Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

ScotRail158725 · 9 Feb 2020

buslad1988 said:
The zoo vinyls are effectively route branding; many tourists will avoid getting on 12’s/31’s and wait for 26’s for this reason. The 31’s have XLB’s already and 12 is single deck so there is no where for them to be displaced too.

its been said before by others aswell that 466-495 can go on other routes as its just a zoo advert, theres no complaints when others with all over adverts go off route

RailUK Forums

etetetetet · 9 Feb 2020

Colin M said:
Why would they replace the XLBs on the 100 after such a short time? Unless of course, the Airport has implemented an age limit for buses operating on it's premises?

The airport has a two year age limit on it's buses, part of the contract for the 100, hence why the route's had new buses every two years

CM · 9 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
The airport has a two year age limit on it's buses, part of the contract for the 100, hence why the route's had new buses every two years

That's obscene, I didn't realise the age limit was only 2 years. Surely a 5-year limit would make more sense as having to replace a fleet of buses every 2 years can't be cost-effective for Lothian.

scotrail158713 · 9 Feb 2020

GregA said:
I would also suggest the 26 for XLBs as it always seems very busy, but I think some of the corners in Prestonpans would be too tight?

Yep. The corner just west of the Mercat Gait Sports Centre is probably the worst one.

Edirim said:
Xlbs can't do macbeth moir in Musselburgh

That’s what I initially thought but there was mention on here that a few have appeared on the 44 from time to time

SpeedbirdA350 · 9 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
The airport has a two year age limit on it's buses, part of the contract for the 100, hence why the route's had new buses every two years

Every 3 years I think it is but as far as I know, no age limit on Skylink services (given some of the Skylink are 15 reg so coming up for 5 years old now).

90019 · 9 Feb 2020

Edirim said:
Xlbs can't do macbeth moir in Musselburgh

I don't know where you're getting that from, because it's not true.
The XLBs have no more issues with Macbeth Moir than other buses do.

OmniCity999 · 9 Feb 2020

SpeedbirdA350 said:
Every 3 years I think it is but as far as I know, no age limit on Skylink services (given some of the Skylink are 15 reg so coming up for 5 years old now).

100 is contracted and as such the airport can stipulate the age of the vehicles used on it. Currently its 2 years*. It used to be 5.

*in cases of vehicles off the rosd or a surge in demand, older buses are allowed to operate the route.

Skylink operates completely commercially and as such there is no age limit.

It's not an age limit to the airport grounds it's an age limit on contracted services.

ScotRail158725 · 9 Feb 2020

90019 said:
I don't know where you're getting that from, because it's not true.
The XLBs have no more issues with Macbeth Moir than other buses do.

agreed, been said before on here that they can, given it COULD be more difficult than a normal 11 n whatever metre bus but still they can get up it

Auld reekie · 9 Feb 2020

OmniCity999 said:
100 is contracted and as such the airport can stipulate the age of the vehicles used on it. Currently its 2 years*. It used to be 5.

*in cases of vehicles off the rosd or a surge in demand, older buses are allowed to operate the route.

Skylink operates completely commercially and as such there is no age limit.

It's not an age limit to the airport grounds it's an age limit on contracted services.

Any idea what mileage they would do over the 2 years?

etetetetet · 9 Feb 2020

The airport chooses the bus standards and they want new ones every 2 years or so because image I would guess. Skylink has no limit and as mentioned before they're commercialized so it's not an issue

Thinking about it more the 300 would be a good candidate for XLB's, maybe at peak since the usual 17 plate ex airlinks have so many racks the bus tends to be crowded at peak. XLB's would mean they could keep the obscene amount of racks in and still increase seats.

One other question about the XLB's; Can they make their way around the Gyle terminus? I was talking to someone about this and I cannot for the life of me remember how big the circle there is

ScotRail158725 · 9 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
Thinking about it more the 300 would be a good candidate for XLB's, maybe at peak since the usual 17 plate ex airlinks have so many racks the bus tends to be crowded at peak. XLB's would mean they could keep the obscene amount of racks in and still increase seats.

One other question about the XLB's; Can they make their way around the Gyle terminus? I was talking to someone about this and I cannot for the life of me remember how big the circle there is

300 definately has nowhere enough to justify deckers let alone XLBs off peak to allocate them to the service

if reckon XLBs can make their way around however sometimes overcrowding/bad parking can cause standard buses to struggle there so XLBs would encounter some trouble there aswell in that case

SpeedbirdA350 · 9 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
The airport chooses the bus standards and they want new ones every 2 years or so because image I would guess. Skylink has no limit and as mentioned before they're commercialized so it's not an issue

Thinking about it more the 300 would be a good candidate for XLB's, maybe at peak since the usual 17 plate ex airlinks have so many racks the bus tends to be crowded at peak. XLB's would mean they could keep the obscene amount of racks in and still increase seats.

One other question about the XLB's; Can they make their way around the Gyle terminus? I was talking to someone about this and I cannot for the life of me remember how big the circle there is

On testing the B8L, they ran it on every route (that it would ever need to go on) and never had an issue, so they could put it via the gyle and it would be okay. The roundabout at North Bughtlin Neuk is tighter than the Gyle and it fits there okay.

I agree with the 300, however I think the answer is to increase the service from 20 minutes to 15 minutes, and from 30 to 20 on a Sunday instead of the B8L.

TheEastCoaster · 9 Feb 2020

SpeedbirdA350 said:
I agree with the 300, however I think the answer is to increase the service from 20 minutes to 15 minutes, and from 30 to 20 on a Sunday instead of the B8L.

I still personally believe that the 300 should extend itself to the Royal Infirmary, however as stated I’m sure the only way it would happen is if a frequency increase was possible

computerSaysNo · 10 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
Thinking about it more the 300 would be a good candidate for XLB's, maybe at peak since the usual 17 plate ex airlinks have so many racks the bus tends to be crowded at peak. XLB's would mean they could keep the obscene amount of racks in and still increase seats.

SpeedbirdA350 said:
I agree with the 300, however I think the answer is to increase the service from 20 minutes to 15 minutes, and from 30 to 20 on a Sunday instead of the B8L.

TheEastCoaster said:
I still personally believe that the 300 should extend itself to the Royal Infirmary, however as stated I’m sure the only way it would happen is if a frequency increase was possible

Would an XLB fit round the corners in the Old Town (I'm thinking about Lady Lawson Street (corners in/out), Forrest Road/Bristo Place, Marshall Street and Nicolson Square)?

buslad1988 said:
The zoo vinyls are effectively route branding; many tourists will avoid getting on 12’s/31’s and wait for 26’s for this reason. The 31’s have XLB’s already and 12 is single deck so there is no where for them to be displaced too.

Is tourists getting "the zoo bus" part of the reason for the 26 being so crowded? Would it work to transfer the Zoo adverts onto the route 31 buses (as these are XLBs so have more capacity anyway)?

Q_Okolo12 · 10 Feb 2020

buslad1988 said:
Nothing confirmed to staff yet either so wait and see... a lot could change! My reputable source says they aren’t receiving any XLB’s this year.

Also major service changes at the end of March.

Any rough idea what the service changes could entail?

ScotRail158725 · 10 Feb 2020

Q_Okolo12 said:
Any rough idea what the service changes could entail?

major indicates there could be a lot, id assume some could be to accomodate the tram extension but who knows

computerSaysNo · 10 Feb 2020

ScotRail158725 said:
major indicates there could be a lot, id assume some could be to accomodate the tram extension but who knows

What changes were made to the bus routes/times when the current tram line was opened? I've tried looking online for old Lothian maps but I can't seem to find any from that period.

etetetetet · 10 Feb 2020

it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the 6 will be withdrawn because of low usage, that's one major change I can think of

There could be a few route changes to prepare for upcoming tram works, nothing much except rerouting a few buses.

Rumours about Lothian dropping the 61 and letting another operator have it since they don't have any suitable buses to operate it (only really the ex london's at central can, and I can imagine having a double on a barely used route is not very cost effective)

These are the main things I can think of

Darklord8899 · 10 Feb 2020

GregA said:
What changes were made to the bus routes/times when the current tram line was opened? I've tried looking online for old Lothian maps but I can't seem to find any from that period.

One change that springs to mind was the 12 being cut from Ratho back to the Gyle, (the Ratho section then being bolted on to the 20) and a reworking of the X12 timetable (city centre - RBS Gogarburn)

There may have been a reduction to the 22 timetable as well...

Darklord8899 · 10 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the 6 will be withdrawn because of low usage, that's one major change I can think of

There could be a few route changes to prepare for upcoming tram works, nothing much except rerouting a few buses.

Rumours about Lothian dropping the 61 and letting another operator have it since they don't have any suitable buses to operate it (only really the ex london's at central can, and I can imagine having a double on a barely used route is not very cost effective)

These are the main things I can think of

209 is on the 61 today

TheEastCoaster · 10 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the 6 will be withdrawn because of low usage, that's one major change I can think of

There could be a few route changes to prepare for upcoming tram works, nothing much except rerouting a few buses.

Rumours about Lothian dropping the 61 and letting another operator have it since they don't have any suitable buses to operate it (only really the ex london's at central can, and I can imagine having a double on a barely used route is not very cost effective)

These are the main things I can think of

I almost forgot about the 6 being talked about withdrawal, I wonder if another operator will pick up the dumbiedykes/holyrood area?

I’m guessing ECB will also be getting changes in March along with LCB and LB! Perhaps they will bring back the short running X7’s at peak time to Haddington, especially since more and more complaints on folk not getting a seat on the service are coming.

Like I said before I personally would want to see the 300 to the Royal Infirmary and also maybe we could potentially see later journeys on the 106 from Fort Kinnaird, no idea how the 8PM FK to Haddington journey does but I’m guessing it must be doing okay

TheEastCoaster · 10 Feb 2020

As for LCB perhaps they could pick up the contract to service 40 and fix the timetables on the X18/275/287

ScotRail158725 · 10 Feb 2020

TheEastCoaster said:
I almost forgot about the 6 being talked about withdrawal, I wonder if another operator will pick up the dumbiedykes/holyrood area?

Like I said before I personally would want to see the 300 to the Royal Infirmary

i agree with this and also wonder if another operator will pick up dumbiedykes

TheEastCoaster said:
As for LCB perhaps they could pick up the contract to service 40 and fix the timetables on the X18/275/287

275 needs fixed a lot, current route has no real passenger use and the 287 has too short a turn round at both ends, X18 has a good timetable it just needs to stop being inteworked with the X27 at Whitburn

etetetetet · 10 Feb 2020

Snow has made it real chaotic out here, the traffic is horrendous. Saw a 35 had been diverted to Hermiston just before the Longstone roundabout and a clog of 25's was blocking the route further ahead. Seems a lot of services have been curtailed

Auld reekie · 10 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
Snow has made it real chaotic out here, the traffic is horrendous. Saw a 35 had been diverted to Hermiston just before the Longstone roundabout and a clog of 25's was blocking the route further ahead. Seems a lot of services have been curtailed

Lots of buses having to terminate early.
The council couldn’t run a bath.
Not as if the weather was unexpected.

Darklord8899 · 10 Feb 2020

etetetetet said:
Snow has made it real chaotic out here, the traffic is horrendous. Saw a 35 had been diverted to Hermiston just before the Longstone roundabout and a clog of 25's was blocking the route further ahead. Seems a lot of services have been curtailed

.....you sound surprised! :lol:

90019 · 10 Feb 2020

GregA said:
Would an XLB fit round the corners in the Old Town (I'm thinking about Lady Lawson Street (corners in/out), Forrest Road/Bristo Place, Marshall Street and Nicolson Square)?

I don't know about Lady Lawson Street, but I've taken XLBs around the others, and they fit fine.

Honestly, as someone who drives them frequently, there really isn't that much difference between and XLB and a Gemini. There's a bit more tail swing that you've got to keep an eye on, but beyond that they'll both pretty much fit through the same places.

People seem to have got it into their heads that they're these huge monsters which don't fit anywhere, but the reality is that they can go to 99% of the places any other bus can.
The only place I can think of off the top of my head that an XLB won't fit is the left turn at the mini roundabout in Pilton on the 8, and the Geminis only just fit round there.

DunsBus · 10 Feb 2020

90019 said:
I don't know about Lady Lawson Street, but I've taken XLBs around the others, and they fit fine.

Honestly, as someone who drives them frequently, there really isn't that much difference between and XLB and a Gemini. There's a bit more tail swing that you've got to keep an eye on, but beyond that they'll both pretty much fit through the same places.

People seem to have got it into their heads that they're these huge monsters which don't fit anywhere, but the reality is that they can go to 99% of the places any other bus can.
The only place I can think of off the top of my head that an XLB won't fit is the left turn at the mini roundabout in Pilton on the 8, and the Geminis only just fit round there.

The problem with that mini-roundabout is the location of the traffic islands on each approach. Take the islands away and there you have it - problem solved.

90019 · 10 Feb 2020

Exactly that.
It would also be nice if they removed the pointless single piece of fence on the corner.

DunsBus · 10 Feb 2020

90019 said:
Exactly that.
It would also be nice if they removed the pointless single piece of fence on the corner.

Until 1982 that junction was a crossroads, with traffic on Boswall Parkway having priority and traffic islands on the north (Pilton Drive North) and south (Pilton Drive) approaches. The mini-roundabout went in towards the end of that year, along with the traffic islands on Boswall Parkway itself. At that time, Pilton Drive North wasn't served by buses, the nearest bus routes being Boswall Parkway and West Granton Road. This changed in 1986 when Eastern Scottish, and later Lothian sent buses along it, and it has been part of the 8's route since 2000 when the route was altered to cover the eastern part of the old 19/39 circle.

Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member