When Posh People Trespass

neilmc · 13 Feb 2020

I just found this BBC article from January regards a hunt straying on to railway tracks in Nottinghamshire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-51010018

Police are investigating after a Nottinghamshire hunt was filmed with its hounds on a live rail line.

A member of the Grove and Rufford hunt was filmed with the dogs riding down the track at Westbrecks Crossing near Retford.

Network Rail said trespassing on a live section of line is illegal.

A spokesman for the hunt said they believed the line to be inactive but would assist police with any enquiries.

Sheffield Hunt Saboteurs posted the footage from Saturday on social media.

They seemed to justify it on the grounds that the line wasn't actually in use.

I have certainly read past accounts where the railway tracks were seen as some kind of an extension of local landowners' property and fox hunts thought nothing of crossing main lines in pursuit of one poor creature. There's plenty of recent news articles pertaining to hounds being killed by trains but in this case the huntsmen could be seen on the line. So I wonder, are they too posh to prosecute?

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GRALISTAIR · 13 Feb 2020

Good lord, we really must as a nation get out of this mindset that it is OK to stray onto railway tracks. As I pointed out in another thread, it really is not fair on the drivers and the stress it must cause them. It causes delays to passengers (their fellow human beings) too. I personally would at least give them a caution and possibly prosecute. A firm message needs to be sent imho.

Bletchleyite · 13 Feb 2020

GRALISTAIR said:
Good lord, we really must as a nation get out of this mindset that it is OK to stray onto railway tracks. As I pointed out in another thread, it really is not fair on the drivers and the stress it must cause them. It causes delays to passengers (their fellow human beings) too. I personally would at least give them a caution and possibly prosecute. A firm message needs to be sent imho.

Is the line disused as they state, or not?

SquireBev · 13 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Is the line disused as they state, or not?

"Network Rail said it was still used by freight traffic and some passenger charter services"

So not regularly used, but still used.

bramling · 13 Feb 2020

neilmc said:
I just found this BBC article from January regards a hunt straying on to railway tracks in Nottinghamshire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-51010018

They seemed to justify it on the grounds that the line wasn't actually in use.

I have certainly read past accounts where the railway tracks were seen as some kind of an extension of local landowners' property and fox hunts thought nothing of crossing main lines in pursuit of one poor creature. There's plenty of recent news articles pertaining to hounds being killed by trains but in this case the huntsmen could be seen on the line. So I wonder, are they too posh to prosecute?

It's one thing if the line is genuinely out of use, however in this case AIUI they seem to be mistakenly assuming that because the power station is closed this means the line is closed.

It does seem to be the case that lines which are genuinely closed become de-facto unofficial paths without anyone seeming to care too much, for example the disused line through Dudley or the Leamside line when it still had tracks.

BRblue · 13 Feb 2020

neilmc said:
I just found this BBC article from January regards a hunt straying on to railway tracks in Nottinghamshire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-51010018

They seemed to justify it on the grounds that the line wasn't actually in use.

I have certainly read past accounts where the railway tracks were seen as some kind of an extension of local landowners' property and fox hunts thought nothing of crossing main lines in pursuit of one poor creature. There's plenty of recent news articles pertaining to hounds being killed by trains but in this case the huntsmen could be seen on the line. So I wonder, are they too posh to prosecute?

No excuses for that behaviour... it is trespassing as simple as that, the video evidence should be sufficient to bring a prosecution.
Let's be honest here if that was a teenager this forum would be baying for blood, this character should be treated no differently!

theironroad · 13 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Is the line disused as they state, or not?

Network rail say in the article it is still in use.

I'm a bit confused by this statemen from the hunt:

"This kind of dense undergrowth provides an ideal daytime resting spot for a fox, which hounds are bred to chase through generations."

I though hunting a fox was now illegal in this country and only hunting a scent was allowed.....what have I missed?

Bletchleyite · 13 Feb 2020

You can chase them, just not kill them (I think).

BRblue · 13 Feb 2020

This answers a few questions...
https://www.gov.uk/hunting/mammals
Especially the part having the permission of the land owner.

SlimJim1694 · 13 Feb 2020

There was a mass trespass of fox hunters on new years day on the Chiltern route in Warwickshire. They refused to leave the line when told to by the driver. It was reported in the ASLEF journal.

6Gman · 13 Feb 2020

neilmc said:
I just found this BBC article from January regards a hunt straying on to railway tracks in Nottinghamshire.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-51010018

They seemed to justify it on the grounds that the line wasn't actually in use.

I have certainly read past accounts where the railway tracks were seen as some kind of an extension of local landowners' property and fox hunts thought nothing of crossing main lines in pursuit of one poor creature. There's plenty of recent news articles pertaining to hounds being killed by trains but in this case the huntsmen could be seen on the line. So I wonder, are they too posh to prosecute?

The story does actually say that the matter is being investigated by the police.

They, and then the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) will decide what action to take.

There are various options:

A word of advice;
A formal warning/police caution;
Prosecution .

I doubt that "too posh to prosecute" will enter into it.

6Gman · 13 Feb 2020

theironroad said:
Network rail say in the article it is still in use.

I'm a bit confused by this statemen from the hunt:

"This kind of dense undergrowth provides an ideal daytime resting spot for a fox, which hounds are bred to chase through generations."

I though hunting a fox was now illegal in this country and only hunting a scent was allowed.....what have I missed?

The statement wasn't from the hunt; it was from the anti-hunt group.

I assume the point they were making was that if you take a pack of foxhounds past a habitat used by foxes you're likely to end up with hounds chasing, and potentially killing, a fox. Which would be illegal.

dgl · 13 Feb 2020

SlimJim1694 said:
There was a mass trespass of fox hunters on new years day on the Chiltern route in Warwickshire. They refused to leave the line when told to by the driver. It was reported in the ASLEF journal.

Too bad you couldn't use the train to nudge them out of the way, or rev it a few times like boy racers at traffic lights!, although a few toots might scare the horses, and it would be so bad for some of these t**** to be knocked off their horses wouldn't it?

But these people are stupid and need to be met with the full force of the law, if anything a lightly used line is MORE dangerous that a well used line as you won't expect there to be a train and so when it sneaks up on you it will be too late, they may think that because they are rich they have power, unfortunately stopping trains in 2secs is not one of them.

miami · 13 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
You can chase them, just not kill them (I think).

Tresspassers?

DarloRich · 13 Feb 2020

posh idiots. Typical of moronic hunting types who think they rule the world. Ban it completely.

lammergeier · 13 Feb 2020

DarloRich said:
posh idiots. Typical of moronic hunting types who think they rule the world. Ban it completely.

Couldn't agree more. Scum of the earth. Some of the stories I've heard about hunts trespassing and killing pets and farm animals are appalling.

dgl · 13 Feb 2020

lammergeier said:
Couldn't agree more. Scum of the earth. Some of the stories I've heard about hunts trespassing and killing pets and farm animals are appalling.

Yes, my Grandad lost more money from the damage the hunt did than he ever lost due to foxes, so these posh t***s might try to cliam they are helping farmers but they really are not.

theironroad · 13 Feb 2020

BRblue said:
This answers a few questions...
https://www.gov.uk/hunting/mammals
Especially the part having the permission of the land owner.

Which funnily enough I don't imagine NR gave them!

6Gman said:
The statement wasn't from the hunt; it was from the anti-hunt group.

I assume the point they were making was that if you take a pack of foxhounds past a habitat used by foxes you're likely to end up with hounds chasing, and potentially killing, a fox. Which would be illegal.

Indeed, my error there , read the article a bit too quick....

I only hope this newly emboldened government doesn't bow to pressure and reverse the hunting ban.

158756 · 13 Feb 2020

SquireBev said:
"Network Rail said it was still used by freight traffic and some passenger charter services"

So not regularly used, but still used.

It might technically still be open, but the line does only to go the former power station. Maybe Network Rail are still sending maintenance trains along or something, but it looks like it isn't closed simply because no one's done the paperwork yet.

GRALISTAIR · 13 Feb 2020

DarloRich said:
Typical of moronic hunting types who think they rule the world. Ban it completely.

Would be the best solution imho. I thought it already was btw. In the meantime, no trespassing on the railway please. The point about a reduced/less predictable service on the line being more dangerous is well made.

GlosRail · 13 Feb 2020

2 hounds got killed the other week on the line between Swindon and Bristol Parkway.

ChiefPlanner · 13 Feb 2020

The days when railways used to advise drivers to watch out for Hunts in the season are very long gone , ditto handing out silver coins to the hard working "artisans" who stopped their trains in time before running over the precious Hunt , presumably by half cut riders.

Trespass is trespass. There are laws dating back to the earliest days of railways.

Spartacus · 13 Feb 2020

Plenty of trespassers sighted with dogs all over the country, just usually they're walking them or going rabitting. Then they've often got a shotgun too. There's plenty who think any line that sees less than one train an hour is just an unofficial footpath, so let's nobody pretend it's hunt thing.

Nobody I've never know who'd been part of a 'hunt' is anything like posh, but that phoney class war aside, exercising your dogs while riding a horse isn't illegal, which should be in effect what they're doing. The problem is that many dogs on sighting a fox/rabbit/cat/squirrel will bound off after it. If you were to make dogs chasing foxes, or indeed accidentally killing them, illegal, you'd be in effect be forcing everyone to keep their dog on a lead at all times while outside for fear of committing an offence, which nobody's going to be willing to do.

jh64 · 13 Feb 2020

Taking Rex for a stroll round the block isn't quite the same as going out on horseback dressed in hunting finery with a dozen trained hounds on a route which by sheer chance covers known fox habitats, completely coincidentally and not at all planned...

Spartacus · 13 Feb 2020

jh64 said:
Taking Rex for a stroll round the block isn't quite the same as going out on horseback dressed in hunting finery with a dozen trained hounds on a route which by sheer chance covers known fox habitats, completely coincidentally and not at all planned...

But plenty take rex out for a stroll along running railways, with and without the intention of catching something. All I'm trying to say is that this attitude's hardly confined to the horsey set. I'd be inclined to take a light view of what a hunt saboteur has said happened in regards to how the dogs got there without a bit more neutral viewpoint. Farmers have led their animals a good distance down lines before because they're trying to get them back to the best point to get them off the line.

2L70 · 13 Feb 2020

Seen this myself, been cautioned by the signaller because of a trespass and noticed a man with a white flag dangerously close to the Running line. Just society in general now thinking they can do what they want, when they want.

Bevan Price · 13 Feb 2020

Whilst there are presumably many law-abiding people taking part, "hunting" also seems to attract a number of arrogant g*ts who think it is OK to let their dogs loose anywhere, whether that be railways, farmers' crops or residents' flower gardens, and it is just "bad luck" if their dogs kill or injure pet animals. What is needed is strict enforcement of the law, and stiff penalties for those responsible.

SlimJim1694 · 13 Feb 2020

I'd binned my ASLEF magazine, but here is an image of the report for anyone who is interested. Its taken from the West Midlands Hunt Sabatuer facebook page which I found in a Google search.

Edit: I've tried to copy and paste the text but can't do it so here is a brief summary of the article -

It's a half page story from the January 2020 ASLEF journal featuring photos of hunters on the railway line at Fenny Compton on the Chiltern line on new years day. It says they ignored pleas to leave the railway from the train driver. It includes comments from ASLEF reps and Netwotk Rail officials both agreeing that trespassing on the railway is dsngerous and wrong. The headline is "Tally Ho! Toffs On The Line"

Cowley · 13 Feb 2020

Wasn’t there a very nasty incident on the Llangollen Railway recently where some hunting hounds were run over (which I believe lots of children witnessed) by a steam train?
You’d think that these people would have some kind of magazine maybe called something like ‘Horsies & Hinds’ that could perhaps feature an article on the dangers of crossing railway lines..?

Peter C · 13 Feb 2020

Cowley said:
Wasn’t there a very nasty incident on the Llangollen Railway recently where some hunting hounds were run over (which I believe lots of children witnessed) by a steam train?
You’d think that these people would have some kind of magazine maybe called something like ‘Horsies & Hinds’ that could perhaps feature an article on the dangers of crossing railway lines..?

Yep, according to Mr. Google it was a Santa Special. One dog hit.

-Peter

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