Is this train unique?

Scott M · 12 Feb 2020

1734 - is it unique that it goes from being an express service in first half of journey to a stopper in second half?

Also in the second half of journey (BHM - Walsall) it is a stopper with an express passenger head code - how does that work - would it change headcode to 2734 after BHM?

I believe this train used to terminate at BHM and become a Walsall service, I guess they noticed they might as well just make it a Liverpool - Walsall service.

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Darandio · 12 Feb 2020

It doesn't have an "express passenger" headcode, it runs as 2A29 throughout.

There are loads of examples of what people might define as an express service running under a '2' headcode and vice versa.

AndrewE · 12 Feb 2020

Darandio said:
It doesn't have an "express passenger" headcode, it runs as 2A29 throughout.

It seems that class 1 and 2 aren't very strictly applied any more, and the Euston to Scotland trains via the West Midlands are even class 9s! (as are some passenger trains elsewhere too.)

Darandio · 12 Feb 2020

AndrewE said:
It seems that class 1 and 2 aren't very strictly applied any more, and the Euston to Scotland trains via the West Midlands are even class 9s! (as are some passenger trains elsewhere too.)

Indeed, although in the case of those with 9 isn't this to assist with identification for signallers?

AndrewE · 12 Feb 2020

Darandio said:
Indeed, although in the case of those with 9 isn't this to assist with identification for signallers?

I believe it is, now that unfitted freights have disappeared. I was being mischievous, but I'm not up to speed with smileys!

43055 · 12 Feb 2020

Darandio said:
Indeed, although in the case of those with 9 isn't this to assist with identification for signallers?

Looks like 9 is used on Avanti for via Birmingham as all the Euston to Birmingham and beyond is 9G, 9S or 9J and any from Scotland is 9M. All the services that start at Birmingham is class 1.

One where a stopping service is classed as an express is the Derby - Crewe (1Kxx). Apparently this is done because of the signaling at Kidsgrove where it might let a Manchester service have priority over the Derby service.

vlad · 12 Feb 2020

43055 said:
One where a stopping service is classed as an express is the Derby - Crewe (1Kxx). Apparently this is done because of the signaling at Kidsgrove where it might let a Manchester service have priority over the Derby service.

I always wondered about that given that the Manchester trains don't stop at Longport and are run by faster vehicles than the Crewe trains.

StephenHunter · 12 Feb 2020

AndrewE said:
It seems that class 1 and 2 aren't very strictly applied any more, and the Euston to Scotland trains via the West Midlands are even class 9s! (as are some passenger trains elsewhere too.)

All Eurostars are Class 9; they use I and O letters so they can fit in the continental system i.e. 9I05 is 9105, the latter number also being used on passenger display screens.

swt_passenger · 12 Feb 2020

AndrewE said:
It seems that class 1 and 2 aren't very strictly applied any more, and the Euston to Scotland trains via the West Midlands are even class 9s! (as are some passenger trains elsewhere too.)

Yes, class 1 is reserved for crack expresses - such as the Brockenhurst to Lymington
Pier shuttle... o_O

StephenHunter · 12 Feb 2020

swt_passenger said:
Yes, class 1 is reserved for crack expresses - such as the Brockenhurst to Lymington
Pier shuttle...

Insert joke about Class A drugs here.

pdeaves · 12 Feb 2020

Darandio said:
There are loads of examples of what people might define as an express service running under a '2' headcode and vice versa.

Indeed. Just one example is 1345 Waterloo-Portsmouth, express to Woking then almost all stops thereafter.

py_megapixel · 13 Feb 2020

There is also the example of the Cheltenham to London services - all stations to Swindon, then express to London.

Kite159 · 13 Feb 2020

There are probably countless examples of trains which start of being limited stop before becoming all-station services.

For example Waterloo - Weymouth services, which can be London - (Clapham) - Woking/Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, then all stops to Weymouth

GoatSarah · 13 Feb 2020

Kite159 said:
There are probably countless examples of trains which start of being limited stop before becoming all-station services.

For example Waterloo - Weymouth services, which can be London - (Clapham) - Woking/Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, then all stops to Weymouth

The Cambridge to London train which is regarded as the slow if you live in Cambridge is regarded as the fast if you live in Welwyn.

Bletchleyite · 14 Feb 2020

Kite159 said:
There are probably countless examples of trains which start of being limited stop before becoming all-station services.

For example Waterloo - Weymouth services, which can be London - (Clapham) - Woking/Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton Airport, Southampton Central, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth, then all stops to Weymouth

The practice of running "fast to X then all stations to Y" and a separate "all stations to X" is a very common South East practice, as distinct from the practice you get elsewhere of an IC doing a few stops and an all stations stopper. It's a very efficient practice where you have a large number of people travelling to one destination (i.e. London commuters), and it also makes quite good use of line capacity.

The south WCML sort of works like that, though not as cleanly as it used to.

JBuchananGB · 15 Feb 2020

Another good example would be 1J10 the 0740 service from Liverpool Street to Southminster, Non-stop from LST to Wickford, then all stations to Southminster. Three similar services in the evening peak call additionally at Stratford.

alistairlees · 15 Feb 2020

This is not new at all. In the 1980s the 06.12 Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle was all stations to Manchester Victoria then the usual calling pattern (Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Dewsbury, Leeds, York, Thirsk, Northallerton, Darlington, Durham and Newcastle thereafter.

There were similar examples in north Wales, with trains from Holyhead or Bangor making local stops to Llandudno Junction before starting to omit stops thereafter.

Kite159 · 15 Feb 2020

alistairlees said:
This is not new at all. In the 1980s the 06.12 Liverpool Lime Street to Newcastle was all stations to Manchester Victoria then the usual calling pattern (Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Dewsbury, Leeds, York, Thirsk, Northallerton, Darlington, Durham and Newcastle thereafter.

There were similar examples in north Wales, with trains from Holyhead or Bangor making local stops to Llandudno Junction before starting to omit stops thereafter.

I remember that one well, Holyhead to Birmingham where it was all stops (by request) to Llandudno Junction then non-stop to Chester.
Or that seemingly random Holyhead - Cardiff service which ran non-stop to Newport from Shrewsbury for some particular reason

jopsuk · 15 Feb 2020

As another example of "fast to x, all stops to y" the London to Kings Lynn services are fast to Cambridge then all stops across the fens

Marton · 15 Feb 2020

The 155) Hexham to Whitby is a 9. 9N38.

I was told by someone at an EVRDC public display stand that the idea of 9 was for the school trains, to ensure they ran. This isn’t a school train, and the school trains, like all other trains on the line, are 2s.

Doomotron · 15 Feb 2020

Could the Brighton to Ashford services have been a fast service then a stopper? They went fast to Hastings and then pretty much all stops to Ashford.

Kite159 · 16 Feb 2020

Marton said:
The 155) Hexham to Whitby is a 9. 9N38.

I was told by someone at an EVRDC public display stand that the idea of 9 was for the school trains, to ensure they ran. This isn’t a school train, and the school trains, like all other trains on the line, are 2s.

I think that one is a class 9 to highlight that it should get given priority to make sure it doesn't get delayed along the way (i.e. held for a late running TPE), due to the single track sections beyond Middlesborough.

Is this train unique?

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