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Weather Disruption caused by storm Ciara (February 9th, 10th and 11th)

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infobleep

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I use to read Network Rail saying their were trampolines on the railway tracks but I was always slightly disappointed that we never got to see a photo.

Well today I have finally got to see such a photo on the BBC News Web Site.
Flyaway trampolines caused rail chaos when Storm Ciara blew them on to tracks across England.

All services were stopped between Bedford and Luton after a trampoline struck a train and reportedly became stuck in overhead wires.

Trains into London were delayed when trampolines flew on to lines at Bickley and Chelsfield.
Picture and full report at:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51436805
 
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LowLevel

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LNER are correct by the way

Are they? I've been a train guard for a few years now and I've always been told that in the event of a total collapse of the train service any ticket should be passed and the customer shouldn't be penalised, IE CSL2 (customer service level 2, a relaxation of ticket restrictions and theoretical ramp up of customer service staff availability, on call managers to attend etc) which I think pretty much every operator has declared today.

My control has sent out messages to that effect today reinforcing to guards/revenue protection inspectors that passengers from other train operators that declared CSL2 should not be charged due to the circumstances involved.

I very much dislike the seeming LNER approach which I assume was an attempt to manage numbers but appears to have backfired if the train was quiet enough to go down charging fares.

My ticket machine stayed firmly in my back cab today as I concentrated on trying to redirect disrupted passengers regardless of which ticket they held.
 

Saint66

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Know the location very well - (we must be relatively close residents then ?) , it just illustrates the trouble NR has with unwelcome incursions like this. Absolute pain for everyone.
Yes we must both be pretty local!

I imagine it will be an intrusion dealt with in the next couple of hours now that the winds are dying down and that TL services have been largely using the up and down slows.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Yes we must both be pretty local!

I imagine it will be an intrusion dealt with in the next couple of hours now that the winds are dying down and that TL services have been largely using the up and down slows.


The worst that can happen is a BTET for the down fast in the morning peak. Trouble is that while shifting that tree is one thing , the issue will be getting qualified OLE staff out overnight , who from general accounts have had a torrid day to say the very least all round.

Even the much reduced Bedford - St Pancras EMR / GTR trains have had more than a few moments today.
 

3141

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I daresay most of the people travelling between Cambridge and London today didn't look like essential journeys.

Let’s think about this advice not to travel unless your journey is essential. What exactly does it mean? It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be travelling because your life will be in danger, because the trains wouldn’t be running if that was the case. I think it means that if you do travel, your journey may take a lot longer than usual, the train operating companies cannot guarantee to get you where you want to go to, and they can’t guarantee to get you back home again, so if you travel you accept those risks and shouldn’t complain if you get stuck in the middle of where you’d rather not be.

People will have a different view of what’s essential. Somebody I overheard at Reading today, who was told by a member of staff that people had been advised not to travel unless it was essential, said “But it is essential. I have a plane to catch.” I don’t know if he’d allowed more time than usual or how much more. In the circumstances perhaps he should have set out yesterday and stayed somewhere overnight. Perhaps that wasn’t practical. But the weather takes precedence. Even if your journey is really important, travelling in these circumstances is going to be highly uncertain and you may not get there.

My own journey definitely wasn’t essential. I was booked to go on a Hidden London tour starting at 13.00. I caught a train at 09.52 for a journey that should have taken just over an hour to Paddington, plus about 25 minutes to Charing Cross. At 11.40 at Reading, with no trains to Paddington in prospect, I knew I wasn’t going to make it and came home. I don’t regret setting out. I hope I’ll get a refund for the tour I wasn’t able to take. Maybe if I’d got to London I might still be waiting to get back. But if trains are running I think it is reasonable, and not foolish or immoral, to weigh up the situation and reach your own decision about whether to travel or not, with the possibility that if it doesn’t work out you may have to sort out the consequences for yourself.

In the past I’ve undertaken various journeys in difficult circumstances. Some were successful and others weren’t. The most memorable was a journey in Zambia that took seventeen hours over 540 miles instead of the normal six hours for 280 miles, and included my only visit to Mulobezi.
 

Bletchleyite

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My ticket machine stayed firmly in my back cab today as I concentrated on trying to redirect disrupted passengers regardless of which ticket they held.

Well done, this is precisely how it should happen. Any ticket from point A to point B should be accepted on any even vaguely reasonable route between A and B to get people home.

Before deciding to give up, I was for instance considering Lancaster-Leeds-Manchester-MKC, and would have been very disappointed had any attempts to charge been made.
 

The Prisoner

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Avanti really are awful. I know they have had a lot to deal with today and told people not to travel, but they tried to get away with forcing all of today's customers til after noon tomorrow and only caved in when the torrent of unhappy customers clearly broke the dam (no pun intended with the weather).

Someone will leap down my throat at this point and point out all the logistical reasons for that decision and that at least they have changed it, but you'd have to be brain dead to at Avanti HQ not to think that at least *some* of the customers travelling today might have needed to be at work. school, college, etc in the morning so why try it on?

Somebody somewhere has gone online and bought a (very expensive) ticket for tomorrow's peak because of that original message. Sure, many folk would just get on the train and argue (no doubt most would have got away with it too had HQ not changed the message), but many other honest folk would have been in fear of losing a job and would have had no alternative but to pay out, only see the message change and now have to fight and/or pay admin charges to get refunds.

Avanti's twitter feed is full of people who bought through third party sites (Trainline etc) who have been charged admin fees to refund tickets today because they didn't know to phone (where apparently there is no admin fee?!) and canceled unusable tickets online.

Really poor from the railway today. Yes they are coping with terrible weather conditions, but if they could tell customers on Saturday not to travel they could do a proper job of planning for the fallout.
 

Starmill

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Someone will leap down my throat at this point and point out all the logistical reasons for that decision and that at least they have changed it, but you'd have to be brain dead to at Avanti HQ not to think that at least *some* of the customers travelling today might have needed to be at work. school, college, etc in the morning so why try it on?
Because it is more convenient for them, and they are not a company with a culture of customer focus? It's not really a mystery I'm afraid. Sadly they have not improved on Virgin Trains' poor outlook for consumer rights.
 

Megafuss

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Why, as this is counter to the provisions of the NRCoT and RDG's guidance?

Ah yes

28.2. Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your
Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably
can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if
necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you.

I think LNER could argue with some justification that it's unreasonable to carry TPE, Avanti, XC, HT and GC passengers when they're hardly running any trains to carry the normal LNER passengers in the first place
 

Megafuss

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By charging those who need to travel earlier hundreds of pounds. Yes, that seems reasonable, doesn't it? First come first served would be fairer.
Every TOC warned against travelleing and advised what ticket acceptance was in place. I may not like it , but it's where we are
 

Komma

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What a surprise! Welcome to every day in a frontline railway role. As soon as the words "but the train line says..." come out then I know I'm going to have a frustrating conversation.

As a guard on LNWR ,I second that emotion. The amount of punters that treat Train Line as the bible, does my head in.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think LNER could argue with some justification that it's unreasonable to carry TPE, Avanti, XC, HT and GC passengers when they're hardly running any trains to carry the normal LNER passengers in the first place

They do seem to be arguing that, but "reasonably can" is different from "reasonably want to".
 

Saint66

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The worst that can happen is a BTET for the down fast in the morning peak. Trouble is that while shifting that tree is one thing , the issue will be getting qualified OLE staff out overnight , who from general accounts have had a torrid day to say the very least all round.

Even the much reduced Bedford - St Pancras EMR / GTR trains have had more than a few moments today.

I believe GTR are planning on running a full service tomorrow so will be hoping that NR can resolve the issue...
 

LowLevel

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Ah yes

28.2. Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your
Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably
can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if
necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you.

I think LNER could argue with some justification that it's unreasonable to carry TPE, Avanti, XC, HT and GC passengers when they're hardly running any trains to carry the normal LNER passengers in the first place

By all means suggest you'll prioritise your own passengers or indeed actually have boarding controls if you want but if the guard can get down gripping it's very poor indeed to be taking money off people. That doesn't help LNER's stranded passengers, it takes the mick out of people who have used space available to get from a to b.
 

Bald Rick

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The worst that can happen is a BTET for the down fast in the morning peak. Trouble is that while shifting that tree is one thing , the issue will be getting qualified OLE staff out overnight , who from general accounts have had a torrid day to say the very least all round.

Even the much reduced Bedford - St Pancras EMR / GTR trains have had more than a few moments today.

Everyone’s on tonight. Can’t see that tree being a problem.

The issue generally is going to be that working at height is verboten at these wind speeds.
 

jon0844

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The highway authorities have a convenient scapegoat in climate change.

A road floods locally and they claim it is due to climate change and we should start getting used to it. Nothing else they can do....

Especially not the possibility of reinstating the quarterly cleansing of every road gully to remove the silt and stop it blocking up pipes and catchpits. Not to mention the more frequent cleansing of gullys in locations where there is a known regular flooding problem.

The same goes for trees. Once upon a time there was regular inspection of all highway trees to make sure they are safe, along with swift action against anyone with a tree near to a highway which looks sick, or has branches hanging down at double deck bus height. Now we wait for them to fall over or get hit by high vehicles.

All of which reduces resilience when bad weather arrives. Like today.

Herts County Council do nothing about fixing the numerous locations that flood whenever it rains (and can take DAYS to clear) but every couple of years they do a blitz on bushes and trees so direction and speed limit signs can remain visible again, for a few months, before being hidden again. They apparently have no fixed schedule to clear drains anymore, and have a history of taking multiple attempts to clear even one problem area - by simply not doing the job properly. In one road near me, they made the problem worse to the point the road had to be closed during rain.

There's a section of road on the A414 between Hatfield and Hertford that has completely fallen to bits, with some 20-25 pot holes developing, and a huge flood on the roundabout. It was like that since before Christmas and highways has said none of the holes are deep enough to warrant an emergency repair.

You know what's worse? They now rely almost solely on the public reporting problems as they don't even seem to carry out routine inspections anymore. (This does make it vital that people DO report issues and don't just rant online!).

Frankly, using roads today unless the journey was essential would have been equally silly as expecting trains to run fine. To think that putting people from trains onto the roads is a good idea is even more silly.
 
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Starmill

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I think LNER could argue with some justification that it's unreasonable to carry TPE, Avanti, XC, HT and GC passengers when they're hardly running any trains to carry the normal LNER passengers in the first place
I don't. That's what they've signed up to do by issuing tickets. The companies should divide up the bills for hotels between one another, and ensure nobody is left waiting in the cold.
 

DimTim

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Kilsby Tunnel - I was aboard the 10:49 Euston - Birmingham & we proceeded through the tunnel at walking pace. A further pendolino was awaiting us emerging the tunnel at the north end before proceeding. We were advised by the Train Manager that arcing had been reported in the tunnel.
On arrival at New St. I was looking for the revised 14:30 to Leeds but this had been cancelled but then re-instated just before proposed departure time - a driver was requested on the tannoy to attend!
The EMR site was advising the Sheffield - Chesterfield line closed - flooding however as we entered Derby & moved across the throat to the east a reversal saw us diverted via Toton to Clay Cross then through Dronfield to Sheffield. It was Chesterfield - Derby flooded.

I was booked on the 14:00 from Euston but was able to start out earlier & was home before my original plan.

Thank you TOC staff for getting me home safely in such atrocious weather!
 

Wolfie

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Avanti really are awful. I know they have had a lot to deal with today and told people not to travel, but they tried to get away with forcing all of today's customers til after noon tomorrow and only caved in when the torrent of unhappy customers clearly broke the dam (no pun intended with the weather).

Someone will leap down my throat at this point and point out all the logistical reasons for that decision and that at least they have changed it, but you'd have to be brain dead to at Avanti HQ not to think that at least *some* of the customers travelling today might have needed to be at work. school, college, etc in the morning so why try it on?

Somebody somewhere has gone online and bought a (very expensive) ticket for tomorrow's peak because of that original message. Sure, many folk would just get on the train and argue (no doubt most would have got away with it too had HQ not changed the message), but many other honest folk would have been in fear of losing a job and would have had no alternative but to pay out, only see the message change and now have to fight and/or pay admin charges to get refunds.

Avanti's twitter feed is full of people who bought through third party sites (Trainline etc) who have been charged admin fees to refund tickets today because they didn't know to phone (where apparently there is no admin fee?!) and canceled unusable tickets online.

Really poor from the railway today. Yes they are coping with terrible weather conditions, but if they could tell customers on Saturday not to travel they could do a proper job of planning for the fallout.
Virgin had their faults but this shower are completely and utterly inept, incompetent and venial. I sincerely hope that anyone who has incurred extra cost goes straight to MCOL, gets their MP involved and generally makes Avanti's arrogant senior managers working lives utter hell for the next few weeks. Any grief they get is wholly deserved and utterly merited by their actions.
 

Horizon22

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By charging those who need to travel earlier hundreds of pounds. Yes, that seems reasonable, doesn't it? First come first served would be fairer.

How does "first come first served" work when all the people with season tickets turn up tomorrow morning?
 

dk1

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Virgin had their faults but this shower are completely and utterly inept, incompetent and venial. I sincerely hope that anyone who has incurred extra cost goes straight to MCOL, gets their MP involved and generally makes their senior manager's working lives utter hell for the next few weeks.
On the railway it's not permitted to make any staff members life uncomfortable whether they be senior or otherwise. Hell is rather a strong term to use.
 

yorkie

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Avanti really are awful. I know they have had a lot to deal with today and told people not to travel, but they tried to get away with forcing all of today's customers til after noon tomorrow and only caved in when the torrent of unhappy customers clearly broke the dam (no pun intended with the weather).

Someone will leap down my throat at this point and point out all the logistical reasons for that decision and that at least they have changed it, but you'd have to be brain dead to at Avanti HQ not to think that at least *some* of the customers travelling today might have needed to be at work. school, college, etc in the morning so why try it on?

Somebody somewhere has gone online and bought a (very expensive) ticket for tomorrow's peak because of that original message. Sure, many folk would just get on the train and argue (no doubt most would have got away with it too had HQ not changed the message), but many other honest folk would have been in fear of losing a job and would have had no alternative but to pay out, only see the message change and now have to fight and/or pay admin charges to get refunds.

Avanti's twitter feed is full of people who bought through third party sites (Trainline etc) who have been charged admin fees to refund tickets today because they didn't know to phone (where apparently there is no admin fee?!) and canceled unusable tickets online.

Really poor from the railway today. Yes they are coping with terrible weather conditions, but if they could tell customers on Saturday not to travel they could do a proper job of planning for the fallout.
LNER are allowing travel at any time tomorrow

XC are only allowing travel after 0930 https://twitter.com/CrossCountryUK/status/1226596448910876674

Travelling on Monday 10 February? We are expecting to run a full service at normal timetable from start of the day tomorrow. Tickets dated 9 February will be accepted on our services after 09:30am.
Imagine being at York wanting to get to somewhere like Birmingham, and having to let the 0844 7 car HST to Plymouth go, which always has loads of empty seats, and then potentially being denied boarding onto the 4 car 0937 towards Reading, which rarely has any spare seats on a good day, and will be full & standing tomorrow!

Someone needs to do something about rogue train companies, many of whom choose to mistreat passengers in slightly different ways.
 

jon0844

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It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be travelling because your life will be in danger, because the trains wouldn’t be running if that was the case.

You say that but there was a possible risk to life caused by falling objects, so while that isn't going to keep everyone locked up indoors (only to find their roof gets torn off, or a tree falls on their house), staying home was probably a good idea as going out DID put everyone in some level of danger from falling objects/debris or simply being caught up in someone else's accident or careless driving etc.

I'd suggest shopping wasn't that essential, but plenty of people seemed to consider that essential (still, I find food shopping on a Sunday to be a risk to life, as my blood pressure goes off the scale!).
 

Wolfie

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On the railway it's not permitted to make any staff members life uncomfortable whether they be senior or otherwise. Hell is rather a strong term to use.
You misunderstand me. Passengers who are messed around can take whatever action in response that they wish to. That does not have to be limited to the rail industry's pathetic internal processes set up by TOCs to serve their ends. There are lots of things outside the TOC's control which can and should be done. If that makes life extremely uncomfortable for the arrogant managers who tried some of the stunts detailed then that is exactly the desired outcome. Going forward that should happen every time until things change or those managers seek alternative employment. If the rail industry doesn't like that too damn bad!
 
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