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Weather Disruption caused by storm Ciara (February 9th, 10th and 11th)

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jon0844

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As a guard on LNWR ,I second that emotion. The amount of punters that treat Train Line as the bible, does my head in.

Plus people who have a problem with the trainline need to moan at trainline. That's where they have their contract.

The industry said people could get refunds at no cost, or travel on other trains (even the next day). If the trainline has got greedy, or just messed up (same end result) then it's surely just another reason not to be a sheep and give them money.
 
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jon0844

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On the railway it's not permitted to make any staff members life uncomfortable whether they be senior or otherwise. Hell is rather a strong term to use.

Wolfie must work in a rather toxic environment where this sort of thing is accepted and the norm. Maybe Wolfie should seek alternative employment after being informed that it isn't acceptable or the norm in the workplace.
 

jon0844

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2V42 undertook a controlled evacuation at Potters Bar due to a tree on the OLE, 50m walk down the ballast in this weather in full kit wouldn’t be fun, let alone in normal shoes etc.
DP69WZJ_d.jpg

One of the 15 people filmed it and posted on Twitter, seemingly finding it quite an adventure (while also saying that it is why we need conductors on trains). It's lucky that the people were all able to get down and walk without assistance.
 

yorkie

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LNER are correct by the way
No they aren't; they can't ignore the Conditions of Travel.
I think LNER could argue with some justification that it's unreasonable to carry TPE, Avanti, XC, HT and GC passengers when they're hardly running any trains to carry the normal LNER passengers in the first place
Nope; they should not discriminate on that basis.

The Approved Code of Practice-Provision of Customer Information document states:
During disruptive incidents customers should not be discriminated against on the basis of operator.
 
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miami

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Herts County Council do nothing

The Conservatives were returned with an increase of councillors and an 8.1% increase in vote share in 2017, so clearly people in Herts think the council is going a good job.
 

Wolfie

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Wolfie must work in a rather toxic environment where this sort of thing is accepted and the norm. Maybe Wolfie should seek alternative employment after being informed that it isn't acceptable or the norm in the workplace.
It is not the norm where l work. On the other hand where l work does not set out to screw it's customers either. If it did they would have a perfect right to respond in kind. I am assuming that you either didn't see or ignored my clarifying post.
For the record l believe that Avanti's managers deserve the same level of respect from their customers that they show those customers. Their performance thus far suggests that is tending to zero. If their actions cause me grief l will pay it back to them ten-fold.
 

fishquinn

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Me,myself and I.
And when traincrew are wrong, as is unfortunately often the case? Should the passenger just accept it as gospel and possibly pay extra despite already holding a valid ticket?
 

jon0844

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It is not the norm where l work. On the other hand where l work does not set out to screw it's customers either.

I am sure you have evidence to back up the claim that Avanti were deliberately out to screw customers. Today seems to have been incredibly challenging for both the railway and also the roads.
 

gazzaa2

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In terms of Avanti and travel tomorrow with today's ticket, they should have just advised passengers not to travel in the morning or during the peaks (services will be very busy etc) but accept that people need to travel for work.
 

dk1

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Wolfie must work in a rather toxic environment where this sort of thing is accepted and the norm. Maybe Wolfie should seek alternative employment after being informed that it isn't acceptable or the norm in the workplace.
Just what I was thinking. How anybody chooses to work in such a threatening environment eludes me.
 

Wolfie

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In terms of Avanti and travel tomorrow with today's ticket, they should have just advised passengers not to travel in the morning or during the peaks (services will be very busy etc) but accept that people need to travel for work.
Exactly
 

Hadders

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Operationally the railway has done a decent job today in some very testing conditions.
The behaviour of LNER, Avanti and XC regarding ticket acceptance is disgraceful.

To be fair LNER are running fewer trains but they also advised their own customers to only travel if absolutely necessary so a many would have heeded this advice and not travelled. This would have given them some capacity to accommodate other ticket holders. I was at Kings Cross this afternoon and didn't observe any over crowded trains leaving (there might have been some but I didn't see any).

Avanti just don't get it. Why say that passengers who took their advice not to travel today and delayed their journeys until tomorrow have to wait until after 12 noon? This is the sort of behaviour one expects from Northern, not a company operating the premier inter-city franchise.
 

theironroad

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Virgin had their faults but this shower are completely and utterly inept, incompetent and venial. I sincerely hope that anyone who has incurred extra cost goes straight to MCOL, gets their MP involved and generally makes Avanti's arrogant senior managers working lives utter hell for the next few weeks. Any grief they get is wholly deserved and utterly merited by their actions.

You misunderstand me. PooThat does not have to be limited to the rail industry's pathetic internal processes set up by TOCs to serve their ends. There are lots of things outside the TOC's control which can and should be done. If that makes life extremely uncomfortable for the arrogant managers who tried some of the stunts detailed then that is exactly the desired outcome. Going forward that should happen every time until things change or those managers seek alternative employment. If the rail industry doesn't like that too damn bad!

Some very inflammatory language there.

Whatever you or I may think about senior managers of any TOC , people have a responsibility to use language moderately.

Using sentences like: "Passengers who are messed around can take whatever action in response that they wish to." is utterly irresponsible.
 

Wolfie

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Some very inflammatory language there.

Whatever you or I may think about senior managers of any TOC , people have a responsibility to use language moderately.

Using sentences like: "Passengers who are messed around can take whatever action in response that they wish to." is utterly irresponsible.
In isolation the sentence which you quote does sound excessive. To be clear l would never advocate violence or similar if that is what you are implying. My initial post made it clear l was talking about Court action, MP involvement etc.
 

SuperNova

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Virgin had their faults but this shower are completely and utterly inept, incompetent and venial. I sincerely hope that anyone who has incurred extra cost goes straight to MCOL, gets their MP involved and generally makes Avanti's arrogant senior managers working lives utter hell for the next few weeks. Any grief they get is wholly deserved and utterly merited by their actions.

There is no difference between those working at Avanti now than when they were Virgin employees two months ago. It's the same staff.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Weather forecasts are, to be fair "more accurate than a horoscope". They aren't always correct. Those who learn to read the synoptic chart generally have a better idea of the general picture without getting bogged down in the exact time it is going to rain.

Perhaps I was inaccurate in comparing a weather forecast to a horoscope but the fact remains that a weather forecast is just a prediction and they can get it wrong !

Storm Ciara may have lived up to its promise in certain parts of the country but here in South Yorkshire I've completely ignored the advice not to travel unless necessary and had a trip into Sheffield and back from Barnsley and experienced no disruption whatsoever.

How sad that we've become such a risk-averse society in which the perceived disruption is far worse than the actual disruption!
 

jon0844

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How sad that we've become such a risk-averse society in which the perceived disruption is far worse than the actual disruption!

The UK is quite large. I suspect that you having an uneventful trip isn't proof that everything today was fine. You saw the log from SWT earlier on how many trees it had to deal with? What about all the other TOCs, the people evacuated from trains and so on?
 

bramling

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Perhaps I was inaccurate in comparing a weather forecast to a horoscope but the fact remains that a weather forecast is just a prediction and they can get it wrong !

Storm Ciara may have lived up to its promise in certain parts of the country but here in South Yorkshire I've completely ignored the advice not to travel unless necessary and had a trip into Sheffield and back from Barnsley and experienced no disruption whatsoever.

How sad that we've become such a risk-averse society in which the perceived disruption is far worse than the actual disruption!

Would you be saying that if you were

1) a train driver travelling at speed with the emergency brake applied and a tree across the line in front of you?

or

2) in your car up to your neck in flood water?

Today’s arrangements seem to have kept people safe. Remember the similar storm a few years ago when we turned on the TV to a headline with the tragic news at least one person had died (crushed in their car IIRC).

There was a wise post elsewhere on this thread - sometimes, very occasionally, nature stops us doing the things we’d ideally like to do. It really isn’t the end of the world.
 

R G NOW.

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Winds eased and rain has now stopped where I am. Did not seem very strong here and the only things that got blown were two empty wheelie bins up the road.
 

bramling

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Winds eased and rain has now stopped where I am. Did not seem very strong here and the only things that got blown were two empty wheelie bins up the road.

Certainly died down in London, although still strong enough to be notable.

I’ll be spending the next day cleaning twigs out of my gutters no doubt, but by the look of things no damage done. I’m sure that’s most people’s prime concern, not whether they missed a shopping expedition...
 

Starmill

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I think it is completely clear that CrossCountry are obliged to carry passengers on the first service that runs tomorrow if they were unable to make their journey today because CrossCountry weren't running suitable services to allow them to complete their journey.

It doesn't surprise me that a company like theirs tries to cause this kind of problem for their customers, though. They might think it's inconvenient to them to allow people to take the first train (or the second train, if the first is too busy to board), but that's tough.
 

M60lad

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Looks like no direct XC between Manchester-Birmingham New St all day tomorrow trains only running upto Birmingham New Street and no further North due to an unstable railway embankment somewhere between Wolverhampton and Stafford, their adising passengers to travel via Tamworth where trains will be making additional stops there to change onto LNWR services from Tamworth to Stoke-On-Trent, so looks like Avanti Trains will be taking up the slack passenger wise from Stoke-Manchester.
 

Starmill

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The Conservatives were returned with an increase of councillors and an 8.1% increase in vote share in 2017, so clearly people in Herts think the council is going a good job.
That's pretty much complete rubbish. It means nothing of the sort.

It merely means that they thought that the alternatives would be worse.

At the 2017 election to Hertfordshire County Council (is this the authority responsible or another one?), the Conservative party only won 46% of the votes cast, so you could easily argue that a slim majority thought that a different vision for how the council should be run would be better.
 

R G NOW.

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Certainly died down in London, although still strong enough to be notable.

I’ll be spending the next day cleaning twigs out of my gutters no doubt, but by the look of things no damage done. I’m sure that’s most people’s prime concern, not whether they missed a shopping expedition...
I think I must of had my head screwed on and did my shopping yesterday as I have a motor cycle and that would of not been safe.
 

theironroad

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In isolation the sentence which you quote does sound excessive. To be clear l would never advocate violence or similar if that is what you are implying. My initial post made it clear l was talking about Court action, MP involvement etc.

I'm pleased for your clarification.

Unfortunately, there is a small minority of people travelling on trains who do believe that violence, often serious violence causing life changing physical and mental harm is warranted.

Railway staff at all levels appreciate the inconvenice that operational disruption causes, but that never condones the use of verbal or physical violence that some people seem to think is appropriate.
 

theironroad

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Certainly died down in London, although still strong enough to be notable.

I’ll be spending the next day cleaning twigs out of my gutters no doubt, but by the look of things no damage done. I’m sure that’s most people’s prime concern, not whether they missed a shopping expedition...

Looks like my day off is going to be occupied by sorting out fence panels that have blown out on either side of my back garden. :( :(
 

Starmill

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If that makes life extremely uncomfortable for the arrogant managers who tried some of the stunts detailed then that is exactly the desired outcome. Going forward that should happen every time until things change or those managers seek alternative employment. If the rail industry doesn't like that too damn bad!
I'm interested in how uncomfortable you really think they will be, though? They probably aren't fussed, for example, that their company is occasionally on the receiving end of a County Court Judgement for a couple of hundred quid? These will almost certainly just be paid rapidly once they're seen by the legal team and the cost put down to just 'the cost of doing business'? Customers who don't get so far can be ignored with impunity. The company can ignore the Rail Ombudsman too, or waive them away with platitudes, safe in the knowledge that the probability of an Adjudication from them that creates a bill for the company is slim. If you try to claim for large damages of £10,000, say, there's a pretty hefty court fee to pay up front (£410) and you might not win that case if they actually attend a hearing, and it wouldn't necessarily be easy to evidence such large losses. A Judgement for that amount would probably cause minor embarrassment but in the grand scheme of things would be moved on from pretty quickly for a company this size.

What else have you got up your sleeve?
 

Mk81

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I'm a little miffed why they were still selling tickets for trains they knew that would be cancelled. Then expecting customers to either fight for a space on the few modified services running or to claim a refund or travel at a later date. As far as LNER they updated their advice today from an advisory to a firm "DO NOT TRAVEL" when they realised people wasn't taking the hint.

I travelled today. I should have known better so I can't gripe. But what did surprise me is the lack of control the staff had at some stations (Doncaster where I got on is 1) where there was no attempt at limiting the amount of people trying to board already packed services & which practically caused severe overcrowding. In regards to LNER (amongst other) not accepting other ops tickets... wouldn't that have just made the overcrowding of services worse?
 
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