• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Updated - Sweden: Trafikverket proposes Malmö-Brussels & Stockholm-Hamburg night trains, starting by 2022.8.1

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Indeed, you had two types of Soviet sleepers as a result. Firstly the RIC-types that were cleared for anywhere in Europe and operated to Paris, Ostend, Hook of Holland etc, with just 1st and 2nd class options. Then you had the larger profile three-class Soviet sleepers that ran in the Soviet bloc and to Vienna. Only the former and the Talgo carriages are used by RZD on their sleepers today outside the former USSR, I believe.

Did the larger profile Ukrainian stock make it to Warsaw and Budapest?
 

AlbertBeale

Established Member
Joined
16 Jun 2019
Messages
2,692
Location
London
The old Soviet-style rolling stock, with their loading gauge, can certainly get as far west as Warsaw - at least it used to. Soon after the USSR fragmented, I travelled In the 1990s (when the north-south through line linking the 3 Baltic states still existed; it was subsequently closed down, seemingly as part of the 3 countries' EU-encouraged "modernisation" and switching of public services to commercial ones) on a through train from Tallinn, via Riga and Vilnius, to Warsaw. The rolling stock was ancient Soviet-style sleepers, samovars and all. Not exactly a high-speed journey, but convenient nevertheless, as a way of getting from a conference in Tallinn to visit a friend in Germany (with just the one change in Warsaw, I seem to remember). The Tallinn-Warsaw journey meant leaving the Estonian capital in the morning and reaching Warsaw the next morning. We sat at Vilnius for some time (late afternoon / early evening, I think) while we linked up to another train, from Russia, before heading on through the night. There was of course a lengthy pause for the bogie change, at Grodno in Belarus, in the middle of the night (the through route in those days from Vilnius to Poland went through a little corner of Belarus, and Grodno was the last place of significance before what had been the USSR-Poland border). There are amusing tales to tell of my stand-off with the Belarussian border authorities, during the time at Grodno, over the legal technicalities of my need (or not) for a Belarussian transit visa on that journey - but they're probably outwith the scope of this tread...
 

JonasB

Member
Joined
27 Dec 2016
Messages
921
Location
Sweden
The Danish Transport Minister (social democrat) has said that if Sweden goes ahead with the proposed night train to Köln, Denmark should support it. But any cofinancing would require approval in the parliament and a formal request from Sweden.

Link: https://www.berlingske.dk/politik/transportminister-er-aaben-for-at-springe-paa-europaeisk-nattog (In Danish, but google translate should be able to make a decent translation to english.)

(As someone said on another forum, if the Danes are investing in rail transport you know that things have changed.)
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
I am seeing more and more evidence of people feeling awkward when talking about flying, even when flying is the only practical way to travel long distances. I can see rail capitalising on this.

Driving would too if and when electric cars have the range and charging infrastructure, as even a road trip isn't going to be looked upon favourably if doing so in a big gas guzzler.

It's quite amazing that in such a short space of time, we've gone from disregarding rail as being too slow (and, frankly, too expensive) and now see it as a way of 'doing our bit' to save the planet.

It took a while, but perhaps the low cost airlines have finally got some competition!
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
I am seeing more and more evidence of people feeling awkward when talking about flying, even when flying is the only practical way to travel long distances. I can see rail capitalising on this.

Driving would too if and when electric cars have the range and charging infrastructure, as even a road trip isn't going to be looked upon favourably if doing so in a big gas guzzler.

It's quite amazing that in such a short space of time, we've gone from disregarding rail as being too slow (and, frankly, too expensive) and now see it as a way of 'doing our bit' to save the planet.

It took a while, but perhaps the low cost airlines have finally got some competition!

I think Easyjet have pulled a blinder by quickly arranging to offset all their carbon emissions from passenger flight operations. Of course you can quibble about how they are offsetting, but any person who feels marginally awkward about flying (in Europe!) may feel slightly less so with team orange. I expect some other airlines to follow suit.
 

JonasB

Member
Joined
27 Dec 2016
Messages
921
Location
Sweden
I think Easyjet have pulled a blinder by quickly arranging to offset all their carbon emissions from passenger flight operations. Of course you can quibble about how they are offsetting, but any person who feels marginally awkward about flying (in Europe!) may feel slightly less so with team orange. I expect some other airlines to follow suit.

So does SAS, they claim to compensate all their emissions for all Eurobonus members and have done so for a while. Which they probably do, but how effective it is is debatable. More important in my opinion, is that they give you the option to buy biofuel for your trip, which seems like something that can make a real difference.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
I saw SAS do that on my last flight and it was (ISTR) £75 (Stockholm to London). This is where I wonder if people will put their money where their mouth is.

They also have the seat frog thing where you can bid extra to go business. On a short haul flight, the minimum bid was £150 I think. I assume that varies (I flew at Christmas) but my goodness are there a load of ways to make already expensive flights even more expensive!
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,542
Location
Redcar
Getting a little off topic here I think gentlemen let's get back to the main discussion point of Sleeper services.

Thank you!
 

jamesontheroad

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2009
Messages
2,032
Getting a little off topic here I think gentlemen let's get back to the main discussion point of Sleeper services.

Noted, so while this is drifting a bit from Malmö-Köln, some news about Sweden’s domestic sleepers, via IRJ.

With a kind of cosmic balance, after SJ won a number of operating contracts from Vy in Norway last year, Vy have just won the contract to operate the Norrland sleeper from Stockholm to Luleå and Narvik. SJ will continue to run the Stockholm – Östersund – Duved service.

What I’m unclear about from the report is what this means for the Gothenburg portion. At present, the trains are split and recomposed in (?) Sundsvall, and half from Gothenburg goes to Duved and half goes to Luleå. If two different operators are running the two different routes, it won’t exactly incentivise them to coordinate on the Gothenburg portion.
 

JonasB

Member
Joined
27 Dec 2016
Messages
921
Location
Sweden
What I’m unclear about from the report is what this means for the Gothenburg portion. At present, the trains are split and recomposed in (?) Sundsvall, and half from Gothenburg goes to Duved and half goes to Luleå. If two different operators are running the two different routes, it won’t exactly incentivise them to coordinate on the Gothenburg portion.

According to the news yesterday, this would mean the end of the night train to Gothenburg. That resulted in a social media storm, so in todays news Vy mentioned that they will reconsider it.
 

duesselmartin

Established Member
Joined
18 Jan 2014
Messages
1,902
Location
Duisburg, Germany
Not sure how much that flight shaming is reality outside Scandanavia. It seems passenger numbers for all modes of transport Rose elsewhere, suggesting unnecrrsary mobility?
As to sleepers, a re-introduction of the Stockholm to Hamburg route with onward connections sounds sensible.
 

jamesontheroad

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2009
Messages
2,032
According to the news yesterday, this would mean the end of the night train to Gothenburg. That resulted in a social media storm, so in todays news Vy mentioned that they will reconsider it.

And now Snälltåget has jumped on the bandwagon, saying that they will explore the possibility of re-routing their seasonal Malmö-Jämtland couchette train via Gothenburg. That's obviously not the same as a daily sleeper train with both couchettes and sleepers, but like Vy it seems Snälltåget don't want to miss an opportunity to appear as the good guys coming to the rescue of passengers 'abandoned' by incumbent SJ and the faceless Trafikverket.
 

jamesontheroad

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2009
Messages
2,032
The Danish government has today decided to cofinance a future night train between Sweden and Germany if it stops in Denmark. That sounds like great news!

Press release from the department of transport: https://www.trm.dk/nyheder/2020/politisk-aftale-skal-forbedre-den-kollektive-trafik/ (in Danish but Google translate will do a decent job.)

This is indeed great news. The Swedish transport agency was scheduled to publish the final report on the proposal sometime around the end of April. So we should see a definitive plan very soon.

on a more broader note, I cannot think of a safer way to travel right now than in my own personal compartment. Maybe sleeper trains will have even greater popularity in the near future...
 

MarcVD

Member
Joined
23 Aug 2016
Messages
1,004
on a more broader note, I cannot think of a safer way to travel right now than in my own personal compartment. Maybe sleeper trains will have even greater popularity in the near future...

For that, compartments shared by strangers must disappear.
 

StephenHunter

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
2,118
Location
London
Although not for those with a penchant of sitting up quickly and hitting their head on the ceiling.
 

JonasB

Member
Joined
27 Dec 2016
Messages
921
Location
Sweden
This is indeed great news. The Swedish transport agency was scheduled to publish the final report on the proposal sometime around the end of April. So we should see a definitive plan very soon.

When I think about a bit more, it is really great news. It means it will be easier to get the parliament to accept the cost if it will be shared with Denmark.
 

StephenHunter

Established Member
Joined
22 Jul 2017
Messages
2,118
Location
London
They mentioned a possibility of trains to Belgium; it would not be entirely out of the realms of possibility to have a through carriage to Brussels, detach it at Cologne, then put it onto the Vienna-Brussels service.
 
Last edited:

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,867
Location
Airedale
They mentioned a possibility of trains to Belgium; it would not be entirely out of the realms of possibility to have a through carriage to Brussels, detach it at Cologne, then put it onto the Vienna-Brussels service.
Assuming the Nightjet has spare capacity - didn't they have to do tests to check if the planned load could manage the banks at Aachen and Liege? It might be operationally easier to run the whole train through.
Slightly OT but terminating the train at Koeln Hbf won't go down well with DB - it's extremely congested in the peak.
 

JonasB

Member
Joined
27 Dec 2016
Messages
921
Location
Sweden
Noted, so while this is drifting a bit from Malmö-Köln, some news about Sweden’s domestic sleepers, via IRJ.

With a kind of cosmic balance, after SJ won a number of operating contracts from Vy in Norway last year, Vy have just won the contract to operate the Norrland sleeper from Stockholm to Luleå and Narvik. SJ will continue to run the Stockholm – Östersund – Duved service.

What I’m unclear about from the report is what this means for the Gothenburg portion. At present, the trains are split and recomposed in (?) Sundsvall, and half from Gothenburg goes to Duved and half goes to Luleå. If two different operators are running the two different routes, it won’t exactly incentivise them to coordinate on the Gothenburg portion.

It seems like Vy has no interest in running any trains to Gothenburg. SJ are however considering operating night trains between Gothenburg and Umeå on a pure commercial basis, combined with their night trains to Jämtland. No decisions are made yet though, but they are looking at it. Might be a good idea at least in high season.

Proposed schedule:
Gothenburg-Umeå 19.50–07.53 and Umeå–Gothenburg 19.43–09.10.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top