Metropolitan Line Extension (MLX/Croxley Rail Link)

Bletchleyite · 25 Jan 2018

I think I agree with him that there is no case for the London taxpayer to pay any of the cost. It's primarily to benefit Herts, so Herts should pay the full cost if they want it.

I'm not convinced there is really any point in it at all, personally. The need for it is very niche - Rickmansworth to (somewhere between MKC and Harrow) commuters and the likes. Go much further north or much nearer London and travelling via Euston Square/Euston is going to make more sense. (The existing line is fine if you're *actually* going to Watford).

RailUK Forums

DarloRich · 25 Jan 2018

Tory MP in Labour Mayor criticism shocker! It is all part of the game to shift the funding from one set of books to another. Both sides want the extension as long as the other pays for it.

Worth noting Richard Harrington MP has a majority of 2092.

matt_world2004 · 25 Jan 2018

Its not hust the 73 million shortfall it is the fact that the assessors have only put a 50% probability that costs will not rise further. London reconnections had sn excellent article on the problems of the MLX

matt_world2004 · 25 Jan 2018

www.londonreconnections.com/2017/the-metropolitan-line-extension-deadline-day/

matt_world2004 · 25 Jan 2018

One way toincrease the BCR is by having it as a mixed Chilterns/Underground line with it giving Chiltern Rail the opportunity to serve destinations north of WFJ from the west

Bletchleyite · 25 Jan 2018

matt_world2004 said:
One way toincrease the BCR is by having it as a mixed Chilterns/Underground line with it giving Chiltern Rail the opportunity to serve destinations north of WFJ from the west

That's what East West Rail is for, and unlike this it wouldn't get in the way on the WCML nor have to cross the fasts on the level.

DarloRich · 25 Jan 2018

matt_world2004 said:
One way toincrease the BCR is by having it as a mixed Chilterns/Underground line with it giving Chiltern Rail the opportunity to serve destinations north of WFJ from the west

how is that going to work?

matt_world2004 said:
www.londonreconnections.com/2017/the-metropolitan-line-extension-deadline-day/

thanks - i dint know the figures were P50! wow.

matt_world2004 · 25 Jan 2018

DarloRich said:
how is that going to work

Wouldnt more people use it if the link also served stations west of Amersham?

mr_jrt · 25 Jan 2018

The benefits to Londoners were more along the lines of access to Watford from the Met mainline, rather than access to London from Watford, because most passengers from Watford heading to London would probably head to the Junction to catch the far faster NR services from there.

...and London has had something to show for the extension, the additional S8 train bought for it.

Dstock7080 · 25 Jan 2018

mr_jrt said:
...and London has had something to show for the extension, the additional S8 train bought for it.

It was an additional S7 built (21567/68), this allows S7+1 21327/28 to remain on the Metropolitan as the additional train. [/pedant]

wildcard · 25 Jan 2018

Bletchleyite said:
That's what East West Rail is for, and unlike this it wouldn't get in the way on the WCML nor have to cross the fasts on the level.

I think the idea was a Watford Junction to Aylesbury service - not part of the plan . It would also give Amersham commuters a straight ride to the Watford business district along Clarendon Road or the Croxley Business park and convey their shoppers to Watford high Street.

yorkie · 28 Jan 2018

This thread is to discuss the Metropolitan Line Extension project.

If anyone wishes to discuss ideas for linking the St Albans Abbey Line, please use the thread: My idea for a Cassiobridge to Watford Junction line connected by flyover to St Albans Abbey Line

If anyone wishes to discuss ideas for linking the St Albans Abbey Line, please use the thread: Discussion of pros and cons of guided busways as Sadiq Kahn suggests London could get one
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...sts-london-could-get-one.159998/#post-3307127
If anyone spots someone going off-topic and wishes to respond to it, or if anyone wants to go off on a tangent, you are welcome to do so but please ensure that you first create a new thread (if there isn't already an existing thread) or post in a suitably titled thread in the correct forum, to continue discussing the other topic there. It is much easier if people do this themselves, as it has taken me 25 minutes to split these threads, it also reduces the chances of me making a mistake when I do split the threads, as it is a difficult task to complete.

Many thanks for your understanding

mr_jrt · 31 Jan 2018

The plot thickens...

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...met-line-extension-to-still-go-ahead/?ref=rss

The Mayor of Watford has revealed an extra £40million could be needed for the Met Line Extension to still go ahead.

During a Watford Borough Council meeting at the town hall last night, Dorothy Thornhill announced extra money would need to be coughed up for five miles of track on an existing disused railway line – where all the preparatory works have already been done.

Last Thursday Mayor of London Sadiq Khan told MP Richard Harrington that TfL were withdrawing from building the Met Line Extension despite the £73million shortfall being raised to help cushion “risks and overspends”.

However, Mayor Thornhill says she has been told another “incredulous” £40 million could be required to fully cover the risk.

She said: “I am left feeling that despite the rhetoric coming from the Mayor’s office we are paying the price for two political decisions.

rebmcr · 31 Jan 2018

mr_jrt said:
The plot thickens...

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...met-line-extension-to-still-go-ahead/?ref=rss

Something smells like spin here, but I can't figure out why the Mayoral office hasn't commented with a rebuff.

Busaholic · 31 Jan 2018

The mayor needs to understand the difference between the word 'incredulous' and the one she presumably actually meant to use, 'incredible'.

DerekC · 27 Jan 2020

Is the Croxley Link now officially dead?

Bald Rick · 27 Jan 2020

DerekC said:
Is the Croxley Link now officially dead?

Paused indefinitely, I’d say.

PeterC · 28 Jan 2020

Bletchleyite said:
I think I agree with him that there is no case for the London taxpayer to pay any of the cost. It's primarily to benefit Herts, so Herts should pay the full cost if they want it.

I'm not convinced there is really any point in it at all, personally. The need for it is very niche - Rickmansworth to (somewhere between MKC and Harrow) commuters and the likes. Go much further north or much nearer London and travelling via Euston Square/Euston is going to make more sense. (The existing line is fine if you're *actually* going to Watford).

The existing line dumps you in a housing estate on the wrong side of Cassiobury Park.

So many people here don't seem to grasp that Watford is a major destination in its own right for employment and shopping with huge traffic problems in the morning and evening peaks. While I agree that the cost shouldn't fall on London the extension is needed.

simple simon · 11 Feb 2020

Closing the existing station will cause real hardship to local people, including school children. There is a need for a solution that retains this station.

LUYMun · 11 Feb 2020

simple simon said:
Closing the existing station will cause real hardship to local people, including school children. There is a need for a solution that retains this station.

Rather than having the extension starting from Croxley and cutting off Watford, why not start the extension from Watford, where trains travelling from London could turn around at Watford and head south-eastwards via the planned route and into Watford Junction? (You could also rename Watford to "Cassiobury Park" as an option).

Nym · 12 Feb 2020

simple simon said:
Closing the existing station will cause real hardship to local people, including school children. There is a need for a solution that retains this station.

This is being implemented by TfL and HCC, it's called, "Do nothing and hope people don't notice the sunk cost."

mr_jrt · 15 Feb 2020

Great hardship? Pull the other one. It would be a 10-odd minute walk to Cassiobridge Station. If the youth of today can't handle that then heaven help us all.

simple simon · 15 Feb 2020

mr_jrt said:
Great hardship? Pull the other one. It would be a 10-odd minute walk to Cassiobridge Station. If the youth of today can't handle that then heaven help us all.

ah but what if the walk is already 10+ minutes? oh and what about older people, not just the youth?

it is perhaps too late now but running the Chesham service to the old station (instead of Chalfont & Latimer) would have offered a solution, perhaps with a sub-fleet of 4 car S Stocks. Passengers wanting the old station would change at Croxley, with perhaps a few rush hour through trains to / from London.

After all, it was part of the plan for the old station to be retained for train stabling, so its not as if the railway was going to cease using any of the older route (apart from the one station building).

mr_jrt · 16 Feb 2020

Effectively half of the existing station's catchment area is Cassiobury Park. The other half would have at most, a 15 minute walk to Cassiobridge Station if they live next to the existing one, and quickly breaking even as you move away from it. The walk between the existing station and Watford Boys is 7 minutes, so effectively moving their service to Cassiobridge would be making their walk 7-8 minutes longer. Given we don't already have train stations every 5 minutes, I'm sure older people will be able to cope as they do everywhere else in the town, let alone the country where the nearest station is now often many tens of miles away.

I'm firmly of the opinion that all the whining about closing the existing station is purely down to the effect on house values for those next to it, because I can't believe that there could be anyone so lazy as to complain so vocally about a 15 minute walk to a tube station that many would give their front teeth to be that close to, especially as it would give them much better connections to the town centre and the Junction too.

Don't get me wrong, my ideal situation would have been for the line to have been extended as originally intended when the branch was first built - along to Watford Central Station, then projected underneath Clarendon Road to Watford Junction and ultimately rising up to take over the Abbey branch...but what was proposed was a reasonable compromise that I fully support.

simple simon · 16 Feb 2020

I can see how those schoolchildren who walk will be doubled in length will be 'right royally peeved'. Likewise anyone else who finds 15 - 20 minutes a day added to their overall travel time.

Its not actually an "am I physically capable?" issue... its one of time management. Arriving home 10 minutes later, when you normally need to change clothing and have a quick bite to eat and then dash off to an after school / after work activity, is enough to disrupt existing time schedules.

Wolfie · 16 Feb 2020

simple simon said:
I can see how those schoolchildren who walk will be doubled in length will be 'right royally peeved'. Likewise anyone else who finds 15 - 20 minutes a day added to their overall travel time.

Its not actually an "am I physically capable?" issue... its one of time management. Arriving home 10 minutes later, when you normally need to change clothing and have a quick bite to eat and then dash off to an after school / after work activity, is enough to disrupt existing time schedules.

Lots of people find that changes, of whatever kind, impact on their extant schedules. Frankly that is not a reason to oppose change. Indeed, it is s good life lesson for those kids.

Samuel88 · 17 Feb 2020

Don’t forget Watford has become something of a tourist hotspot with the opening of the W.B Studios, the amount of times those said tourists have taken the Met line to Watford expecting a shuttle bus to be available only to be told it’s at least a half hour walk to the junction, I think it’s at least time the station name is changed, perhaps to Watford Cassiobury Park...

Deerfold · 18 Feb 2020

Samuel88 said:
Don’t forget Watford has become something of a tourist hotspot with the opening of the W.B Studios, the amount of times those said tourists have taken the Met line to Watford expecting a shuttle bus to be available only to be told it’s at least a half hour walk to the junction, I think it’s at least time the station name is changed, perhaps to Watford Cassiobury Park...

But people going to the studios are told to get a Train to Watford Junction, not Watford. Why do you think changing its name would help?

rebmcr · 18 Feb 2020

Deerfold said:
But people going to the studios are told to get a Train to Watford Junction, not Watford. Why do you think changing its name would help?

You must have little experience of people if you expect they'll do what they're told.

geoffk · 18 Feb 2020

I think probably having a station just called "Watford" is unhelpful to visitors, especially as other stations in the town have a suffix. The Met line was originally intended to extend to the High Street and what became the Grange Furniture Store would have been the station building. Now a pub, I think.

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