Dundee trip in roughly spring 2021

Hello. It won't be the first time I've done a thread like this. I've not been to Scotland yet but I'd rather have the plans in place ready for 2021 to get booking if that makes sense.

I would have been through Dundee to and from Edinburgh and Aberdeen whilst in Edinburgh hopefully this April. But I plan for Dundee to be my staying point in 2021 - the new Grand Union Stirling services are tempting but not frequent (no offence).

Now for Dundee, I'm likely to have a flexible ticket that can be used with different operators on the same line.

Journey wise, I'm thinking of a number of options by train - such as (from Oxford)...

11:10 changing at Newcastle.
11:10 changing at York.
12:10 changing at Newcastle.
12:10 changing at York.
13:10 changing at York.

Coming back, I'd probably change at Newcastle as I get longer if on time and the 10:35 or 13:35 Oxford trains start at Newcastle.

Now, I know people might think I'm mad / bonkers choosing CrossCountry over LNER because of largely the short Voyager trains compared to the 9-car Azumas but if there's one thing I'm learning it's not the amount of coaches but how busy they are.

Assuming 1S49 on Thursdays will be diagrammed as an HST (subject to availability) til the end of XC HST operation, I kind of think that's the best to opt for from York or Newcastle to Dundee (or Dundee to Newcastle) for 2 reasons... 1. Quiet Coach for a start, 2. A 7-coach HST is likely to be less full than a 9-car LNER Azuma from London and 3. 4 or 5 vice 7 isn't as disastrous as a 5 vice 9 Azuma.

Plus, LNER seem to be having issues such as reservations not working / being valid or too frequent 5 vice 9 workings on the Aberdeen and even Inverness routes.

CrossCountry on the other hand seem to provide me with a simple stress-free experience in recent times - such as 1. Seat reservations in operation, 2. An even more relaxing HST experience thanks to the Quiet Coach, 3. Reliable air-conditioning and heating on the Voyagers in particular (haven't taken much notice on their HST's) 4. Reliable trolley service and 5. XC not offering a choice of direction of travel stops me complaining about reverse formation which takes the pressure off.

I have said positive comments about LNER but the fact is with a mixture of 5, 9 and 10 coaches and reservations not being reliable is enough to make me switch to XC. On the XC Voyagers, if it's 4 or 5 coaches it doesn't matter (in terms of reservations) it doesn't matter as the 5th is unreserved.

Sorry if this confuses anyone but any thoughts?

Have you considered putting TPEx into your thinking?

By changing at Leeds and York you could fit in a short run with a TPE 68.

I'm aware of TPE but I may do a Nova 1 and 3 (or vice versa) later this year if I can. It's fine - I prefer the one change of train unless there's disruption of course. Thanks for the advice though.

If however there's engineering works where the XC services to Dundee run to and from Oxford then fine - a Voyager for 8 to 8 and a half hours I can live with !

Mitchell Hurd said:

Assuming 1S49 on Thursdays will be diagrammed as an HST (subject to availability) til the end of XC HST operation

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That is one hell of a big assumption.

Mitchell Hurd said:

A 7-coach HST is likely to be less full than a 9-car LNER Azuma from London

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I would have to disagree with that. They are both fairly busy trains.

Mitchell Hurd said:

Plus, LNER seem to be having issues such as reservations not working / being valid or too frequent 5 vice 9 workings on the Aberdeen and even Inverness routes.

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So do XC, the slightest hint of disruption in the South West 1S49 will be canned and restarted with a Voyager. The XC HST reservation is very hit and miss at the best of times.

Mitchell Hurd said:

4. Reliable trolley service

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Catering will close at between Berwick and Dunbar and will probably be static before that.

Going from Oxford to Dundee via York or Newcastle then changing to 1S45 seems like a more straightforward option - even if its restarted from Birmingham if stuck in the South West, it's still a 4 or 5-car Voyager which there's no issues with coaches missing (the 5th one is Coach B which is unreserved). Plus at least I can reach Dundee by around 19:30 if all is good.

Coming back, the 06:33 is probably the best to opt for regardless of the train type - if at the platform early enough I can get to my seat whether it's a 4-coach Voyager or an HST.

Depending on which day I'd come back, if I was to opt for the 06:33 on the day where it's booked for an HST, I can book either seat 48 (Coach D) or seat 37 (Coach F) - both seats are window view table seats on the HST's and Voyagers. C33 is a Window View on the HST but a Window on the Voyager so would be a last option.

If the 06:33 is a Voyager vice HST, either D48 or F37 will be forward facing if Coach F is at the Edinburgh end - if Coach F is at the north end then there'll be roughly a handful of unreserved seats.

The 06:33 I'd get off at Newcastle or Birmingham New Street. Newcastle where the Oxford train starts or Birmingham New Street where there's 2tph to Oxford.

I think I'm sorted by the sounds of it - I'll do LNER going up if money allows it.

Both 1S45 and 1V54 are very busy trains.

221129 said:

Both 1S45 and 1V54 are very busy trains.

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Right, thanks. I'll stick with 1V54 as it starts at Dundee - going up I'll have a think !