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How have the UK's least-liked trains given such reliable service?

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Islineclear3_1

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I suspect those boarding freezing-cold[1] LNR 319s in the morning would give their eye teeth for a Voyager. (What *are* eye teeth? :) )

[1] Some of the sets have failed heating, but to fix it requires the floor to be lifted, and LNR have such little slack in their fleet that doing that isn't viable.

I'll swap you for Networkers as some of these have heating on full blast which also isn't good on a train full and standing

But of course, Networkers won't work in your neck of the woods so guess you'll have to keep those 319s... ;)
 
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mmh

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See I get that for pacers but am baffled by it when it comes to Voyagers. In my opinion when Voyagers aren't crowded (which admittedly isn't often) they are some of the most pleasant trains in the country to travel on. Certainly take one over an 80x. Besides, all trains seem awful when they're crowded.

I've long held that outside enthusiast circles there's never been the mass hatred of Voyagers some like to think exists. They're comfortable, despite their age they still feel relatively modern and they have good passenger facilities.

I'm hard pushed to think of a better standard class experience than the all-table coach on the West Coast Voyagers.
 

mmh

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I'll swap you for Networkers as some of these have heating on full blast which also isn't good on a train full and standing

But of course, Networkers won't work in your neck of the woods so guess you'll have to keep those 319s... ;)

Oh my, you've brought back horrible memories of commuting on 465/466s. Really unpleasant saunas in the winter months (and sometimes the summer too!)
 

Islineclear3_1

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I've long held that outside enthusiast circles there's never been the mass hatred of Voyagers some like to think exists. They're comfortable, despite their age they still feel relatively modern and they have good passenger facilities.

I'm hard pushed to think of a better standard class experience than the all-table coach on the West Coast Voyagers.

Speaking from a passenger point of view, I would rather travel on a pacer with fresh air than a toilet-stinking voyager...
 
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I'm hard pushed to think of a better standard class experience than the all-table coach on the West Coast Voyagers.

Completely agree, the only competition may be from the Meridians, which are just less cramped Voyagers in my view. I can't imagine EMR passengers will be pleased with the downgrade in quality likely to come when Hitachi stock replaces them. Then again nobody seems as bothered as me at the downgrade in quality from HSTs and Mk4s to 80xs.
 

TheEdge

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Do you think we'd still be having this conversation if:

A: Pacers didn't exist

No, we'd probably be lamenting the Beeching 2 closures in the 1980s when BR had to admit large numbers of branch lines were hemorrhaging money, made no financial sense to keep running and were closed. I know people hate 153s and Pacers but it cannot be understated how many small lines they saved.

B: Voyagers were 8 carriages long and didn't smell of sewage.

No, beyond the odd person not liking the layout they'd just be another perfectly functional train plying their trade across the network. See the 222s for more information.
 

mmh

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Speaking from a passenger point of view, I would rather travel on a pacer with fresh air than a toilet-stinking voyager...

I suspect that's a very minority view. Imagine if the two could run in multiple and a train appeared formed of a Voyager coupled to a Pacer. Which do you think would fill first? Likewise if a Voyager substituted for a Pacer on some Northern commuter time train. There wouldn't be many voices grumbling about where their Pacer was!

But of course we're not comparing like with like there. The Voyagers should be compared against other 125mph DMUs, 180s and 222s and perhaps 80x.
 

talltim

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I've long held that outside enthusiast circles there's never been the mass hatred of Voyagers some like to think exists. They're comfortable, despite their age they still feel relatively modern and they have good passenger facilities.

I'm hard pushed to think of a better standard class experience than the all-table coach on the West Coast Voyagers.
I assume you travel on the Virgin/AdvensisAccucentreWhatever its called ones rather than XC ones?
 

43096

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No, we'd probably be lamenting the Beeching 2 closures in the 1980s when BR had to admit large numbers of branch lines were hemorrhaging money, made no financial sense to keep running and were closed. I know people hate 153s and Pacers but it cannot be understated how many small lines they saved.
Which small lines did the Pacers save, then, because by the time they were built Serpell had been seen off and in any case the bulk of the Pacers went to metropolitan areas across the north. The batch sent to work West Country branches were an unmitigated disaster, so certainly didn’t save them!
 

Halish Railway

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Ha,I remember Voyagers when they were brand new. Very problematic!
I saw one limping into Stafford on one engine,that finally gave up the ghost in the platform!
The driver getting out of his cab already 70 late swearing what a load of absolute rubbish lol.
They do seem to be pretty reliable now though.
I just dont see them in an enthusiastic way myself tbh.
Too cramped and too short!
Just like toy trains tbh.
They wont have the same following as Pacers though when they go!
Hope that the CAFs ordered in recent years settle in like how the Voyagers have (Mind you, they do seem equally unpopular with enthusiasts at the moment).

On the topic of unpopular trains - The Northern Dusty Bins! When these were refurbished 3 or 4 they were excellent and as good as a 333, Now they're horrible as they've been left to rot away. Now they're dirty, cold and in a lot of cases have broken hussle alarms (i.e. the doors close without any alarm), door close buttons, announcements and toilets.
 
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mmh

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I assume you travel on the Virgin/AdvensisAccucentreWhatever its called ones rather than XC ones?

Yes, it's very rare I've been on a Cross Country one. But if there's a difference between them that's not the train's fault, they started life identical and other than a layout change in one carriage the West Coast ones have had no visible changes since they were new.
 

Halish Railway

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Yes, it's very rare I've been on a Cross Country one. But if there's a difference between them that's not the train's fault, they started life identical and other than a layout change in one carriage the West Coast ones have had no visible changes since they were new.
First class on the West Coast ones had leather seats fitted.
 
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Yes, it's very rare I've been on a Cross Country one. But if there's a difference between them that's not the train's fault, they started life identical and other than a layout change in one carriage the West Coast ones have had no visible changes since they were new.

I'm the opposite, I've only been on the West Coast sets a handful of times, but semi regularly use the XC ones. No doubt the West Coast ones are better, but that's not to say the XC ones are awful, at least in my opinion.
 

ed1971

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Before the 150/1s my least liked trains were Class 104s, Class 304s and 504s with their dingy lighting and dark wooden stained interiors. The ride quality on all of them was bad. The 104s blew diesel fumes into the interiors and the seat cushions on these 304s and 504s acted as part of the suspension!
 

Master29

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The MML Meridians don’t have same bad reputation as the Voyagers, and in fact the West Coast Voyagers don’t get slagged off like the XC ones.

Although the Voyager interior design isn’t wonderful on account of the poor space utilisation and cramped seating, as well as the toilet smells, the biggest issue seems to be the overcrowding on XC combined with the state then XC ones have been allowed to get in to through lack of care.
Absolutely. The Voyagers aren't mechanically poor, just the way they're laid out plus a few issues. Their acceleration is excellent ( Yes, I know they have a 750hp lump underneath) and if you get a good window seat the viewing is excellent imo. As you say the XC ones do need a refurbishing though.
 

hooverboy

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Completely agree, the only competition may be from the Meridians, which are just less cramped Voyagers in my view. I can't imagine EMR passengers will be pleased with the downgrade in quality likely to come when Hitachi stock replaces them. Then again nobody seems as bothered as me at the downgrade in quality from HSTs and Mk4s to 80xs.
I think EMR passengers will be satisfied enough with extra seating, as full and standing is the default position on most current trains, especially the voyagers.
 

ic31420

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Same here, 150s are better and if working in multiple, 150/2s allow you to walk the whole length of the train as they have gangways.

Do you spend the journey walking back and forth up and down a train? Personally I find a seat and sit. While nice to have and useful for staff i don't see the obsession with gangways.

Speaking from a passenger point of view, I would rather travel on a pacer with fresh air than a toilet-stinking voyager...

I don't really get the complaints about the big smell, I get a whiff sometimes boarding but then it's quickly forgotten about.

Still it's poor that it's not been sorted after all this time.

Your upper canine's Sir... The pointy one's between your incisors and molars. :D

I thought it was hind teeth, those right at the back and hard to get out. Hence the saying I'd give my hind teeth for xyz.
 

greatvoyager

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Do you spend the journey walking back and forth up and down a train? Personally I find a seat and sit. While nice to have and useful for staff i don't see the obsession with gangways.
No, but I've been on many a train on the Riviera lime where I've got on at one end and had to walk the entire length of a train to find a seat.
 

Neptune

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Do you spend the journey walking back and forth up and down a train? Personally I find a seat and sit. While nice to have and useful for staff i don't see the obsession with gangways.

Thankyou. I thought it was just me who couldn’t understand the obsession people have with gangwayed stock on here.

From my 20+ years on the railway I note that passengers do indeed board and sit and not wander up and down happy they can walk constantly between sets.
 

Wolfie

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Completely agree, the only competition may be from the Meridians, which are just less cramped Voyagers in my view. I can't imagine EMR passengers will be pleased with the downgrade in quality likely to come when Hitachi stock replaces them. Then again nobody seems as bothered as me at the downgrade in quality from HSTs and Mk4s to 80xs.
The standard class seats in Meridians are dire.
 

mmh

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First class on the West Coast ones had leather seats fitted.

Ah, I'd forgotten about that, it's a long long time since I was in first class on one. As an aside, a leather seat woul
Really? The legroom on 150s is ridiculous

As with any train it depends on how many seats you cram in them. I was genuinely amazed, in a bad way, when I first saw a 2+3 airline layout on a 150 a few years ago. Horrendous idea. Was that an original layout for them? I only seem to remember them having mostly bays of 4 and a few airline at the ends of carriages when they were young.

I know they replaced units like 101s which had 3+2, but they weren't anywhere near as cramped for legroom.
 
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