Northern franchise to end 1 March 2020 with Operator of Last Resort to take over

noddingdonkey · 11 Feb 2020

On uniforms, it's not that many years ago that I was by the rear door of a 158 waiting for the guard to come back from revenue duties and release the doors. He was further delayed by having to pop into the back cab and retrieve his hat.

"Doors won't open if I'm not wearing this. Or that's what my boss says".

(Ok it was RRNE days so maybe longer ago than I want to admit!)

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Djgr · 11 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
If you want an example of that, Southern went from accepted[1] to utterly derided to accepted again.

[1] Commuters will never go higher than "acceptable" in their rating of a train service, however good it actually is.

To be honest I consider Northern the exception that proves the rule, as commuting experience plummeted to unheard of lows.

swt_passenger · 11 Feb 2020

There’s absolutely no need to show the TOC name on station name boards particularly. The DfT should have enforced the standard “white on navy blue” described and proposed in the 2009 “better stations report”; it seems to have worked ok with the change from SWT to SWR not needing hundreds of stickers...

Bletchleyite · 11 Feb 2020

Djgr said:
To be honest I consider Northern the exception that proves the rule, as commuting experience plummeted to unheard of lows.

Southern was, at the height of the DOO furore, easily as bad.

noddingdonkey · 11 Feb 2020

swt_passenger said:
There’s absolutely no need to show the TOC name on station name boards particularly. The DfT should have enforced the standard “white on navy blue” described and proposed in the 2009 “better stations report”; it seems to have worked ok with the change from SWT to SWR not needing hundreds of stickers...

Useful to know who the managing TOC is so complaints can be directed appropriately?

swt_passenger · 11 Feb 2020

noddingdonkey said:
Useful to know who the managing TOC is so complaints can be directed appropriately?

That can easily be provided on the usual notices etc, rather than every possible permanent feature...

SteveM70 · 11 Feb 2020

noddingdonkey said:
Useful to know who the managing TOC is so complaints can be directed appropriately?

One sign, next to the local area maps etc. Doesn’t need to be plastered on everything

Meerkat · 11 Feb 2020

Mathew S said:
I don't know what kind of shirts you're wearing, but they really aren't cooler than a half-decent polo shirt - in either sense.

As for looking like workmen, that's because the clothing they're wearing is practical and fit for the job they're doing. The overwhelming majority of jobs are not 'formal' in nature - and certainly the railways are not - and so formal clothing simply isn't required, nor is it remotely practical.

A cotton shirt is cooler than a polo shirt - the material is thinner and it’s got more holes in the front!
The railway jobs are formal in nature - maybe not drivers but guards and platform staff are public facing and need to look authoritative enough to direct the public p.

bengley said:
I think police look better in polos - it looks more like tactical gear. I don't see why the police need to look 'smart'.

The police look scruffy as hell in polos, harms their authority.
And the police should definitely not be looking “tactical” - militarisation of the police is a very bad thing.

TUC · 11 Feb 2020

northernchris said:
I suspect a unit shortage is the most likely reason. Neville Hill don't have the resources to cover all services since the 142s went. When the timetables changed in December around 4 or 5 diagrams on the Lincoln/Nottingham circuit went to 195s, which in turn cascaded 158s west. Nothing has yet replaced these so looks like this will continue until either more 195s enter service or units are moved from the west

If that is the case:
a) why not simply say that instead of the 'too many trains needing repairing/replaced with a slower train nonsense?
b) why not put som strategic thought into which services are cancelled so as to have the least worst effect?

KieronQuinn · 12 Feb 2020

noddingdonkey said:
Useful to know who the managing TOC is so complaints can be directed appropriately?

On that note I think Manchester Oxford Road and possibly Deansgate too have Transport for Greater Manchester in place of the normal Northern logo (or white tape as others have pointed out is more common). I'm fairly sure Northern manage the stations so they obviously don't care that much

SteveM70 · 12 Feb 2020

The first two westbound trains from Hebden Bridge cancelled this morning, both quoting the “more trains needing to be repaired than usual” reason. Surely they can see that this is going to adversely impact customers a lot more than cancelling say the second and fourth?

northernchris · 12 Feb 2020

TUC said:
If that is the case:
a) why not simply say that instead of the 'too many trains needing repairing/replaced with a slower train nonsense?
b) why not put som strategic thought into which services are cancelled so as to have the least worst effect?

Agreed. I'm not sure who input the delay code into RTT but they do often use 'a problem at the depot' for unit shortages.

There's some services which are regular cancellations now, which implies there's some thought. The 1709 Leeds - Knaresborough is one and as the unit only forms one AM peak and one PM peak journey it's an easier target than cancelling an entire days diagram elsewhere. However, it really isn't acceptable to cancel consecutive journeys for this reason and if there aren't enough units available to run the timetable (which there clearly aren't in Yorkshire) a temporary timetable needs implementing to prevent this

Roast Veg · 12 Feb 2020

In a very real sense they have implemented a temporary timetable - it's the current timetable minus that service.

superkev · 12 Feb 2020

I wonder if the interior refurbs will continue the same after the new operator takes over.
Arriva may have contracts with suppliers, including there own Arriva traincare, to either complete or terminate.
I would guess a short pause while the new management gets upto speed.
K

Mathew S · 12 Feb 2020

Meerkat said:
The railway jobs are formal in nature

Well that might be daftest thing I've ever read on this forum, and it's got some stiff competition. Public facing does not equal formal, and a shirt and tie does not equal authoritative (quite the opposite imho, in fact the words 'jumped up little... ' leap to mind).

KieronQuinn said:
On that note I think Manchester Oxford Road and possibly Deansgate too have Transport for Greater Manchester in place of the normal Northern logo (or white tape as others have pointed out is more common). I'm fairly sure Northern manage the stations so they obviously don't care that much

Under Northern Rail, station signs had the local authority / PTE logo in one corner, and the Northern Rail logo in the other. At most stations, these same signs remain, just with the Northern Rail logo obscured.

Llama · 12 Feb 2020

Just a thought, but it's suspiciously coincidental that when the new Northern uniform came out with its polo shirts, the cracks started to appear...

ainsworth74 · 12 Feb 2020

I think this has thread has run it's course. If anyone really wants to do a deep dive on railway uniforms feel free to do so on a new thread otherwise I think we're done here. As and when there are developments regarding OLR and Northern feel free to start a new thread to discuss those specific developments.

Northern franchise to end 1 March 2020 with Operator of Last Resort to take over

noddingdonkey

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