HS2: Government to give high-speed rail line the go-ahead

duffield · 11 Feb 2020

As expected the PM has just confirmed in the House of Commons that the full HS2 project will go ahead without further delay plus all the other stuff that's been flagged up (Fleetwood, Ashington, NPR etc.). Just waiting for Corbyn to finish so maybe we can get some analysis and maybe some further snippets of detail.

Given the government's significant majority and the distance of the next election it looks like at least phase 1 and 2a will really happen.

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KashmireHawker · 11 Feb 2020

The Oakervee Review has now been formally published.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...tachment_data/file/864842/oakervee-review.pdf

tbtc · 11 Feb 2020

duffield said:
As expected the PM has just confirmed in the House of Commons that the full HS2 project will go ahead without further delay plus all the other stuff that's been flagged up (Fleetwood, Ashington, NPR etc.). Just waiting for Corbyn to finish so maybe we can get some analysis and maybe some further snippets of detail.

I'm not a Tory, but I think they've managed this reasonably well - in order to give green light to the big project that they want, they've had to announce lots of smaller scale "local" projects too, so that it all gets rolled up together - people can't complain that HS2 is stopping us from other infrastructure projects if it is announced on the same day as re-openings/ bus priority schemes/ allowing councils to borrow money to fund trams etc etc - it's a big package of transport improvements with at least a little bit for many areas, so will hopefully be a bit easier for some people to swallow.

Now just get on a build it!

nlogax · 11 Feb 2020

Little bit of what on the surface resembles pork barrel politics to get this over the wire, but it's all for transport-related benefits and should be commended. I'm glad to see this decision has finally been green-lit.

175mph · 11 Feb 2020

LNW-GW Joint said:
I think we are about 25 years behind the High Speed curve globally, more like 40 years behind some countries.
Even Morocco has a 186km 320km/h line in service (largely built and funded by France).
In Europe, France, Germany, Italy and Spain all have large high-speed networks, not to mention Japan and China.
We will be borrowing their technology, often using their contractors. HS1 is a French LGV clone.

If it makes you feel any better, Canada has NO high speed rail whatsoever, not even semi-high speed ie 140mph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Canada

Realfish · 11 Feb 2020

This is a great thread. To see so many positive reposes is such a welcome relief to, say the DT, who for months now have been running, seemingly co-ordinated, anti-HS2 pieces on a daily basis, sometimes twice a day, and this week-end three times - all accompanied by ignorant comments; 'It's an EU project', 'only saves 15 minutes', 'use the GCR','vanity project', 'upgrade existing lines', 'the Italian crash shows how dangerous high speed trains are', 'a target for terrorists'...etc. etc. etc.'

I am uplifted by the announcement and the response on here. Onwards and upwards.

ainsworth74 · 11 Feb 2020

A reminder that this thread is about HS2 not other aspects of the Prime Ministers announcement. If you wish to discuss those then please use a new or relevant existing thread.

LNW-GW Joint · 11 Feb 2020

There's a detailed announcement on the DfT website, but it is still "detail-lite".
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ahead-alongside-revolution-in-local-transport

Filleting the specific railway content:

HS2 will go ahead alongside radical improvements to local transport networks all across the country, the PM confirmed today.

In a statement to Parliament he set out that after careful consideration of the independent Oakervee review, the decision has been taken to proceed with HS2. With the right reforms in place, HS2 will become the spine of the country’s transport network, bringing our biggest cities closer together, boosting productivity and rebalancing opportunity fairly across the country.

Douglas Oakervee’s independent review into HS2 has today been published in full. After thorough analysis of the benefits and impacts of the project, work on Phase 1 (the route between London and Birmingham) is set to start in April. Government will revive the legislation to deliver Phase 2a (connecting Birmingham to Crewe) as soon as possible so that preparation works can move forward.

The Prime Minister told Parliament that he is committed to Phase 2b of the project, extending high-speed rail from the West Midlands to the North. In order to work out how best to deliver Northern Powerhouse Rail and Phase 2b more effectively, government will draw up an integrated plan for rail in the North, informed by an assessment from the National Infrastructure Commission.

This will work to identify the most effective sequencing of all relevant investments in the north, and look at how the two schemes can work together alongside wider investment in transport for the North and Midlands. It will also have a focus on ensuring that lessons are learned from Phase 1 of HS2 to drive down costs.

Recognising that better East-West connections are a priority for local leaders, the Government will look at how best to accelerate the delivery of Northern Powerhouse Rail, including looking at options for a new delivery body. The decision to proceed with HS2 is accompanied by a clear commitment to drawing a line under past failures of leadership, transparency and cost control, and a recognition that to go forward, things must change.

The PM outlined a number of measures to instil discipline and financial order to the project, including:

Appointing a dedicated minister with specific oversight and accountability for HS2

Redefining HS2 Ltd’s role so that they can give maximum focus to successfully delivering Phase 1 and 2a, and making new delivery arrangements for Euston station and the design and construction of Phase 2b, to ensure better value for money and on time delivery

Improved transparency through regular reports to Parliament from the responsible minister

HS2 Ltd will have to deliver Phases 1 and 2a (with Euston as a separate project), but is obviously going to lose control of the wider scheme.
Much now depends on the management team they put together, and who the Minister will be to oversee the delivery.

GRALISTAIR · 11 Feb 2020

I suppose the minister appointed could be made permanent as an Infrastructure minister or similar?

DynamicSpirit · 11 Feb 2020

LNW-GW Joint said:
There's a detailed announcement on the DfT website, but it is still "detail-lite".
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ahead-alongside-revolution-in-local-transport

There's more info here - which looks like the text of Boris Johnson's Commons announcement.

A few bits of interest:

Regarding Euston:

BorisJohnson said:
And, so that the company can focus solely on getting phases 1 and 2A built on something approaching on time and on budget

I will be creating new delivery arrangements for both the grossly behind-schedule Euston terminus, and phase 2B of the wider project.

And regarding NPR/HS2 Phase 2 - a bit vague but points to HS2 Phase 2 and NPR becoming two parts of one integrated plan:

BorisJohnson said:
But before those designs are finalised and legislation introduced, we will also present an integrated plan for rail in the north.

Informed by an assessment from the National Infrastructure Commission it will, in line with the findings of the Oakervee review, look at how we can best design and integrate rail investments across the north –

including Northern Powerhouse Rail between Leeds and Manchester, - and I have just spoken to the Mayor of Greater Manchester who has warmly welcomed this project - which I committed to supporting I remember during my first days in office.

I want the plan to identify the most effective design and sequencing of all relevant investments in the north.

For example, with many in the north crying out for better east/west links instead of improved north/south ones, which you’ve heard many times in this house

…some have suggested delaying or even cancelling HS2 in order to get Northern Powerhouse Rail done more quickly.

But I want to say to you Mr Speaker and to the House, this is not an either/or proposition.

Both are needed, and both will be built – as quickly and cost-effectively as possible.

To make sure that happens we will, working closely with northern leaders, explore options for creating a new delivery vehicle for Northern Powerhouse Rail.

And we will start treating HS2, north of Birmingham, Northern Powerhouse Rail and other local rail improvements as part of one integrated masterplan, High Speed North.

As far as I can see, the only other specific rail projects mentioned in the speech are the re-openings to Blyth/Ashington and to Fleetwood, and remodelling Bristol East Junction.

Elecman · 11 Feb 2020

GRALISTAIR said:
I suppose the minister appointed could be made permanent as an Infrastructure minister or similar?

Based on normal ministerial appointments that should be 3 different candidates for the term of this Parliament.

GRALISTAIR · 11 Feb 2020

Elecman said:
Based on normal ministerial appointments that should be 3 different candidates for the term of this Parliament.

That’s what I hate about the UK - no long term thinking.

Taunton · 11 Feb 2020

The Prime Minister, no less :

"It has been a controversial and difficult decision," Mr Johnson said. The prime minister added he was going to appoint a full-time minister to oversee the project and criticised the HS2 company's management of the scheme. "I cannot say that HS2 Limited has distinguished itself in the handling of local communities. The cost forecasts have exploded". The prime minister said that a series of measures would be taken to "restore discipline to the programme"

Too blooming right. The management abilities of this lot, already criticised for being some of the highest paid public positions in the country, are laughable. I very much expect to see resignations tomorrow, if they have any integrity left. The inability to cost forecast adequately is a real stupidity.

I suppose we should only have expected this as a significant number of HS2 seniors have transferred over from lying their way through Crossrail progress reports, and then doing a runner just as it all comes out.

RealTrains07 · 11 Feb 2020

Finally. Its about time it resumed. That space will be gladly appreciated on the south WCML once phase one is done.

muddythefish · 11 Feb 2020

DynamicSpirit said:
And regarding NPR/HS2 Phase 2 - a bit vague but points to HS2 Phase 2 and NPR becoming two parts of one integrated plan:

.

Makes sense to be honest, and hopefully will be given the green light too and brought forward so that construction can be finished before 2040. I would love to travel on it in my lifetime

Cambus731 · 11 Feb 2020

Thank heavens. For once sense has prevailed

Belperpete · 13 Feb 2020

I think that if they had cancelled it, it would have been the death-knell for any major infrastructure improvements for a long time.

I do think that there needs to be serious consideration as to why the project felt compelled to give clearly unrealistic estimates in order to get it approved. I think that part of the problem is this country's unwillingness to invest in big-budget infrastructure projects - politicians are scared at committing their reputation to big projects, particularly when there is any controversy involved. Likewise politicians don't like to be the bearers of bad news, which inevitably puts pressure on those below not to give them bad news.

And the seemingly never-ending reviews that have seriously delayed the project. It is a simple truth I have learnt over many years of working on signalling projects that the longer a project gets delayed, for whatever reason, the longer you will have people working on it, so the more it will cost to get finished. I do really envy those countries where, once they have made a decision about a big infrastructure project, they then just get on and do it. The sooner it is finished, the less chance the NIMBYs and BANANAs have to demand yet another review and delay.

LNW-GW Joint · 13 Feb 2020

Andrew Stephenson has been appointed a Minister of State in the Department of Transport (replacing Nus Ghani).
Although there's no indication of responsibilities yet, Boris has promised a dedicated minister will look after HS2, so it might be Andrew.
He's MP for Pendle (Ribble Valley) and originates from Macclesfield.
It would be a nice symmetry if a modern Stephenson was in put charge of building a new railway line from London to Birmingham.

Class 170101 · 14 Feb 2020

hwl said:
2a is nearly through Parliament (Lords committee stage) unlike 2b

Still would need authorisation from Boris (or maybe Cummings) to release the money to build it.

Bald Rick · 14 Feb 2020

Class 170101 said:
Still would need authorisation from Boris (or maybe Cummings) to release the money to build it.

That’s already been given in Tuesday’s announcement. The formal ‘Notice to Procced’ is awaited, but that is just the machinery of Governement.

Class 170101 · 14 Feb 2020

Bald Rick said:
That’s already been given in Tuesday’s announcement. The formal ‘Notice to Procced’ is awaited, but that is just the machinery of Governement.

I was referring to stage 2A. I thought that statement only authorised Stage 1?

WatcherZero · 14 Feb 2020

Confirmed 1 and 2A and gave a commitment to building 2B (route subject to review)

185 · 14 Feb 2020

As expected, mention today of an approach by either govt to the Chinese or vice versa, regarding building HS2 for a vastly reduced total £spend. Three weeks from the initial suggestion, CRRC and a consortium partner have opened the door to negotiations with UK govt who seem quite willing to talk. Heard mention of a 'flat pack railway', assume more will come out in time.

Telegraph said:
Britain is in talks with China about building its high-speed railway after Beijing claimed it could build the line faster and for less money, it has emerged.

Boris Johnson this week confirmed HS2 will go ahead, with track-laying on the first phase between London and Birmingham beginning in April.

Officials at the UK’s Department for Transport (DfT) said “preliminary discussions” have been underway between HS2 Ltd, the company responsible for building the high-speed line, and China Railway Construction Corporation, a state-owned company based in Beijing.

The company has claimed it can save the government “tens of billions” of pounds by taking on the HS2 project and building it within five years....

Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/14/britain-talks-china-building-hs2/

WatcherZero · 15 Feb 2020

One of the things the Oakervee report highlighted would be that the British Steel industry would be relying on making the rails.....

Bald Rick · 15 Feb 2020

Class 170101 said:
I was referring to stage 2A. I thought that statement only authorised Stage 1?

Definitely 1 and 2a.

squizzler · 15 Feb 2020

185 said:
Heard mention of a 'flat pack railway', assume more will come out in time.

A 1:1 scale train set? It would need to come in an awfully big box.

Meerkat · 15 Feb 2020

squizzler said:
A 1:1 scale train set? It would need to come in an awfully big box.

Imagine trying to put a whole viaduct together using one of those little Allen keys!
Not sure how you flat pack a tunnel

Lucan · 15 Feb 2020

Meerkat said:
Not sure how you flat pack a tunnel

Could be done :

Tio Terry · 15 Feb 2020

I wonder if the Chinese would use their own version of GSM-R using Huawei 5G kit?

Roast Veg · 15 Feb 2020

Tio Terry said:
I wonder if the Chinese would use their own version of GSM-R using Huawei 5G kit?

They would not be able to. The UK has not allowed safety critical systems to be constructed using Huawei equipment yet.

HS2: Government to give high-speed rail line the go-ahead

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