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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

43096

43096

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Malcolmffc said:
Given SWR’s financial problems, probably understandable they aren’t too bothered with cosmetic maintenance for units that will likely be scrapped in the next 12-18 months
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The future of the fleet is irrelevant and is none of the TOC's business - they have a contract that states the condition they have to be handed back in. It doesn't matter if they go for scrap, the vehicle owner is entitled to get them back in the condition as contracted for.
 
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Goldfish62

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Ethano92 said:
I thought the idea was for the 10 car units to be introduced first, supposedly easier as there aren't issues surrounding working in multiple, does anyone know how many 10 cars are complete if any, there appears to have only been media of 5 car testing, not 10.
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Yes, that's what I heard, with them going on the Reading line first as it operates all day every day with 10 car formations. The one being tested at Velim isn't going to be one of the first delivered to SWR. Last I heard it would be a 10 car straight from Derby.

Perhaps things have changed again.
 
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Malcolmffc

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43096 said:
The future of the fleet is irrelevant and is none of the TOC's business - they have a contract that states the condition they have to be handed back in. It doesn't matter if they go for scrap, the vehicle owner is entitled to get them back in the condition as contracted for.
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If the vehicle owner has no further plans to monetise the fleet then I doubt they care
 
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Malcolmffc said:
If the vehicle owner has no further plans to monetise the fleet then I doubt they care
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I do wonder if perhaps contracts are written or adjusted to take end of life fleets into account?

SWT and now SWR have leased the 455s since privatisation and IMHO they are now at the end of their useful life. One would have thought (hoped) that either SWT or SWR would have had a certain amount of deterioration written into their contract with the ROSCO.
 
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Goldfish62

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PG said:
I do wonder if perhaps contracts are written or adjusted to take end of life fleets into account?

SWT and now SWR have leased the 455s since privatisation and IMHO they are now at the end of their useful life. One would have thought (hoped) that either SWT or SWR would have had a certain amount of deterioration written into their contract with the ROSCO.
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It would make sense. Virgin Trains famously ran down their fleet prior to the introduction of the Pendolinos and Voyagers, and GWR's HSTs were getting rather scruffy unkempt ahead of IET introduction.

I'd be surprised if the 455/456s and 458s have any further use. The latter just seem too temperamental for a new operator to take on afresh and their reliability has been quite poor since 5-car conversion.
 
Domh245

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A name for a suburban commuter fleet seems like a bit of an odd one, although I suppose they're allowed to refer to them however they like internally!

I might cheekily suggest 5/10ARS - Aventra Reading Suburban :P
 
43096

43096

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Malcolmffc said:
If the vehicle owner has no further plans to monetise the fleet then I doubt they care
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PG said:
I do wonder if perhaps contracts are written or adjusted to take end of life fleets into account?

SWT and now SWR have leased the 455s since privatisation and IMHO they are now at the end of their useful life. One would have thought (hoped) that either SWT or SWR would have had a certain amount of deterioration written into their contract with the ROSCO.
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Goldfish62 said:
It would make sense. Virgin Trains famously ran down their fleet prior to the introduction of the Pendolinos and Voyagers, and GWR's HSTs were getting rather scruffy unkempt ahead of IET introduction.

I'd be surprised if the 455/456s and 458s have any further use. The latter just seem too temperamental for a new operator to take on afresh and their reliability has been quite poor since 5-car conversion.
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The condition of the as vehicle returned should generally be as it would be expected to be based on where it is in the maintenance cycle. Whilst the ROSCO may agree otherwise, the TOC cannot make that assumption, indeed any assumption about the future use of the vehicle (or not).

GWR may have run down their HST fleet, but I bet they were being charged by the ROSCOs for the poor condition when they off-leased them - especially as a significant number were being transferred elsewhere.

It never ceases to amaze me just how naïve some people are about contracts and the obligations in them.
 
Mikey C

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Bigfoot said:
SWR have launched an internal staff competition to name the new 701 fleet.
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The Southwestern always seemed a bit more enthusiastic about naming its stock, or unofficially using the old code system, e.g. the 4-DES and 4-JOP, something no other ex Southern Region area did!
 
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Snow1964

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PG said:
I do wonder if perhaps contracts are written or adjusted to take end of life fleets into account?

SWT and now SWR have leased the 455s since privatisation and IMHO they are now at the end of their useful life. One would have thought (hoped) that either SWT or SWR would have had a certain amount of deterioration written into their contract with the ROSCO.
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Of course, but the condition relaxation is for fleets at end of life, not sure of specifics but likely to apply to 30+ years old, and also depends on how long have been used. You can’t have something for 2 years and trash it even if 35 years old. But if run it for 15 years starting when it was 20 years old it might have a no further use clause.

A no further use clause means don’t need to return it fully maintained and in operational condition. In basic terms lease Co is accepting they have had their money and expect item to go for scrap not reuse.
 
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hwl

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Goldfish62 said:
Yes, that's what I heard, with them going on the Reading line first as it operates all day every day with 10 car formations. The one being tested at Velim isn't going to be one of the first delivered to SWR. Last I heard it would be a 10 car straight from Derby.

Perhaps things have changed again.
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The question is how you introduce 10car units on the Windsor lines and get rid 8 car diagrams across the suburban network ASAP too. Hence replacing 455s on Kingston Loop to retirement and some shuffling of 707s off the Windsor lines to via Wimbledon routes spring to mind as possibilities. It won't be a simple roll out plan.
 
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TEW

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hwl said:
The question is how you introduce 10car units on the Windsor lines and get rid 8 car diagrams across the suburban network ASAP too. Hence replacing 455s on Kingston Loop to retirement and some shuffling of 707s off the Windsor lines to via Wimbledon routes spring to mind as possibilities. It won't be a simple roll out plan.
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Too many 707s on routes via Wimbledon are it becomes difficult with traction knowledge. Would have thought it will have to go straight to 701s replacing the 8-455 formations.
 
RealTrains07

RealTrains07

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Bigfoot said:
SWR have launched an internal staff competition to name the new 701 fleet.
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Thats odd for a suburban fleet to have a name. Intercity I would understand but not a suburban fleet. Unless they name each individual train?
 
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hwl

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TEW said:
Too many 707s on routes via Wimbledon are it becomes difficult with traction knowledge. Would have thought it will have to go straight to 701s replacing the 8-455 formations.
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Exactly and which is the most logical outcome but then there is the (previous?) desire to start the swap on the Windsor side possibly aided by having Feltham available in the summer
The reality is probably a very complex process that starts with the half the 455s going (circa 20 diagrams) either going directly to 701 or indirectly to 707 first in the interim. But there are just under half that number of diagrams on the Windsor side with 2x 455.
 
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Meerkat

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RealTrains07 said:
Thats odd for a suburban fleet to have a name. Intercity I would understand but not a suburban fleet. Unless they name each individual train?
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A snappy name would help the marketing emphasise the all new, much better equipped trains.
 
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Kieran1990

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Friend of mine suspects they will be rolled out onto Waterloo-Chessington-Waterloo-Hampton Ct- Waterloo circuit first. All the Surrey locals (Waterloo P1-P4) services were altered in Dec not to inter work as much and this would self contain the units with the initial roll out
 
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Goldfish62

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Kieran1990 said:
Friend of mine suspects they will be rolled out onto Waterloo-Chessington-Waterloo-Hampton Ct- Waterloo circuit first. All the Surrey locals (Waterloo P1-P4) services were altered in Dec not to inter work as much and this would self contain the units with the initial roll out
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Do they currently run as 8/10 car all day?
 
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