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What disciplinary action would most likely be taken against a driver for carrying a banned person?

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175mph

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Say if the driver was driving for one of the big boys such as First or Stagecoach, would they most likely take a zero tolerance approach to a driver letting on someone who is excluded from their buses for whatever reason ie persistent anti social behavior by instantly dismissing the offending driver, or would he or she most likely get a very stern warning? Or would it vary depending on the reason for the ban?
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Say if the driver was driving for one of the big boys such as First or Stagecoach, would they most likely take a zero tolerance approach to a driver letting on someone who is excluded from their buses for whatever reason ie persistent anti social behavior by instantly dismissing the offending driver, or would he or she most likely get a very stern warning? Or would it vary depending on the reason for the ban?
Death.....or a stern look. And anywhere in between :s
 
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I have never known the company I worked for ban anyone, even people who had assaulted drivers.

I was spat on by 2 youths and was told I was still expected to carry them. I never did mind.

Used to get an old lady who regularly urinated on the seats and we still had to carry her.
 

Darandio

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Say if the driver was driving for one of the big boys such as First or Stagecoach, would they most likely take a zero tolerance approach to a driver letting on someone who is excluded from their buses for whatever reason ie persistent anti social behavior by instantly dismissing the offending driver, or would he or she most likely get a very stern warning? Or would it vary depending on the reason for the ban?

How are most drivers supposed to know? Memorise a display of photos at the depot? Carry a book full of mugshots?
 

Pc86

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All the driver would have to say is that they didn't recognise the passenger and there is very little anyone could do. If its a busy route they could potentially see hundreds of faces a day.

How many stories come on the news of people travelling on friends/family's passports by mistake and them getting through passport control? Those people are checking photos against ID and normally have access to a database and still make mistakes.
 

Eyersey468

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It isn't often that someone gets banned but if they are there will be a staff notice go up at the depot/s affected with a picture of the person. There was someone banned from our buses for quite a long time for sexual offences.
 

Busaholic

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I'd have thought a driver had enough matters to think about without being expected to be au fait with which passengers were currently out of favour with the management, and dismissal for failing to recognise one such would be a step way too far, as any employment tribunal would surely concur. There might be the exceptional circumstance where a known individual was targeting buses in a certain area, or on a certain route, but then a poster should be displayed near the front of the bus with a mugshot of the person, his/her name, age, and prohibition details. Where I live in Penzance the local Tesco Express and Co-Op have such posters exhibited in their windows, banning certain activities in and around their stores e.g.begging/sitting outside or nearby, also entering the stores. Doesn't always work, though!
 

delt1c

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How are most drivers supposed to know? Memorise a display of photos at the depot? Carry a book full of mugshots?
Fully agree, expecting drivers to know all banned passengers is crazy, drivers are there to drive and collect fares
 

Bletchleyite

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Say if the driver was driving for one of the big boys such as First or Stagecoach, would they most likely take a zero tolerance approach to a driver letting on someone who is excluded from their buses for whatever reason ie persistent anti social behavior by instantly dismissing the offending driver, or would he or she most likely get a very stern warning? Or would it vary depending on the reason for the ban?

I'd have thought none. Drivers are busy and cannot be expected to recognise someone from a photo. Some people are terrible at recognising people anyway - prosopagnosia (Google it) is not a bar to being a bus driver. If it was found they were letting them on deliberately that might be a different matter, on the other hand.
 

Bletchleyite

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Where I live in Penzance the local Tesco Express and Co-Op have such posters exhibited in their windows, banning certain activities in and around their stores e.g.begging/sitting outside or nearby, also entering the stores. Doesn't always work, though!

And has no legal effect unless actually on their land, except if some form of injunction is in place.
 

philthetube

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As a driver I have banned people from my bus, never had an issue enforcing it though, it is quite satisfying turning away a scroat who I have previously caught vandalising my coach
 

175mph

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As a driver I have banned people from my bus, never had an issue enforcing it though, it is quite satisfying turning away a scroat who I have previously caught vandalising my coach
I bet you got even more pleasure by simply driving straight past them instead of stopping for them when they were the only ones waiting at a roadside stop. :D
 

beermaddavep

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I'd have thought none. Drivers are busy and cannot be expected to recognise someone from a photo. Some people are terrible at recognising people anyway - prosopagnosia (Google it) is not a bar to being a bus driver. If it was found they were letting them on deliberately that might be a different matter, on the other hand.

O/T Wow- I had no idea there was a name, or rather more importantly any understanding of this condition- it's something I have struggled with all my life, even as a child! People think I am so rude, not remembering them even after meeting them numerous times, walking past them in the street, bars etc. At least I now know I'm not uniquely afflicted lol
 

Busaholic

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O/T Wow- I had no idea there was a name, or rather more importantly any understanding of this condition- it's something I have struggled with all my life, even as a child! People think I am so rude, not remembering them even after meeting them numerous times, walking past them in the street, bars etc. At least I now know I'm not uniquely afflicted lol
There's a quite well-known book by Oliver Sachs called ''The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat'' which came out in about 1990 which is about some of the most severe cases he treated, including the one which lends its title to the book. It's a terribly sad , but fascinating, read in many ways, and I'd thoroughly commend it to you or anyone suffering in even the slightest way from the condition.
 

Busaholic

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And has no legal effect unless actually on their land, except if some form of injunction is in place.
There is: the notice is under the auspices of the Devon and Cornwall police and cites the legal stuff. As the notice I'm talking about would be on the bus, which is the property of the company running it, and would refer purely to the bus, it wouldn't need all the legal gubbins, but might serve its purpose.
 

beermaddavep

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There's a quite well-known book by Oliver Sachs called ''The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat'' which came out in about 1990 which is about some of the most severe cases he treated, including the one which lends its title to the book. It's a terribly sad , but fascinating, read in many ways, and I'd thoroughly commend it to you or anyone suffering in even the slightest way from the condition.

Thanks, I'll look that up for certain! :)
 

Bletchleyite

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O/T Wow- I had no idea there was a name, or rather more importantly any understanding of this condition- it's something I have struggled with all my life, even as a child! People think I am so rude, not remembering them even after meeting them numerous times, walking past them in the street, bars etc. At least I now know I'm not uniquely afflicted lol

Duncan Bannatyne is one very famous person who is so afflicted, he seems to have done well enough in business.

I am too. I recognise people by attributes other than their face - body shape, typical clothing (which throws me off if I see someone out of context e.g. someone I work with outside of work), hair colour/style, if they have a beard/glasses or not etc. It is more than a little bit of a nuisance.

I've tended to mention this in other places in discussions about blanking faces out, which is not very effective in causing people like me or you not to recognise someone in a photo because we don't use the face to recognise them.
 

Bletchleyite

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There is: the notice is under the auspices of the Devon and Cornwall police and cites the legal stuff. As the notice I'm talking about would be on the bus, which is the property of the company running it, and would refer purely to the bus, it wouldn't need all the legal gubbins, but might serve its purpose.

We had gone off on an aside about e.g. banning begging outside a Tesco, which if on public land would require an injunction.

Banning someone from private property (e.g. a bus) does not require any due process - that you don't want them there makes them a trespasser, though if you want to make their presence a criminal rather than civil matter an injunction would be needed. One of the MK shopping centres has such an injunction against cycling/skateboarding on their property which was causing some damage and danger to shoppers and this is prominently displayed at the entrances. The only basis on which you can't ban someone from private property is based on a protected characteristic in law e.g. race.
 

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As a driver I recall a 'tuechter' wifey that we'd encounter pretty much daily either as a passenger or else cycling on a bike wobbling precariously all over the place at 2mph which often ended up with us crawling along behind in 1st gear until a wide and long enough gap could be found to pass her.

She dressed near enough the same all year round in jumper and tweed jacket but it was the overpowering smell which hit you, if she was on the bus it was cab window wide open, on the bike cab window firmly shut!

Other passengers would comment on the smell so I'd have thought we'd be within our rights to refuse her carriage but apparently management had said we couldn't so that was that...
 

Busaholic

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We had gone off on an aside about e.g. banning begging outside a Tesco, which if on public land would require an injunction.

Banning someone from private property (e.g. a bus) does not require any due process - that you don't want them there makes them a trespasser, though if you want to make their presence a criminal rather than civil matter an injunction would be needed. One of the MK shopping centres has such an injunction against cycling/skateboarding on their property which was causing some damage and danger to shoppers and this is prominently displayed at the entrances. The only basis on which you can't ban someone from private property is based on a protected characteristic in law e.g. race.
I think you're a bit behind the curve on these matters. Since the introduction of ASBOs there are any number of civil orders which can be brought, the breach of which becomes a criminal matter. The LIBERTY pressure group is quite exercised about all this, as a visit to their website will confirm. In some towns, like my own home one, there is a multi-disciplinary team, in name anyway, dedicated to tackling antisocial disorder, with an 'officer' in uniform funded for a limited period (recently extended) to provide public reassurance, provide 'intelligence' on possible offenders and generally monitor the situation.
 

TheWalrus

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I don’t think a driver would get disciplined at all for that. Firstly someone would have to report that they had carried the person and would have to know they are banned. The driver may not be aware of the ban, or absolutely certain it is the person who is banned when boarding. I think disciplinary action would be extreme in this circumstance.
 

175mph

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I don’t think a driver would get disciplined at all for that. Firstly someone would have to report that they had carried the person and would have to know they are banned. The driver may not be aware of the ban, or absolutely certain it is the person who is banned when boarding. I think disciplinary action would be extreme in this circumstance.
One driver told me that other drivers have been caught carrying banned people because of random checks of the CCTV carried out by the manager.
 

L401CJF

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We have 1 guy banned from our buses, easily recognisable and everybody knows him. I think for sexual offences. He only tries to board at one same stop and most people know to refuse him (he always steps off as soon as anybody says something to him as he knows he isnt allowed on but tries anyway). I assume people let him on occasionally not knowing, but at the end of the day how are management ever going to find out somebody let him travel unless he behaved inapropriatley toward passengers and a complaint goes in?

Management arn't going to trawl through hours and hours of cameras to see if anybody has let him on each day, and even if they did as said earlier the driver would just claim no knowledge. No action would be taken, and I work for a very strict company.

On the subject of refusing travel, our drivers are allowed to refuse travel based on personal hygene - ie if somebody stinks because they havn't washed for months, even people that stink of cannabis etc, on the basis of the comfort of other passengers. This happens quite often particularly with regular 'Smellys' which drivers get to know over time. A few years back there was an incident in work in which a female driver refused travel to a guy in his 20s because he smelt strongly of cannabis. The man filmed her and gave her a load of abuse which he then posted to the companies facebook page (clever move to film yourself verbally assaulting a driver then posting it straight to the company) sparking a huge response from followers of the page in the drivers favour. He commented saying he never did cannabis and he shouldnt have been kicked off, but as pointed out by somebody in the comments his profile photo was of him smoking a huge (and i mean huge) joint. Once pointed out the post got swiftly removed.

The whole company was aware of the incident (talk of the canteen all over) and the driver was pulled in by management - not for discipline, but to report the verbal assault. No action was taken against her.
 

L401CJF

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One driver told me that other drivers have been caught carrying banned people because of random checks of the CCTV carried out by the manager.

Really?

I find that difficult to believe

Camera trawling is common, and often they find reason to pull drivers in for something they see when they have been looking through the footage for something else and stumbled across it on the way. Quite possible a driver could have been pulled in for letting banned people onboard, but surely wouldn't be disciplined? Presumably just told they are banned and shouldn't let them on - driver could easily claim no knowledge.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Camera trawling is common, and often they find reason to pull drivers in for something they see when they have been looking through the footage for something else and stumbled across it on the way. Quite possible a driver could have been pulled in for letting banned people onboard, but surely wouldn't be disciplined? Presumably just told they are banned and shouldn't let them on - driver could easily claim no knowledge.

Sorry - I should clarify.

If they are checking for something else (e.g. a passenger has made an unrelated complaint) and then observes any sort of transgression such as carrying a "prohibited passenger", then that is one thing. They will obviously spend time investigating complaints and that will involve trawling through footage.

What I find difficult to believe is that a manager is randomly checking CCTV to see if a driver is carrying prohibited passengers.
 

L401CJF

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Sorry - I should clarify.

If they are checking for something else (e.g. a passenger has made an unrelated complaint) and then observes any sort of transgression such as carrying a "prohibited passenger", then that is one thing. They will obviously spend time investigating complaints and that will involve trawling through footage.

What I find difficult to believe is that a manager is randomly checking CCTV to see if a driver is carrying prohibited passengers.

It has been known in the past when the cameras first came in, but now where I work they have to fill about 6000 forms in everytime they need to download CCTV explaining why, logging reference numbers, etc etc, because there will be children in the footage or something along those lines. As far as I know camera trawling with no actual reason (such as incident to asses) isn't allowed anymore.
 

175mph

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It has been known in the past when the cameras first came in, but now where I work they have to fill about 6000 forms in everytime they need to download CCTV explaining why, logging reference numbers, etc etc, because there will be children in the footage or something along those lines. As far as I know camera trawling with no actual reason (such as incident to asses) isn't allowed anymore.
Is that not allowed anymore due to the 2018 changes to the data protection laws?
 
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