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Class 710 LO

woodhouse122

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37608 dragged 710272 though Chesterfield lunchtime today on a worksop to Old Dalby working (ropey pic as i had the camera on the wrong setting ;) )
 
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SeaKing

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Yesterday 257 & 269 were parked by the underground line at Willesden Depot and another parked on the 2nd line in any ideas. Many thanks
 

20atthemagnet

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Provisionally put the 24th February in the diary for WA. Terms and conditions apply colours may vary subject to change in true railway fashion :D
 

Deepgreen

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Sorry if this has been mentioned already (not had time to read the 72 pages) but is the 710s' replacement of the 378s the first time a London suburban radial service has been shortened (5 20m cars to 4 20m cars) with new stock in recent times?
 

class717

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Sorry if this has been mentioned already (not had time to read the 72 pages) but is the 710s' replacement of the 378s the first time a London suburban radial service has been shortened (5 20m cars to 4 20m cars) with new stock in recent times?
There are 6 dual voltage 710/2s that have 5 cars specifically for the NLL and WLL, so no. Unit Numbers 710274-279.
 

Roger B

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But frequency's been increased from three to four per hour - so one additional carriage per hour. But that's not the full story ....

When you look at seats and standing capacity it's less clear - partly because I haven't been able to source detailed capacity data for 710s. Can anyone enlighten further?

Class 378 capacity:
272 Seats (including full seats, tip up and perch seats)
420 Maximum average load standing capacity (seated plus 25% crush)
840 Maximum full load standing capacity (seated plus 70% crush)
906 Theoretical crush standing capacity (seated not including perch seats) plus 7 standing customers per m2 in vestibule areas and 6 in all other )

Four-car class 710 capacity:
189 Seats, 489 Standing
 

bluegoblin7

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But also boosted in frequency.

Although I can see a need in the future to increase those 710s up to 5 coaches for Watford DC services to cope with extra growth

Eventually. As pointed out it isn’t that clear cut, but the answer to the original question, at face value, is yes. It was not a question of frequency or capacity, but purely train length.
 

simple simon

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Eventually. As pointed out it isn’t that clear cut, but the answer to the original question, at face value, is yes. It was not a question of frequency or capacity, but purely train length.

But the Euston - Watford route shares the fleet with the Goblin route - which would need a lot of work and creative solutions to be suitable for 5 coach trains!
 

greatkingrat

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But the Euston - Watford route shares the fleet with the Goblin route - which would need a lot of work and creative solutions to be suitable for 5 coach trains!

They don't all need to be converted to 5-car. There are already planned to be a mix of 4-car and 5-car 710s, so there is no reason why the number of 5-cars couldn't be increased in future if necessary.
 

20atthemagnet

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They don't all need to be converted to 5-car. There are already planned to be a mix of 4-car and 5-car 710s, so there is no reason why the number of 5-cars couldn't be increased in future if necessary.

Indeed. Not to mention...All 710 vehicles (even the 4car AC only West Anglia ones) are numbered to allow conversion into five cars at some point in their life....with DMS2 vehicles taking on 435XX numbers despite being the 4th coach of the consist....making provision for 434XX vehicles to be an additional MS coach.

On a side note, 121,120,119,117 all now carrying the latest software including coupling.
 
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D365

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But the Euston - Watford route shares the fleet with the Goblin route - which would need a lot of work and creative solutions to be suitable for 5 coach trains!

This is true, but the decision was made before the additional five car units were ordered for North/West London Lines. Since the Watford 710s are dual voltage in any case, if it is seen necessary to upgrade to five cars (I believe there's six 710s allocated to the Watford?), they could now operate in a pool with the NLL/WLL units instead.
 

hwl

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But also boosted in frequency.

Although I can see a need in the future to increase those 710s up to 5 coaches for Watford DC services to cope with extra growth
The power supply on the DC was/is fairly rotten hence 3tph 378 to 4tph 710 only sees a net increase of 2 coaches in service (but with a mixed service at the moment so +4 coaches (and the 710 are more energy efficient somewhat helped by being ~6.2tonnes /vehicle lighter). The DNO feeder replacement has come via HS2 which allow the opportunity for substation upgrades in the future.
 

Taunton

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The power supply on the DC was/is fairly rotten hence 3tph 378 to 4tph 710 only sees a net increase of 2 coaches in service.
However did this happen? The service from the 1920s to the 1960s was way beyond what it currently is, with big heavyweight 6-car (some 7-car) trains every few minutes at peak times, plus the Underground running in between all the way to Watford. DC Power demand nowadays must be a fraction of what it was.
 

class717

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Is Monday still the planned service entry date? If anyone has the diagrams for the 710 I would be eternally grateful
 

Class 170101

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However did this happen? The service from the 1920s to the 1960s was way beyond what it currently is, with big heavyweight 6-car (some 7-car) trains every few minutes at peak times, plus the Underground running in between all the way to Watford. DC Power demand nowadays must be a fraction of what it was.

Whilst the trains might be lighter and draw less power for moving them there are 'hotel' services on newer trains that didn't exist on older trains.
 

JonathanH

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I'm informed by a driver they will be in service from 11ish on Monday

I note that there are some unusual platform allocations shown in RTT at Enfield Town on Monday - the 1122 to Liverpool Street starts from platform 3 - does a cycle of Chingford / Cheshunt and ends platform 3 at Chingford at 1515. Maybe that is it - seems consistent

2U37 1122 Enfield Town to London Liverpool Street
2T48 1203 London Liverpool Street to Chingford
2T61 1240 Chingford to London Liverpool Street
2D34 1315 London Liverpool Street to Cheshunt
2D33 1401 Cheshunt to London Liverpool Street
2T70 1448 London Liverpool Street to Chingford
 
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20atthemagnet

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I note that there are some unusual platform allocations shown in RTT at Enfield Town on Monday - the 1122 to Liverpool Street starts from platform 3 - does a cycle of Chingford / Cheshunt and ends platform 3 at Chingford at 1515. Maybe that is it - seems consistent

2U37 1122 Enfield Town to London Liverpool Street
2T48 1203 London Liverpool Street to Chingford
2T61 1240 Chingford to London Liverpool Street
2D34 1315 London Liverpool Street to Cheshunt
2D33 1401 Cheshunt to London Liverpool Street
2T70 1448 London Liverpool Street to Chingford

This is a normal 317 diagram. So if it is it would do the whole thing. That train does

1122 ENF - LST
1203 LST - CHI
1240 CHI - LST
1315 LST - CHN
1401 CHN - LST
1448 LST - CHI
1640 CHI - LST
1715 LST - ENF
1806 ENF - LST
1848 LST - CHI
 
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BlyRF

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30 Jul 2018
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Are the timings in the above two post confined to be 710 timings to start from tomorrow?
 

20atthemagnet

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They are confirmed timings of a normal 315/317 unit diagram.

What I can tell you is 317/315s cant use platform 3 Enfield because of dispatch issues/visibility. Imagine if a train had DOO equipment onboard...
 

bluegoblin7

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Aside from the fact that 315s and 317s can and do use platform 3, including booked WTT workings that run most weekdays.
 

20atthemagnet

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Aside from the fact that 315s and 317s can and do use platform 3, including booked WTT workings that run most weekdays.

Not 8 cars ;) has been a local agreement for many moons. Which the 1122 is. Its inbound trip (1102 arrival is booked into 1) and runs ECS after the 1122 departs from 3. A 710 is booked into plat 3 at 0638....Wonder what all that is about..all available on RTT...
 
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bluegoblin7

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Fully aware of what you're hinting at for tomorrow, but platform workings (etc.) aren't the be all and end all of what is and isn't a 710, which as the insinuation.

26th November 2019, incidentally, and I alighted from a pair of 317s on platform 3. I'm sure there's other dates, but I'll leave my case there.

Agreement may be it doesn't happen, but it can and does whenever there's disruption.
 

20atthemagnet

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Fully aware of what you're hinting at for tomorrow, but platform workings (etc.) aren't the be all and end all of what is and isn't a 710, which as the insinuation.

26th November 2019, incidentally, and I alighted from a pair of 317s on platform 3. I'm sure there's other dates, but I'll leave my case there.

Agreement may be it doesn't happen, but it can and does whenever there's disruption.

I can assure you We do not and are not allowed to operate 8 car units from Platform 3. Alighting is fine. Departing is not. Hope these words help, whovevers interested 8-)
 

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