Trivia: trains which divide into more than two sections

py_megapixel · 9 Feb 2020

Are there any examples of trains in the UK or elsewhere dividing more than once, or into several sections?

I'll include past services as well.

All I can think of is the Caledonian Sleeper, but surely there must be more?

RailUK Forums

StephenHunter · 9 Feb 2020

Atlantic Coast Express under the Southern Railway and BR(S).

TheSel · 9 Feb 2020

Current or historic? If historic, there were hundreds if not thousands, where through carriages were added / removed to form longer / shorter trains and thus to serve additional origin / destination stations. Not to mention slip coaches!

Iskra · 9 Feb 2020

Don’t some services on the West Highland line?

6 carriages leave Glasgow Queen Street, 2 go to Oban, 2 to Fort William, 2 to Mallaig isn’t it?

London Trains · 9 Feb 2020

Until May 2018, there was a Southern service in the evening peak from London Bridge to Horsham, Reigate and Tonbridge, dividing at Redhill.

swt_passenger · 9 Feb 2020

I think Salisbury had a down direction three way split until fairly recently, Exeter, Bristol and “out of service”. Couldn’t find it on a first look through RTT though...

Kite159 · 9 Feb 2020

swt_passenger said:
I think Salisbury had a down direction three way split until fairly recently, Exeter, Bristol and “out of service”. Couldn’t find it on a first look through RTT though...

I believe it's the 19:20 Waterloo - Exeter is the one you are thinking off

Splits at Salisbury with the rear unit going to Bristol, then splits again at Yeovil Junction with only the front unit going to Exeter
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W16882/2020-02-12/detailed

There was one in a previous timetable which split 3 ways at Salisbury with the rear unit going out of use.

kentuckytony · 10 Feb 2020

TheSel said:
....Not to mention slip coaches!

I was gonna mention these. I thought I had a book about them with quite a few pictures - but I can't find it right now. Very interesting stuff.
Even my one astute railway friend from the UK had no idea what I was talking about.
And I bet H&S would nix those today!

class387 · 10 Feb 2020

Not sure whether I'm imagining this, but I seem to recall that a few years back there was peak time Southern service from London Bridge with a portion each for Tonbridge, Reigate and Horsham.

RichJF · 10 Feb 2020

class387 said:
Not sure whether I'm imagining this, but I seem to recall that a few years back there was peak time Southern service from London Bridge with a portion each for Tonbridge, Reigate and Horsham.

As mentioned above. Yes there was. 17:32 from London Bridge. Used to catch it many times!

Taunton · 10 Feb 2020

TheSel said:
Not to mention slip coaches!

Indeed. The Cornish Riviera used to have FIVE sections. There were slip coaches for Westbury, Taunton and Exeter, and the ones certainly for Westbury and Exeter used to continue as local services to Weymouth and Kingswear respectively. The main train used to detach vehicles at Plymouth, including the restaurant car.

It was long common for WofE services, both from London and the north, to have three sections, dividing at Newton Abbot for the Torbay line, and then leaving the refreshment cars plus a couple of coaches and a van at Plymouth.

swt_passenger · 11 Feb 2020

Kite159 said:
I believe it's the 19:20 Waterloo - Exeter is the one you are thinking off

Splits at Salisbury with the rear unit going to Bristol, then splits again at Yeovil Junction with only the front unit going to Exeter
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W16882/2020-02-12/detailed

There was one in a previous timetable which split 3 ways at Salisbury with the rear unit going out of use.

Yes, it would be your last example I was probably thinking of, in fact I’ve since found a previous discussion of it around 2016, so it might have ended a couple of years ago. Apparently there wa# some issue with station PIS displays, and the back portion was sometimes being advertised as Andover, although it really went to Salisbury anyway...

bengley · 11 Feb 2020

1745 Victoria - Ore & Seaford I believe does, or used to, run as a 12 car and divide at both Lewes and Eastbourne.

Kite159 · 11 Feb 2020

swt_passenger said:
Yes, it would be your last example I was probably thinking of, in fact I’ve since found a previous discussion of it around 2016, so it might have ended a couple of years ago. Apparently there wa# some issue with station PIS displays, and the back portion was sometimes being advertised as Andover, although it really went to Salisbury anyway...

That 19:20 has caused some unusual things on station PIS displays as showing as "Empty to Depot" at Basingstoke & Woking. I don't think the system can cope with multiple splits that well.

(Image showing departure screen at Basingstoke listing the 20:07 service as "Exeter St Davids & Empty to Depot & Bristol Temple Meads")

Nick_C · 11 Feb 2020

There are quite a few on the continent - one example being the PKP IC407 "Chopin", which goes from Warsaw to Krakow, drops 4 coaches there, then continues on to Bohumin where it divides with portions to Prague, Vienna and Budapest.

The Prague portion is then attached to another train with portions from Humenne, Kosice and Poprad-Tatry, which in turn dropped off a portion in Bohumin to go on to Bratislava.

30907 · 11 Feb 2020

Nick_C said:
There are quite a few on the continent - one example being the PKP IC407 "Chopin", which goes from Warsaw to Krakow, drops 4 coaches there, then continues on to Bohumin where it divides with portions to Prague, Vienna and Budapest.

The Prague portion is then attached to another train with portions from Humenne, Kosice and Poprad-Tatry, which in turn dropped off a portion in Bohumin to go on to Bratislava.

And at Bohumin it combines with the Nightjet from Berlin to Vienna/Budapest, which also carries a Berlin-Przemsyl portion which is shunted somewhere in Silesia onto a Polish night train...
Just to be pedantic, the Kosice-Bratislava sleeper is detached at Zilina in SK, sits there half the night, and then attaches to the first fast train of the day towards Bratislava. I've used it (the other way) and was the only passenger AFAIK, with an attendant who wasn't delighted to see me

Mag_seven · 11 Feb 2020

I'm sure a few years ago when the Cardiff Valley lines were a separate franchise that they ran a three (or perhaps more) portion train from three (or more) of the termini on the Cardiff Valleys down to the west country and back on a summer Saturday? I can recall seeing a train made up of at least three class Cardiff Valleys class 150 units joined together at Exeter.

Nick_C · 11 Feb 2020

30907 said:
And at Bohumin it combines with the Nightjet from Berlin to Vienna/Budapest, which also carries a Berlin-Przemsyl portion which is shunted somewhere in Silesia onto a Polish night train...
Just to be pedantic, the Kosice-Bratislava sleeper is detached at Zilina in SK, sits there half the night, and then attaches to the first fast train of the day towards Bratislava. I've used it (the other way) and was the only passenger AFAIK, with an attendant who wasn't delighted to see me

I've not done it in that direction, but have done Prague -> Krakow. If you work out all the various different trains that combine and divide to form that service, it must cover half of Europe - which must be a logistical nightmare to timetable!

30907 · 11 Feb 2020

Nick_C said:
I've not done it in that direction, but have done Prague -> Krakow. If you work out all the various different trains that combine and divide to form that service, it must cover half of Europe - which must be a logistical nightmare to timetable!

This is a particularly spectacular example (though Hummene, Kosice and Poprad are on the same line) - but the group of night trains that reassembles at Salzburg each night is almost as complex, involving:
Munich to Zagreb, Venice and Budapest
Vienna to Venice and Zurich
Budapest and Prague to Zurich (Prague is only a single sleeper, via Linz) - a separate train from the Vienna one.
And there used to be some complex portion working at Hannover in CNL days - including, briefly, a Prague-Copenhagen couchette, effectively going from a "north/east-west/south" group to its opposite number(s).

wimbledonpete · 11 Feb 2020

In DEMU days there was at least one train from Victoria that was front 3 Uckfield, middle 3 Crowborough or Eridge, rear 3 East Grinstead.

jfisher21 · 11 Feb 2020

The 0548 from Forest Hill is advertised on the Passenger Information Screen as a 12 carraige train for Caterham, Tattenham Corner and Purley. However it seems this is a mistake as on the occasions I have caught it, only 8 carriages turn up and there is no portion terminating at Purley.

Andy1673 · 11 Feb 2020

bengley said:
1745 Victoria - Ore & Seaford I believe does, or used to, run as a 12 car and divide at both Lewes and Eastbourne.

It used to be some time ago, now 8 cars to Ore 4 to Seaford.

R G NOW. · 11 Feb 2020

The great Malvern to Weymouth trains used to split or be added at Temple Meads, and often the train attached to the rear before heading back to great Malvern.

MontyP · 12 Feb 2020

Back in BR days there were 3 (?) services per day Liverpool/Manchester to Edinburgh/Glasgow which joined/divided at Preston and Carstairs. Can’t remember which portion went where! Were there any others that both joined and split on the same journey?

Ianno87 · 12 Feb 2020

MontyP said:
Back in BR days there were 3 (?) services per day Liverpool/Manchester to Edinburgh/Glasgow which joined/divided at Preston and Carstairs. Can’t remember which portion went where! Were there any others that both joined and split on the same journey?

I found one the opposite way around. In the 1997 timetable, the 1645 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh (Class 158) dropped a Windermere portion at Bolton (Class 156) and then attached to a portion from Liverpool Lime Street (Class 158) at Preston.

Fleetwood Boy · 12 Feb 2020

The “classic” arrangement (pre anything involving a DMU) was Liverpool- Edinburgh and Manchester- Glasgow running as a combined train between Preston and Carstairs.

I think I’m right in thinking the up Liverpool portion of this was the last scheduled steam journey in 1968?

Because of the way the splitting and joining worked, in the up direction it meant the buffet car was right at the front of the train. At least in the 1980s when I used it.

One thing which now baffles me is how it worked on a Sunday when it diverted via Settle and Kilmarnock because that took so long there was no time for a round trip as happened Monday to Saturday.

swt_passenger · 12 Feb 2020

MontyP said:
Back in BR days there were 3 (?) services per day Liverpool/Manchester to Edinburgh/Glasgow which joined/divided at Preston and Carstairs. Can’t remember which portion went where! Were there any others that both joined and split on the same journey?

SWT ran an up service on Sundays which combined portions from Penzance and Paignton at Exeter and split them at Salisbury for Waterloo and Portsmouth. Finished about 2007 or 2008?

USBT · 14 Feb 2020

jfisher21 said:
The 0548 from Forest Hill is advertised on the Passenger Information Screen as a 12 carraige train for Caterham, Tattenham Corner and Purley. However it seems this is a mistake as on the occasions I have caught it, only 8 carriages turn up and there is no portion terminating at Purley.

It may be a mistake or a misunderstanding (train splits are often not intuitive on the display screens). The Caterham and Tattenham Corner sections split at Purley. Those trains are now usually 10 car splitting into 2x 5 car.

30907 · 14 Feb 2020

MontyP said:
Back in BR days there were 3 (?) services per day Liverpool/Manchester to Edinburgh/Glasgow which joined/divided at Preston and Carstairs. Can’t remember which portion went where! Were there any others that both joined and split on the same journey?

IIRC different trains did different splits, allowing all 4 permutations over the day.

AJP62 · 14 Feb 2020

And there were some that did something like Liverpool - Glasgow and Manchester - Glasgow and Edinburgh so three portions Preston to Carstairs.

Fleetwood Boy said:
One thing which now baffles me is how it worked on a Sunday when it diverted via Settle and Kilmarnock because that took so long there was no time for a round trip as happened Monday to Saturday.

There were probably 2 sets doing morning and evening trips starting at each end so they would just swap over on a Sunday.

Trivia: trains which divide into more than two sections

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