail fare you paid under NRCoT Condition 30. If you weren't charged anything because you took the bus then there is no more to come back, but if you have been charged anything for the rail journey you can make a claim to the relevant customer services dept, rather than the delay repay claim process.

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I agree. If you purchased the ticket from us, we will issue you with a full refund. I would expect other retailers to do the same.

SickyNicky said:

I agree. If you purchased the ticket from us, we will issue you with a full refund. I would expect other retailers to do the same.

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Even though the journey was part completed? And he used an Oystercard?

Belperpete said:

Even though the journey was part completed? And he used an Oystercard?

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Yes, if you get partway there and have to abandon your journey that counts. It's based on the EU Passenger Rights Obligations (EUPRO) which have been transposed into UK law. The Oystercard is immaterial, it's a refund of what you paid.

thedbdiboy said:

Yes, if you get partway there and have to abandon your journey that counts. It's based on the EU Passenger Rights Obligations (EUPRO) which have been transposed into UK law. The Oystercard is immaterial, it's a refund of what you paid.

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I assume there is a definition of "partway"? I have on occasions got to MKC on time intending to connect for Bletchley but given up due to a cancellation meaning a long wait, it wouldn't seem reasonable there to get a full refund as the TOC has got me most of the way, though if I waited I might be entitled to partial[1] Delay Repay. (I have also waited when not in a hurry in order to get said Delay Repay )

[1] Due to the frequency at most times of day other than the irritating hour long gap on a Sunday evening it's typically a 30 minute claim at most.

No, but obviously details would need to be provided and I would be surprised if a claim for a journey of 100 miles advised as abandoned a mile before the destination wasn't scrutinised with extra care.....Delay Repay is by far the most common form of redress for delays but it is always worth reminding people that a journey that could not be started or was not completed is covered under a different part of the NRCoT.

It seems to me that what the OP has done is reasonable. If it was something significant enough to involve court action then the court would want to see you had mitigated your loss. Catching the bus anreducing the delay to 15 minutes appears to be mitigating the loss. I would resubmit the claim just saying I caught the bus to mitigate the delay, waiting for the train I would be 30 minutes late, I was only 15 late

Chrisgr31 said:

It seems to me that what the OP has done is reasonable. If it was something significant enough to involve court action then the court would want to see you had mitigated your loss. Catching the bus anreducing the delay to 15 minutes appears to be mitigating the loss. I would resubmit the claim just saying I caught the bus to mitigate the delay, waiting for the train I would be 30 minutes late, I was only 15 late

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Agreed that what the OP did was reasonable, but that does not mean it is covered by delay-repay. He should resubmit his claim as a customer complaint.

thedbdiboy said:

The Oystercard is immaterial, it's a refund of what you paid.

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I think you are missing the point about the Oystercard : if he didn't pay anything, there is nothing to refund.

Good news - I have today received a Delay Repay payment, after clicking the Appeal button when they originally rejected it.

If you get part way there and don't return to the origin it appears to be a grey area and it can be difficult to claim Delay Repay.

The rail industry really doesn't seem to know what to do about such journeys. If a refund was applied for then arguably they should take into account the use you did get if the ticket, so Delay Repay based on what would have happened seems reasonable. But the 'official' position is far from clear. I have seen TOCs arguing on Twitter over this!

I'm glad SWR took a pragmatic view eventually.

Belperpete said:

Delay repay only applies where you are delayed making a train journey, and you don't appear to have made a train journey. If you had waited for the next train, then you would have been entitled to delay repay.

You may have grounds for a customer complaint because of the cancelled train. In cases of cancelled trains, if you don't travel, you are entitled to a refund of your ticket. However, you also don't appear to have bought a ticket for this specific journey, as you were using Oyster. How were you using your Oystercard: by PAYG or by travelcard loaded onto the Oyster? Also, is there any record on your Oyster history of you entering and then exiting Surbiton station as evidence that you ever attempted to catch the cancelled train?

Did you start your journey at Surbiton, or were you attempting to change trains there? I have made successful claims (admittedly with other TOCs) where I have abandoned a journey part-way through, and completed it by bus due to a missed or cancelled connection. These had to be raised as customer complaints, rather than delay repay, as I didn't complete my rail journey. However, the TOCs concerned have always paid them based on what time I would have arrived had I waited for the next train. In these cases, I had at least commenced my rail journey.

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Is that right? SWR state

Delay Repay compensation is based on the delay to your overall journey, so if a cancellation delays your overall journey by 15 minutes or more you will be entitled to Delay Repay compensation. We will base our assessment for your compensation on you catching the next available train - you can tell us if you weren't able to do this and we'll take that into account.

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OP chose to go via an alternative route and claim compensation.

I frequently claim compensation when a cancellation causes me to go via an alternative route and I've never had an issue. Before they took the text box away I used to state this on the form.

SWT_USER said:

I frequently claim compensation when a cancellation causes me to go via an alternative route and I've never had an issue. Before they took the text box away I used to state this on the form.

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Are you referring to a Season ticket?

If you held a non-Season and did not use the ticket, then Delay Repay is not applicable and a refund should be issued instead.

yorkie said:

Are you referring to a Season ticket?

If you held a non-Season and did not use the ticket, then Delay Repay is not applicable and a refund should be issued instead.

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Yes, I should have said I'm referring to a season ticket.

In previous cases, we have discussed this question where train services were cancelled, due to a problem on the line, with no estimate for when services would be restored. I would argue that, in that situation, the company is obliged to provide alternative means, and because of that if they don't and you procure them yourself it does not invalidate any part of your contract. You can under those circumstances claim delay repay normally, even if for all or part of the journey you didn't use a train, as long as you were delayed for a qualifying period. Incidentally, you should also be entitled to claim costs under those circumstances.

However, a train being cancelled and the company advising you that another is on its way in 30 minutes time is a different matter. The company would be well advised to pay even if someone didn't wait the full 30 minutes and got a taxi or bus (or walked), but it's rather more unclear. If it were me, I would have been tempted to wait for convenience and also in order to be able to make the claim. Of course, some people might me in rather more of a hurry.

I recently made a claim for a refund on my season ticket which covered the day Storm Ciara caused large numbers of cancellations. The company who sold my ticket and with whom I was expecting to be travelling advised people not to travel unnecessarily so I took their advice and wrote to them asking for a refund. They replied transferring my claim to the Delay Repay process. Of course, I expect they will get this wrong and pay 2 hours 'Delay Repay' which is only half of the daily rate that I had been expecting to be refunded.