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Norwich in 90 abandoned?

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trebor79

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Just perusing time for Diss to London and return next week.
Noticed the 1700 departure from Liverpool Street is shown as calling at Ipswich and Diss instead of just Ipswich.
The 1702 is shown as calling at Shenfield etc to Ispwich whereas previously it had the usual intercity cally pattern.

Are these service alterations due to half term week or something more permanent?
 
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306024

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Think you've got that mixed up. The 17.00 from Liverpool St was never a 90 minute schedule, and the 17.02 has always called Shenfield. The 11.00 and 19.00 are the 90 minute runs, on paper.
 
Flying Snail

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The 17.00 from Norwich is booked 90 minutes.

A question about these, what stock is used? They are timetabled as Std class only with no catering which seems a bit odd for the supposedly special express services.
 
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trebor79

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Flying Snail said:
The 17.00 from Norwich is booked 90 minutes.

A question about these, what stock is used? They are timetabled as Std class only with no catering which seems a bit odd for the supposedly special express services.
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Class 90 + Mk3 set. Some rumour/supposition/info they were meant to be 2x755 but the delayed 755 roll out prevented that.
 
TrainTube

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Great, the N in 90 unit for today is cancelled, the day I decide to ride it. GA also state that the 11:02 is a trolley only, not a buffet. Does this mean it's a 745 or a 321?
 
dk1

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TrainTube said:
Great, the N in 90 unit for today is cancelled, the day I decide to ride it. GA also state that the 11:02 is a trolley only, not a buffet. Does this mean it's a 745 or a 321?
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Hauled set no buffet car. Catering cannot be provided on 321s. 745s currently do the 0900 and 1000 down however only one is available for traffic this morning.
 
TrainTube

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Will my tickets be accepted on another service? There's other problems in the line, I have first class on the way back so I should be fine.
 
dk1

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TrainTube said:
Will my tickets be accepted on another service? There's other problems in the line, I have first class on the way back so I should be fine.
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Usually the one before and one after. Why cant you use the 1102? It has proper 1st class.
 
TrainTube

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dk1 said:
Usually the one before and one after. Why cant you use the 1102? It has proper 1st class.
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I had first class on the way back, should've clarified on the way back was from Norwich to London.
 
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trebor79

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Grumbler said:
When the service reverts to two per hour, could one of those be a 90-minute?
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Why would they do that? Loadings are likely to be low on any case so calling all shacks to pick up passengers is a good move. Also prevents people to/from anywhere other than Ipswich or Norwich being crammed into one train.
Plus I don't think the good folk of Diss, Stowmarket etc would appreciate losing half their train service.
Really don't understand the Norwich in 90 obsession. A token service established to shut up a few MPs doesn't need to go any further than that.
In fact post COVID I'm rather hoping the whole thing is quietly dropped.
 
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Grumbler

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trebor79 said:
Why would they do that? Loadings are likely to be low on any case so calling all shacks to pick up passengers is a good move. Also prevents people to/from anywhere other than Ipswich or Norwich being crammed into one train.
Plus I don't think the good folk of Diss, Stowmarket etc would appreciate losing half their train service.
Really don't understand the Norwich in 90 obsession. A token service established to shut up a few MPs doesn't need to go any further than that.
In fact post COVID I'm rather hoping the whole thing is quietly dropped.
Click to expand...
According to posts on other threads, there is a huge amount of slack in the current timetable, so is it possible for the 90 to serve Diss? Stowmarket would revert to one Norwich train per hour.
 
dk1

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Grumbler said:
When the service reverts to two per hour, could one of those be a 90-minute?
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There would not be a path for it unless you stuck to the Ni90 train times but you will upset those using the intermediate stations who would say use the 09:04 or 17:04 up/11:02 & 19:02 down. Many of these are busy trains.
 
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TheWalrus

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Anyone know why nearly all Norwich services call at Manningtree? Seems an odd place for nearly all services to call whereas Chelmsford only get 1 call on the Norwich per hour, although it gets more services overall.
 
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TheWalrus said:
Anyone know why nearly all Norwich services call at Manningtree? Seems an odd place for nearly all services to call whereas Chelmsford only get 1 call on the Norwich per hour, although it gets more services overall.
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It's the junction for the Harwich branch and sees many pax off-peak. As you say, Chelmsford has many other services so fewer Norwich services need to call there.
 
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Dave1987

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TheWalrus said:
Anyone know why nearly all Norwich services call at Manningtree? Seems an odd place for nearly all services to call whereas Chelmsford only get 1 call on the Norwich per hour, although it gets more services overall.
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Very big car park, plus the Harwich branch connections. Manningtree actually has a very large catchment area.
 
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Dave1987

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trebor79 said:
Why would they do that? Loadings are likely to be low on any case so calling all shacks to pick up passengers is a good move. Also prevents people to/from anywhere other than Ipswich or Norwich being crammed into one train.
Plus I don't think the good folk of Diss, Stowmarket etc would appreciate losing half their train service.
Really don't understand the Norwich in 90 obsession. A token service established to shut up a few MPs doesn't need to go any further than that.
In fact post COVID I'm rather hoping the whole thing is quietly dropped.
Click to expand...

As much as I am inclined to agree with you in some ways I do find it funny how people's bias to their station comes into these arguments. Diss is not a huge place and is actually arguably over-served based on its population and Stowmarket underserved.

Populations:

Colchester - 192,523

Chelmsford - 168,310

Stowmarket - 15,059

Diss - 7,572

So one could argue that the half-hourly Diss stop could be dropped and the Stowmarket service increased to half-hourly to London.
 
dk1

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Dave1987 said:
As much as I am inclined to agree with you in some ways I do find it funny how people's bias to their station comes into these arguments. Diss is not a huge place and is actually arguably over-served based on its population and Stowmarket underserved.

Populations:

Colchester - 192,523

Chelmsford - 168,310

Stowmarket - 15,059

Diss - 7,572

So one could argue that the half-hourly Diss stop could be dropped and the Stowmarket service increased to half-hourly to London.
Click to expand...
Diss gets a lot of local traffic to/from Norwich as well as used as a railhead for a large catchment area travelling to London. Stowmarket benefits from 3 other trains each way every 2 hours on the Ipswich-Cambridge/Peterborough axis that offer excellent connections into the other London IC service.
 
dk1

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Grumbler said:
According to posts on other threads, there is a huge amount of slack in the current timetable, so is it possible for the 90 to serve Diss? Stowmarket would revert to one Norwich train per hour.
Click to expand...
Easily possible but it wouldnt be wise to drop back to hourly. The economic and political backlash would be rather large.
 
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trebor79

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Dave1987 said:
As much as I am inclined to agree with you in some ways I do find it funny how people's bias to their station comes into these arguments. Diss is not a huge place and is actually arguably over-served based on its population and Stowmarket underserved.

Populations:

Colchester - 192,523

Chelmsford - 168,310

Stowmarket - 15,059

Diss - 7,572

So one could argue that the half-hourly Diss stop could be dropped and the Stowmarket service increased to half-hourly to London.
Click to expand...
dk1 said:
Diss gets a lot of local traffic to/from Norwich as well as used as a railhead for a large catchment area travelling to London. Stowmarket benefits from 3 other trains each way every 2 hours on the Ipswich-Cambridge/Peterborough axis that offer excellent connections into the other London IC service.
Click to expand...
Indeed, I think people who aren't familiar with the area would be surprised at how busy Diss can be. Not uncommon for 100 passengers to board or alight, even outside of the peaks.
 
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