Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

Meerkat · 8 Feb 2020

C J Snarzell said:
The jury is still out for me about Debenhams. I have a Debenhams credit card and just recently I have recieved letters from them about changes afoot with my account. I have a feeling they may sell that side of the business to another company in due course

Not sure Debenhams have ever run their own credit cards. It was Santander for years and then they sold all their store card business to Newday.

I reckon one, maybe two, of the department store chains will survive, probably John Lewis (if they can keep their reputation with higher end customers) and one mass market.
I just think that enough people want to go look at products, talk to a salespeople, and have somewhere to return things and complain. Also the bigger towns/shopping centres realise they need anchor stores and will drop rents to negligible levels to keep one.

Given the similarity in markets could John Lewis raise funds to “rescue” M&S, mainly to rationalise the estates and use the brand name as their “value” brand?

RailUK Forums

tbtc · 8 Feb 2020

jon0844 said:
Maybe the attempt to appeal to every demographic in a single store just doesn't work. Young people seem to hate shopping in the same place as old people (and vice versa) so I wonder why they never thought to divide the shop up more like Arcadia did/does.

Interesting idea.

M&S do sell some things aimed at the "under 50" market but it's spread so thinly amongst their stores that I generally can't be bothered - shops have had a "children's floor" for many years - if there was an "under 50s" floor then I'd be much more tempted - maybe even going for much smaller stores devoted to younger people (instead of the huge spaces they currently rent)?

C J Snarzell said:
Another business I reckon will go in the next few years is Morrisons - I've seen three close near to where I live (Wigan town centre, Ince-in-Makerfield & Tyldesley) and they are still not doing great. Their Morrison local stores lasted about 5 minutes and again I've always found them slightly expensive compared to Asda & Tesco

Morrisons is a funny one - at the millennium they seemed to be a great all round supermarket, combining the cheapness of ASDA/Tesco with the old-school butchers/fishmongers etc

Now though, they seem quite expensive in an ALDI/LIDL environment, they struggled to digest Safeway, by the time they got things on an even keel they'd left it too late to properly get into the "Local"/"Express" market, they got their fingers burn there and retreated - I'm not sure they know what their gap in the market is nowadays

Meerkat said:
I reckon one, maybe two, of the department store chains will survive, probably John Lewis (if they can keep their reputation with higher end customers) and one mass market

I'm wondering if Mike Ashley's plan is to keep funding House Of Fraser until he runs at least one of the other big chains into the ground - there ought to be a big enough market for a couple of department store chains in the UK but too many at the moment - so it could be a question of who has the deepest pockets.

GusB · 9 Feb 2020

tbtc said:
Morrisons is a funny one - at the millennium they seemed to be a great all round supermarket, combining the cheapness of ASDA/Tesco with the old-school butchers/fishmongers etc

Now though, they seem quite expensive in an ALDI/LIDL environment, they struggled to digest Safeway, by the time they got things on an even keel they'd left it too late to properly get into the "Local"/"Express" market, they got their fingers burn there and retreated - I'm not sure they know what their gap in the market is nowadays

I've never been a regular Morrison's shopper as there isn't a branch nearby, but I have visited the one in Inverness on several occasions and it never really impressed me that much. I do like that they've retained the counters, though.

I worked for Safeway not long before they were bought over by Morrison's. They'd just gone through a restructure, and the decision had been made to axe the Presto name and rebrand all their stores as Safeway. Having been seconded to a couple of the former Presto stores to help with their "relaunch", I always got the impression that those stores were somewhat neglected in favour of the larger Safeway branches (indeed Safeway were still building new, larger stores at this point). This was brought home when I eventually transferred to an ex-Presto branch in Aberdeen (big mistake!) where the fixtures appeared to be of 70s vintage and the manager came out of the Ark. It didn't help that Safeway maintained separate districts for the smaller and "mainstream" Safeway stores, and there was a distinctly separate culture; it never felt that they were truly integrated.

My local branch in Elgin was an interesting case. It had been a Co-op (Norco) and was taken over and branded as a Safeway. It was smaller than most, but carried the full range. Morrison's ran it briefly, but got rid because it was too small. Somerfield then took it on for a time, but closed it not long afterwards - maybe it was too large for them, or perhaps it was more to do with Tesco relocating to a brand new Extra store nearby. Ironically, had it survived it would probably be a Co-op again!

Anyhow, to cut what's probably too long a story short: were Morrison's perhaps too hasty in ditching the former Presto stores? I suppose it's easy to look back with hindsight.

TheEdge · 9 Feb 2020

Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

At least not in its current form. The MAX grounding must be absolutely crippling that division of the company. And the reputation of the aircraft that makes up 4,661 of its 5,948 outstanding order book is in absolute tatters.

Or maybe its just too big to fail...

dgl · 9 Feb 2020

Beales now have a list of 12 stores that are defiantly closing, after not being able to sell the business as a going concern, with the others staying open with the hope that they find a buyer for what's left.
One surprise is that Bournemouth is in the list given that's where it all started and where it is run from. One thing that MAY save Bournemouth is the plan to convert the upper floors into flats, not only bringing in some much needed cash but I believe it should also reduce their business rates due to the lowing of floor space, which are currently over £400,000 a year.

The ones that will close in ~8 weeks are, Bournemouth, Hexham, Worthing, Tonbridge, Peterborough, Mansfield, Keighley, Perth, Spalding, Wisbech, Bedford and Yeovil.

DaleCooper · 9 Feb 2020

TheEdge said:
Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

At least not in its current form. The MAX grounding must be absolutely crippling that division of the company. And the reputation of the aircraft that makes up 4,661 of its 5,948 outstanding order book is in absolute tatters.

Or maybe its just too big to fail...

Things have gone quiet on that story over the past few weeks. What's happening?

ComUtoR · 9 Feb 2020

DaleCooper said:
Things have gone quiet on that story over the past few weeks. What's happening?

The last story I heard was that the FAA found more software problems :/

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/06/business/boeing-737-max-software/index.html

New York (CNN Business)A new software issue has been discovered on the Boeing 737 Max, but the company said Thursday it does not think it will further delay its return to service.

The company said the issue involves an indicator light staying on longer than intended. The light is associated with the stabilizer trim system, which raises and lowers the plane's nose.
Boeing said the problem was discovered during flight testing of the 737 Max's updated software. It said the problem was with the inputs into the plane's flight control computers.
"We are incorporating a change to the 737 Max software prior to the fleet returning to service to ensure that this indicator light only illuminates as intended."
The 737 Max has been grounded worldwide since March following two fatal crashes that killed 346 people. The crashes have been linked to a safety system designed to force down the nose of the plane in case it was climbing too fast and was at risk of stalling. Boeing has been working on a fix of the software on that system for more than a year.
Since its grounding, investigators and Boeing engineers have identified several other issues with the plane. Boeing let the FAA and its airline customers know about the problem with the light during the week of Jan. 20, the company said. It was revealed publicly on Thursday by Federal Aviation Administration Administrator Steve Dickson when he was answering reporters' questions following remarks in London.
The same week Boeing disclosed the problem with the light to the FAA, it announced publicly that it believed the Max would not be approved to return to service until the middle of this year.

pdq · 9 Feb 2020

Re Morrisons. Their 'market place' counters are excellent: for example the fish counter is consistently the best of any supermarket, with proper fishmongers serving a wide range of seafood prepared as you want. In comparison, my local massive Tesco Extra has got rid of all the fish, meat and deli counters so if you want anything in the slightest bit unusual, either in terms of variety or size, then forget it.

DaleCooper · 9 Feb 2020

I was surprised to discover that Maplin still exists although only online.

dgl · 9 Feb 2020

pdq said:
Re Morrisons. Their 'market place' counters are excellent: for example the fish counter is consistently the best of any supermarket, with proper fishmongers serving a wide range of seafood prepared as you want. In comparison, my local massive Tesco Extra has got rid of all the fish, meat and deli counters so if you want anything in the slightest bit unusual, either in terms of variety or size, then forget it.

And they seem to be expanding said offer, as whilst they are getting rid of a lot of managers that is made up for in the extra hiring of employees for the shop floor, including counters. Completely flying in the face of other supermarkets.

Another brand that I expect will lose all its standalone stores is Argos, most seem to be moving into Sainsbury's where available and the one in Weymouth has just announced it's closure.

Steddenm · 9 Feb 2020

DaleCooper said:
I was surprised to discover that Maplin still exists although only online.

The assets were purchased from the old company and relaunched online.

Also, Didn't realise that Poundworld were back as One Below.

tbtc · 9 Feb 2020

I was back in the Sheffield CEX yesterday - glad I read the earlier clarification (as I'd also got confused about a mythical upstairs!)

As well as noticing that the balance of shop floor has been tipped more in favour of "games" and "hardware", there's also no longer a "children's" section of DVDs - maybe because there's less of a distinction nowadays and so many things (e.g. superheroes) targeted at both kids and adults (so no stigma)?

GusB said:
I've never been a regular Morrison's shopper as there isn't a branch nearby, but I have visited the one in Inverness on several occasions and it never really impressed me that much. I do like that they've retained the counters, though.

I worked for Safeway not long before they were bought over by Morrison's. They'd just gone through a restructure, and the decision had been made to axe the Presto name and rebrand all their stores as Safeway. Having been seconded to a couple of the former Presto stores to help with their "relaunch", I always got the impression that those stores were somewhat neglected in favour of the larger Safeway branches (indeed Safeway were still building new, larger stores at this point). This was brought home when I eventually transferred to an ex-Presto branch in Aberdeen (big mistake!) where the fixtures appeared to be of 70s vintage and the manager came out of the Ark. It didn't help that Safeway maintained separate districts for the smaller and "mainstream" Safeway stores, and there was a distinctly separate culture; it never felt that they were truly integrated.

My local branch in Elgin was an interesting case. It had been a Co-op (Norco) and was taken over and branded as a Safeway. It was smaller than most, but carried the full range. Morrison's ran it briefly, but got rid because it was too small. Somerfield then took it on for a time, but closed it not long afterwards - maybe it was too large for them, or perhaps it was more to do with Tesco relocating to a brand new Extra store nearby. Ironically, had it survived it would probably be a Co-op again!

Anyhow, to cut what's probably too long a story short: were Morrison's perhaps too hasty in ditching the former Presto stores? I suppose it's easy to look back with hindsight.

Very interesting post!

My home town had a Presto that became a Safeway but they pretty much knocked the (still relatively modern) building down to properly convert it - I'd forgotten about the Presto days, but what you say makes a lot of sense as there were clearly two different cultures.

I wonder if Presto had survived a little longer if it'd have found a home in a world of Kwik Save/ Netto (and other discounted 90s supermarkets)?

dgl said:
Beales now have a list of 12 stores that are defiantly closing, after not being able to sell the business as a going concern, with the others staying open with the hope that they find a buyer for what's left.
One surprise is that Bournemouth is in the list given that's where it all started and where it is run from. One thing that MAY save Bournemouth is the plan to convert the upper floors into flats, not only bringing in some much needed cash but I believe it should also reduce their business rates due to the lowing of floor space, which are currently over £400,000 a year.

The ones that will close in ~8 weeks are, Bournemouth, Hexham, Worthing, Tonbridge, Peterborough, Mansfield, Keighley, Perth, Spalding, Wisbech, Bedford and Yeovil.

I've never been in a Beales (always had them confused with "Boyes", but the East Yorkshire retailer are a different kettle of fish...), but the viability of the Perth store is an interesting one - there's certainly some money around Perthshire but it's quote out on a limb compared to the rest of the operation

pdq said:
Re Morrisons. Their 'market place' counters are excellent: for example the fish counter is consistently the best of any supermarket, with proper fishmongers serving a wide range of seafood prepared as you want. In comparison, my local massive Tesco Extra has got rid of all the fish, meat and deli counters so if you want anything in the slightest bit unusual, either in terms of variety or size, then forget it.

Same here - I was surprised when Tesco opened it that they put in such things as I thought they were something only "legacy" branches would have - but must be quite a staffing cost

dgl said:
Another brand that I expect will lose all its standalone stores is Argos, most seem to be moving into Sainsbury's where available and the one in Weymouth has just announced it's closure.

True - although I've bought a lot more from Argos (and a but more from Sainsburys) since the merger; I can now pop out at ten o'clock at night and collect something I've ordered online - significantly more convenient than ordering from Amazon or going to the post depot in limited hours or trailing home from the city centre with a bulky package... plus I invariably pick up cat food/ milk etc... it's a great set-up

D365 · 9 Feb 2020

dgl said:
Beales now have a list of 12 stores that are defiantly closing, after not being able to sell the business as a going concern, with the others staying open with the hope that they find a buyer for what's left.
One surprise is that Bournemouth is in the list given that's where it all started and where it is run from. One thing that MAY save Bournemouth is the plan to convert the upper floors into flats, not only bringing in some much needed cash but I believe it should also reduce their business rates due to the lowing of floor space, which are currently over £400,000 a year.

The ones that will close in ~8 weeks are, Bournemouth, Hexham, Worthing, Tonbridge, Peterborough, Mansfield, Keighley, Perth, Spalding, Wisbech, Bedford and Yeovil.

I'm very surprised that Peterborough, Spalding and Wisbech are in that list, but not St. Neots.

matacaster · 9 Feb 2020

At my local Morrisons which has lots checkout stations, the number of supervisory staff tends to alarming. I have seen (admittedly some time ago), the checkouts that were open with long queues and THREE supervisors deciding which ONE spare member of staff should open a new checkout. It didn't seem to occur to them that if they stopped talking and sat on a checkout themselves, the queue's would dissipate and the customers happy.

One of the main reasons that ALDI and LIDL are so successful is that they demand total flexibility from the managers and staff to do ANY job that needs doing and pay pretty well in return. The big four major supermarkets appear to have demarcation lines between jobs which means that although the aisles need filling and there are staff sitting on their butts at the checkouts, they simply sit there.

richw · 9 Feb 2020

Morrisons recently announced a consultation to reduce management roles and increase normal staffing, as did Sainsbury’s

jfollows · 9 Feb 2020

gray1404 said:
I don't expect Marks and Spencer to be around in another 10 years

I agree with you.

I worked at their Stockley Park data centre in the 1990s, not as their employee but as an employee of one of their IT suppliers (IBM). It was interesting to see how well M&S were doing and how well its employees were treated. The canteen was very cheap and served excellent food.

As a customer, I started work in 1984 and always bought work clothes from them when I started out. My grandmother always shopped at their Macclesfield store when she could.

I've stopped working now, but I stopped being a customer a long time ago. Firstly, when I tried to buy some shoes but they told me they couldn't or wouldn't measure my feet. I don't know what my shoe size is. So no sale there. Second time I was with my partner when we tried to buy a posh outfit, firstly it was hard to find someone to help us and then it turned out that they didn't stock his size in store, we had to buy on-line.

OK, so I wasn't impressed, but I just feel that they've not moved with the times. And I don't understand at all why anyone would buy food from them, it's overpriced and lacking in variety.

Like you, I don't expect them to be around in the near future.

EDIT: Oh, and when they stopped "buying British" I couldn't see why I should pay a premium for their products any more.

DaleCooper · 9 Feb 2020

D365 said:
I'm very surprised that Peterborough, Spalding and Wisbech are in that list, but not St. Neots.

Perhaps there's less competition in St. Neots.

TheEdge · 9 Feb 2020

DaleCooper said:
Things have gone quiet on that story over the past few weeks. What's happening?

Boeing keep trying to suggest it'll be ready soon. Then the FAA slam the door on them and tell them that the FAA will decide when it's ready, not Boeing.

But new software issues keep popping up.

DaleCooper · 9 Feb 2020

TheEdge said:
Boeing keep trying to suggest it'll be ready soon. Then the FAA slam the door on them and tell them that the FAA will decide when it's ready, not Boeing.

But new software issues keep popping up.

What's wrong with the FAA these days? Why don't they just do as they're told by Boeing?

LOL The Irony · 9 Feb 2020

DaleCooper said:
What's wrong with the FAA these days? Why don't they just do as they're told by Boeing?

Those pesky regulators finally doing their job. And we would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling crashes!

underbank · 9 Feb 2020

pdq said:
Re Morrisons. Their 'market place' counters are excellent: for example the fish counter is consistently the best of any supermarket, with proper fishmongers serving a wide range of seafood prepared as you want. In comparison, my local massive Tesco Extra has got rid of all the fish, meat and deli counters so if you want anything in the slightest bit unusual, either in terms of variety or size, then forget it.

I agree, except for their "in store" bakery which I find incredibly poor, often with products on the shelves with same day "best before" dates which were obviously "baked" a couple of days earlier. I used to buy them thinking there were just 1 day shelf life, but they were usually stale so that proved they were old stock. I think an "in store" bakery should have bread/cakes/buns etc actually cooked that day, but obviously Morrisons think otherwise. I've also had cherry scones with no cherries, hot cross buns that were undercooked and soggy inside. Now, I don't even go to look.

cactustwirly · 9 Feb 2020

underbank said:
I agree, except for their "in store" bakery which I find incredibly poor, often with products on the shelves with same day "best before" dates which were obviously "baked" a couple of days earlier. I used to buy them thinking there were just 1 day shelf life, but they were usually stale so that proved they were old stock. I think an "in store" bakery should have bread/cakes/buns etc actually cooked that day, but obviously Morrisons think otherwise. I've also had cherry scones with no cherries, hot cross buns that were undercooked and soggy inside. Now, I don't even go to look.

Lidl have an instore bakery, and is actually better than other supermarkets offerings, as the bread is actually properly cooked, and everything is freshly baked.
Ok they probably have the dough pre made and brought in frozen, but I' guessing this is the same across all of the supermarkets.

Red Onion · 9 Feb 2020

cactustwirly said:
Lidl have an instore bakery, and is actually better than other supermarkets offerings, as the bread is actually properly cooked, and everything is freshly baked.
Ok they probably have the dough pre made and brought in frozen, but I' guessing this is the same across all of the supermarkets.

I miss living next to Lidl purely for their bakery. Fresh tiger bread was a guilty pleasure of mine!

Ashley Hill · 9 Feb 2020

I'm surprised HMV are still hanging on. I was in their Taunton branch recently and I was the only customer in there. According to Plymouth Live the Plymouth store in the "prestigeous" Drakes Circus has closed,relocated and downsized to the old Maplins store. The Bristol branch never seems that busy either.

DaleCooper · 9 Feb 2020

Ashley Hill said:
I'm surprised HMV are still hanging on. I was in their Taunton branch recently and I was the only customer in there. According to Plymouth Live the Plymouth store in the "prestigeous" Drakes Circus has closed,relocated and downsized to the old Maplins store. The Bristol branch never seems that busy either.

I found out just a couple of days ago that HMV still exists . I thought they had all closed. The Peterborough branch closed but they're still open in Kettering, Boston and Kings Lynn, I can only think the rent was too high in Peterborough.

Ashley Hill · 9 Feb 2020

When all these big high street names started closing I was surprised how many of them didn't own the buildings they occupied even though they had been there for decades.

Typhoon · 9 Feb 2020

underbank said:
I agree, except for their "in store" bakery which I find incredibly poor, often with products on the shelves with same day "best before" dates which were obviously "baked" a couple of days earlier. I used to buy them thinking there were just 1 day shelf life, but they were usually stale so that proved they were old stock. I think an "in store" bakery should have bread/cakes/buns etc actually cooked that day, but obviously Morrisons think otherwise. I've also had cherry scones with no cherries, hot cross buns that were undercooked and soggy inside. Now, I don't even go to look.

Maybe it depends on the store. I sometimes buy rolls, cakes or buns from the in-store bakery at my local (fairly small) Morrisons and find they are still pretty good after a couple of days. I'm not surprised about the cherry scones though, they do seem to be a touch mean with the fillings.

tbtc · 9 Feb 2020

I'm wondering about takeaway delivery companies - is there really a market out there for as many as we currently have?

There's been a huge increase in them in the past five years but they've surely reached market saturation (any independent place that hasn't signed up to Just Eat/ Deliveroo etc by now are surely never going to), there's talk of a transaction tax on such online purchases, the market can't keep growing and growing - there must come a point when at least one of the big players decides that the planned market share hasn't happened (or, it has happened but it isn't profitable)?

I'm wondering if this is going to be the late 2010s version of the plethora of "118" companies that we had in the early years of the millennium - everyone dashed into the market but it wasn't sustainable.

Ashley Hill said:
When all these big high street names started closing I was surprised how many of them didn't own the buildings they occupied even though they had been there for decades.

They may have owned them at one stage, then the accountants decided to sell them to rent them, as a way of making the accounting look better - a sudden cash injection (but sometimes a false economy in the medium/long term)?

Plus, it's maybe a way of trying to squeeze costs down, arguing with the "greedy" landlords for a rent reduction (when you sold them that retail space a few years ago, with a promise to honour a certain level of monthly rent) - can't try to make such economies when you already own the building!

richw · 9 Feb 2020

tbtc said:
I'm wondering about takeaway delivery companies - is there really a market out there for as many as we currently have?

they have very low outgoings I imagine. Deliverers all self employed, pretty much only outgoings will be web maintenance and chasing new business

Busaholic · 9 Feb 2020

matacaster said:
At my local Morrisons which has lots checkout stations, the number of supervisory staff tends to alarming. I have seen (admittedly some time ago), the checkouts that were open with long queues and THREE supervisors deciding which ONE spare member of staff should open a new checkout. It didn't seem to occur to them that if they stopped talking and sat on a checkout themselves, the queue's would dissipate and the customers happy.

One of the main reasons that ALDI and LIDL are so successful is that they demand total flexibility from the managers and staff to do ANY job that needs doing and pay pretty well in return. The big four major supermarkets appear to have demarcation lines between jobs which means that although the aisles need filling and there are staff sitting on their butts at the checkouts, they simply sit there.

My experience too - we have Morrison's, Tesco's and Sainsbury within less than a mile of one another, and I use them all. Morrison's is the only one where the supervisors won't demean themselves by 'jumping on' the tills, as they call it. They will, just about, go to the four self-service tills when the remaining functioning one gets a hissy fit. I've dumped my shopping trolley and walked out on a few occasions, all in the last couple of years, which I've never done in Tesco and only once in Sainsbury.

Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

On Moderation

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member