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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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Bletchleyite

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Sorry, I should have been clearer, my point was on watching a 331 suffer a delay of around ten minutes at Manchester Oxford Road because the train was completely packed and the conductor just couldn't get to and open and close the doors.

There are two proper solutions to that. One isn't going to be discussed on this thread because it already has been done to death. The other involves Northern getting enough funding to sort out the overcrowding issue by having sufficient rolling stock. There is little or no excuse for this for EMUs because there are loads of them spare.
 
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Llama

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But if they reconnected them they would?
There's nothing to 'reconnect'. There are no door panels in the back cab. There are door controls on the driver's desk but these could not be used by guards.
 

Bovverboy

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Sorry, I should have been clearer, my point was on watching a 331 suffer a delay of around ten minutes at Manchester Oxford Road because the train was completely packed and the conductor just couldn't get to and open and close the doors.

Yes, it was a train during the peaks but watching the conductor trying to squeeze around the train to open the doors causing a large number of delay minutes got me thinking about the door panels in the back cab.

There are two proper solutions to that. One isn't going to be discussed on this thread because it already has been done to death. The other involves Northern getting enough funding to sort out the overcrowding issue by having sufficient rolling stock. There is little or no excuse for this for EMUs because there are loads of them spare.

With the best will in the world, trains are going to be full sometimes. If something goes wrong at peak, and a gap builds up in front of a train, it's likely to be oversubscribed.
 

Bletchleyite

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With the best will in the world, trains are going to be full sometimes. If something goes wrong at peak, and a gap builds up in front of a train, it's likely to be oversubscribed.

Yes, but the kind of overcrowding that means the guard physically can't reach the controls (as opposed to a few people standing in each vestibule) should be the exception, not the norm as it presently is.
 

The Lad

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Sheffield was announced as having platforms too short for the two coach 195, there was an audible titter down the train, more worrying was 'doors closing' whilst at speed. They do seem to accelerate without too much fuss.
 

SteveM70

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Sorry, I should have been clearer, my point was on watching a 331 suffer a delay of around ten minutes at Manchester Oxford Road because the train was completely packed and the conductor just couldn't get to and open and close the doors.

Yes, it was a train during the peaks but watching the conductor trying to squeeze around the train to open the doors causing a large number of delay minutes got me thinking about the door panels in the back cab.

Exactly. The same thing happens on the Calder Valley, and it’s accentuated by the platform at Rochdale being on the opposite side to all the others, so the guard has to both cross the train from one side to the other and move down the carriage.

It’s an absolutely insane piece of design
 

Bletchleyite

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Exactly. The same thing happens on the Calder Valley, and it’s accentuated by the platform at Rochdale being on the opposite side to all the others, so the guard has to both cross the train from one side to the other and move down the carriage.

It’s an absolutely insane piece of design

To be fair the trains weren't designed for that, they were primarily designed for the driver to operate the doors.

(please don't turn this into a DOO debate - the above is simple fact)
 

Llama

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They need a door control station at every door rather than diagonally opposite doors.
 

Class195

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Exactly. The same thing happens on the Calder Valley, and it’s accentuated by the platform at Rochdale being on the opposite side to all the others, so the guard has to both cross the train from one side to the other and move down the carriage.

It’s an absolutely insane piece of design

Like I've said repeatedly in here before, Northern has gone for the cheap option and the lack of accessible door controls at the rear of the cab will inevitably see long delays in the peaks due to the guards unable to access them.

This isn't a problem that will go away either as passenger numbers increase.
 

SteveM70

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I imagine CAF and Northern designing these things was a bit like the episode of the Simpsons where Homer designs a car
 

craigybagel

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Let's see how the 196 and 197 turn out before blaming Northern

The fact that the WMR 196s are coming with powered cab doors (as opposed to the manual inward opening ones that guards don't have keys for on the Northern 195s) makes me think the plan is for working guards panels in the cabs of those units.

The drawings I've seen of the TfW 197s suggest they're going for the manual door option but as none have been completed yet that remains to be seen.
 

Killingworth

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Sheffield was announced as having platforms too short for the two coach 195, there was an audible titter down the train, more worrying was 'doors closing' whilst at speed. They do seem to accelerate without too much fuss.

Apparently the Hope Valley line will soon see 195s. However there's some doubt as to whether they'll fit In Platform 2c. That will be a shame if they don't as the track and buffers have just beeb replaced. A 158 fits.
 

Halish Railway

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Apparently the Hope Valley line will soon see 195s. However there's some doubt as to whether they'll fit In Platform 2c. That will be a shame if they don't as the track and buffers have just beeb replaced. A 158 fits.
Eh, whats going on? I thought these 195s were for express services! Firstly they were on the CLC stopping services and now they're rumored to begin operating the Marple and Hope valley stopping services?
 

mandub

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Apparently the Hope Valley line will soon see 195s. However there's some doubt as to whether they'll fit In Platform 2c. That will be a shame if they don't as the track and buffers have just beeb replaced. A 158 fits.

A 2 car 195 is 48M approx.
I don't know the exact length of 2C at Sheffield but wouldn't that fit OK?
 

Bovverboy

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Eh, whats going on? I thought these 195s were for express services! Firstly they were on the CLC stopping services and now they're rumored to begin operating the Marple and Hope valley stopping services?
I'm not aware that 195s have ever regularly worked CLC stoppers, but there has been evidence that they've done an occasional journey when something has gone wrong.
The semi-fast Liverpool to Manchester Airport via CLC semi-fast service makes additional calls at peak time, and one return journey even terminates at Oxford Road, but it's still the semi-fast, the stoppers are additional.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Eh, whats going on? I thought these 195s were for express services! Firstly they were on the CLC stopping services and now they're rumored to begin operating the Marple and Hope valley stopping services?

Strange how some describe the class 195 units as Pacer replacements, yet this posting seems to feel they are for express services.

What is the actual reality of the situation?
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Strange how some describe the class 195 units as Pacer replacements, yet this posting seems to feel they are for express services.

What is the actual reality of the situation?
Both. Express trains yet indirect Pacer replacements. They free up 156s/158s which can then go on routes to replace Pacers or at least free up 150s that will replace Pacers.
 

northernchris

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Strange how some describe the class 195 units as Pacer replacements, yet this posting seems to feel they are for express services.

What is the actual reality of the situation?

195s are replacing pacers, although not always directly. Units are being cascaded down, for example the 158s that worked Leeds - Nottingham / Lincoln are now being used on Rochdale - Blackburn / Clitheroe which in turn frees up 150s to work what the 142s used to

Presumably there must be additional 195s entering service next week to allow further 142s to be withdrawn
 

Fisherman80

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I cannot help but worry about the doors on these units. I had 195119 between Carnforth and Barrow yesterday and the doors yet again were playing up by not opening. The conductor was having a nightmare with them and she did brilliantly by keeping her cool.
You would think that these units would not have entered public service with the problems with the doors,as it's a safety critical item.
As someone mentioned before,it must be a bit unnerving when the train is travelling at speed and an announcement is made that the doors are opening.
I maybe going over the top here,but I think every single unit should be taken out of service and the door systems fixed immediately. Remember the problems when they introduced the 155s?
 

daveo

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I maybe going over the top here,but I think every single unit should be taken out of service and the door systems fixed immediately. Remember the problems when they introduced the 155s?


And replace them with what exactly???
 

Llama

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There are a lot more issues than just the doors, which are usually crew error when they shut without warning.

I've not heard any announcements that 'the doors are opening' and don't know of any circumstances where such an announcement would be caused to play. If the doors are not opening at stations then yes it is a big issue but in case of emergency such as a fire the emergency egresses are always available. I've had it where some doors won't activate when released, both on two coupled sets and on one vehicle of one unit intermittently and spuriously. Assuming it's not caused by the guard not operating the controls correctly (eg too quickly) there's nothing at all the crew can do about it other than deal with the passengers affected, hopefully realising what's happening before passengers get overcarried.
 

Killingworth

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Eh, whats going on? I thought these 195s were for express services! Firstly they were on the CLC stopping services and now they're rumored to begin operating the Marple and Hope valley stopping services?

At the start of the new franchise there was a strong suggestion that 331s and 195s were to be used for Northern Connect but things have moved on. They'll be allocated where works best. I'd expect a period of trial and error on that. And random unit generation as before, no doubt.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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At the start of the new franchise there was a strong suggestion that 331s and 195s were to be used for Northern Connect but things have moved on. They'll be allocated where works best. I'd expect a period of trial and error on that. And random unit generation as before, no doubt.

Will the existing Northern random unit generator find a new home in the coming franchise of Last Resort?
 

Halish Railway

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I cannot help but worry about the doors on these units. I had 195119 between Carnforth and Barrow yesterday and the doors yet again were playing up by not opening.
I agree, it is a bit annoying. At least we haven't got to the stage where they are going along at speed with one of the external beacons illuminated! Oh wait......

I maybe going over the top here,but I think every single unit should be taken out of service and the door systems fixed immediately. Remember the problems when they introduced the 155s?
There is a video on the dark depths of the internet showing train crew how to resolve door malfunctions.

EDIT: Here it is -
 

Fisherman80

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It's not like the doors are in the same category as a broken toilet, faulty public address system,wi fi unavailability,heating.....ect......if the doors are not doing the job,like opening/closing when they are commanded to,then to me that is a very serious safety issue.
As for replacing them? Well whatever is out there. I always thought it was a very very bad idea scrapping the Pacers ASAP until the main safety issues have been sorted. Let's get some of those HSTs on the Calder Valley to replace them
 

Llama

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It's only a serious safety issue if a door closes when it shouldn't (trapping someone) or opens when it shouldn't. If it doesn't close when it should do or doesn't open when it should do then it is an issue but not a dangerous one - more an inconvenience risk causing delays or potentially overcarried passengers (and all the indirect risks that may or may not entail).
 

superkev

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Two car 195 019 which I has as in store has just passed through Sowerby Bridge in service.
Perhaps the 14 or so stored are being put into service.
Edit. 005 just passed through Sowerby Bridge which along with 006 I had as one of the 2 Huddersfield trainers
K
 
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Llama

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There are seven more 195 diagrams and three more 331 diagrams from Monday coming so yes hopefully more are available.
 
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