Today's Avanti tickets valid after 12:00 tomorrow, due to cancellation today - can I travel earlier?

kiancross · 9 Feb 2020

I have the following split ticketed journey (for today):

Chester (16:36) - Frodsham (Anytime day)
Frodsham - Oxenholme (changing at Warrington Bank Quay 17:03) (Off-peak)
Oxenholme Lake District (18:24) - Haymarket (Advanced) (changing at Haymarket)
Harmarket (21:05) - Leuchars (Advanced)

Avanti services are cancelled north of Preston at the moment, making the journey impossible to complete today.

I called Avanti and they said tickets for all services will be valid tomorrow, but for Avanti only after 12:00. (Although for Scotrail, I don't see anything on their website indicating that they would accept my ticket?)

Can they really enforce the 'only after 12:00'. Surely I'm allowed to get the next service available? I want to travel from 06:43 to get to my destination as soon as possible, otherwise if I follow Avanti's advice and travel 'as close to the time on my tickets as possible' I'll arrive 24hrs later, which is a huge inconvenience.

Additionally, what would happens if you start your journey and get 30 mins away (e.g. to Warrington) when you know your onward journey from there is cancelled? I assume in instances such as bad whether they don't have to provide onward transport, especially if the disruption was publicised prior to the start of the journey?

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Nippy · 9 Feb 2020

It does seem particularly nasty of Avanti to have put this 'rule' in place. LNER haven't. .

Bletchleyite · 9 Feb 2020

kiancross said:
Additionally, what would happens if you start your journey and get 30 mins away (e.g. to Warrington) when you know your onwards journey from there is cancelled? I assume in instances such as bad whether they don't have to provide onwards transport, especially if the disruption was publicised prior to the start of the journey?

They are required to provide hotel accommodation "if they reasonably can" if no onward travel is possible. Fortunately, Sunday is the quietest night of the week for hotels, so there is little excuse not to, but I don't doubt they will use such an excuse.

kiancross · 9 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
They are required to provide hotel accommodation "if they reasonably can" if no onward travel is possible. Fortunately, Sunday is the quietest night of the week for hotels, so there is little excuse not to, but I don't doubt they will use such an excuse.

Would that be the case even if I knew the onward journey can't be completed? E.g. if I get on a train now to Warrinton, knowing there is no onward travel, do they still have to provide this?

Bletchleyite · 9 Feb 2020

kiancross said:
Would that be the case even if I knew the onward journey can't be completed? E.g. if I get on a train now to Warrinton, knowing there is no onward travel, do they still have to provide this?

I don't see why not, as it's quite possible you might be travelling home from somewhere you don't have accommodation available. Clearly if already at your home station nobody is going to be asking for hotels.

JBuchananGB · 9 Feb 2020

You might get as far as Preston. I suppose then you may have to see what arrangements are in place for accommodation.

kiancross · 9 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
I don't see why not, as it's quite possible you might be travelling home from somewhere you don't have accommodation available. Clearly if already at your home station nobody is going to be asking for hotels.

JBuchananGB said:
You might get as far as Preston. I suppose then you may have to see what arrangements are in place for accommodation.

Avanti telling me I can travel tomorrow AFTER 12:00. Both of you saying if I travel today (at the time on my tickets) and make it as far as possible, they will have to provide accommodation if I can't get to my destination. So my questions is: why impose the after 12 rule if it means passengers can just travel at the time on their ticket and they'll have to provide accommodation for those passengers (probs expensive).

Bletchleyite · 9 Feb 2020

kiancross said:
Avanti telling me I can travel tomorrow AFTER 12:00. Both of you saying if I travel today (at the time on my tickets) and make it as far as possible, they will have to provide accommodation if I can't get to my destination. So my questions is: why impose the after 12 rule if it means passengers can just travel at the time on their ticket and they'll have to provide accommodation for those passengers (probs expensive).

Goodness knows.

Hadders · 9 Feb 2020

I wouldn’t bank on getting hotel accommodation, although officially you’re entitled to it.

Is the storm forecast to continue into tomorrow morning? If so this might explain the 12 noon restriction although it does seem a little farcical.

Bletchleyite · 9 Feb 2020

Hadders said:
I wouldn’t bank on getting hotel accommodation, although officially you’re entitled to it.

Is the storm forecast to continue into tomorrow morning? If so this might explain the 12 noon restriction although it does seem a little farcical.

Depending where you are it may last 3 days or more. The Lakes are going to be hit hard - I reckon far worse than 2016.

kiancross · 9 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Depending where you are it may last 3 days or more. The Lakes are going to be hit hard - I reckon far worse than 2016.

You reckon they'll be trains running past Preston tomorrow? How long has it taken for trains to begin running again in the past?

Bletchleyite · 9 Feb 2020

kiancross said:
You reckon they'll be trains running past Preston tomorrow?

Depends on the weather.

How long has it taken for trains to begin running again in the past?

Anywhere between the next day and about 6 months, it depends what gets damaged. Though if disruption is to last more than a day I'd expect RRBs.

kiancross · 9 Feb 2020

Why are they allowed to enforce the after 12:00 rule? I thought I was entitled to catch the next service if a train was cancelled?

gray1404 · 10 Feb 2020

They cannot enforce the after 12 rule I don't think. The conditions of travel allow you to travel on the next available train in the event of disruption. That said, the Off Peak ticket might be valid on day two anyway following a break of journey on day one so it could be that your ticket as far as Oxenhlome will be valid earlier. We'd need to know exactly what tickets you hold.

If I was in your position I would personally travel at a time that suited me tomorrow. If anyone says anything, which they might not, I would stand my ground that I wasn't able to complete my journey the previous day. If they then insisted on charging you anything I would get off the train at the next station and refuse to pay. I stress that is what I would do personally as I feel able to do that and I am not giving that out as advise here. You might find that on the ground the train crews, who will know how disruptive it has been today, may be more accommodating and understanding.

I am sorry but in the event of disruption customers are entitled to use the next available service and it is wrong that AWC are trying to deprive passengers of this right. Be sure to claim delay repay too. Which in this case will be 100% of the value of the entire combination of tickets held.

Harpers Tate · 10 Feb 2020

I'd imagine the primary reason for the 12 o'clock "ruling" here is entirely sensible - in that (as of yesterday, and stll, it seems, today) it was very uncertain what services if any) would run early this morning. Hence it is eminently sensible to discourage the throngs of Sunday passengers turning up again on Monday morning only to find cancellations and dealys still happening.

yorkie · 10 Feb 2020

No, they could not have enforced it; any charges would have been unlawful and refundable in my opinion.

However it's a moot point as they have abandoned it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AvantiWestCoast/status/1226524751289606145

The restrictions have now been relaxed, you can travel before 1200 if you wish, but if you can avoid it, I would. Services will be extremely busy! ^RG

causton · 10 Feb 2020

Avanti's morning staff update:

"Please note customers who decided not to travel yesterday, their tickets will be valid for travel anytime today."

So as @Harpers Tate said, I think it is purely so everyone doesn't all turn up either during the morning peak, when the trains will be rammed, or while the service is still disrupted heavily. But if you do turn up, you ~~won't~~(shouldn't!) be actually stopped from travelling.

gray1404 · 10 Feb 2020

I wonder if they wanted to keep their morning services quiet while they continue to charge a handful of customers excessive Anytime priced tickets while loads of seats go empty. It's not acceptable.

They could have clearly communicated that customers tickets will be valid any time on Monday but that they advise travelling 12 midday onward's as morning services could still be severely delayed.

Today's Avanti tickets valid after 12:00 tomorrow, due to cancellation today - can I travel earlier?

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