Passenger jumped onto tracks...

CaptainHaddock · 17 Feb 2020

Saperstein said:
And a few in the UK, obviously not on high speed lines though!

I’m sure there’s a foot crossing (or was?) at Selby.

The most shocking behaviour I’ve seen (no pun intended) has been people thinking it’s ok to nip across the line in 3rd rail electrified areas!

Saperstein.

Actually there's a succession of public footpaths that cross 4 tracks of the ECML just south of Biggleswade, where the line speed is over 100mph!. The one on my link is light-controlled but I'm pretty sure some of the others are just open for anyone to access.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0...4!1s6zBAz13AT_DbO67k-Qqhtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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ainsworth74 · 17 Feb 2020

CaptainHaddock said:
Actually there's a succession of public footpaths that cross 4 tracks of the ECML just south of Biggleswade, where the line speed is over 100mph!. The one on my link is light-controlled but I'm pretty sure some of the others are just open for anyone to access.

There's some between Thirsk and Northallerton as well where the line speed on the fasts is 125mph. Nothing controlling access to those crossings other than I think stiles to climb over.

Robertj21a · 17 Feb 2020

This is such a common practice in many other countries that it would be surprising if it didn't become fairly routine in the UK.

mmh · 17 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Tell that to those who installed signs at many European stations as the practice has become deprecated in western Europe (due to higher speeds, mainly), then.

I'm talking about Britain. Only having used three trains in outside Britain and the US in my life I'm not qualified to have an opinion on what people do or don't do in Europe. The second part of my post, conveniently stripped, is where I explained how I think it must be perfectly clear to people new to Britain without signs.

aye2beeviasea · 17 Feb 2020

CaptainHaddock said:
Actually there's a succession of public footpaths that cross 4 tracks of the ECML just south of Biggleswade, where the line speed is over 100mph!. The one on my link is light-controlled but I'm pretty sure some of the others are just open for anyone to access.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0...4!1s6zBAz13AT_DbO67k-Qqhtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Why does the sign say to open both gates? If I was a pedestrian and there were no vehicles waiting to cross I don't think I'd open the vehicle gate - there must be a reason for the sign but I can't think what it might be!

ainsworth74 · 17 Feb 2020

aye2beeviasea said:
Why does the sign say to open both gates? If I was a pedestrian and there were no vehicles waiting to cross I don't think I'd open the vehicle gate - there must be a reason for the sign but I can't think what it might be!

It could be clearer but that instruction is to road vehicles to open the gate on their side of the crossing and to open the gate on other side of the crossing so that they can drive straight over without stopping on the railway to open the exit gate. It is not intended for pedestrians whose instructions are provided on a separate notice just to the left of the pedestrian gate.

Bletchleyite · 17 Feb 2020

mmh said:
I'm talking about Britain. Only having used three trains in outside Britain and the US in my life I'm not qualified to have an opinion on what people do or don't do in Europe. The second part of my post, conveniently stripped, is where I explained how I think it must be perfectly clear to people new to Britain without signs.

I don't agree that what you say is adequate deterrent, and would favour provision of signage on the platform edge at all stations, it wouldn't cost a lot and would make the situation very clear. Even for non-English speakers, the "no people with a hard hat waving at the camera" sign is a European standard and is well understood everywhere.

In particular most European stations have subways and not all of them have barrow crossings (and indeed plenty still do in the UK even if most are not in passenger use, though some are e.g. Tywyn and I think a few Penistone Line stations). The platform height sort of is an indication but a very weak one.

Sign mentioned above

aye2beeviasea · 17 Feb 2020

Ah, that does make sense. And in fact is obviously how it should work now I think about it!

Meerkat · 17 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
I don't agree that what you say is adequate deterrent, and would favour provision of signage on the platform edge at all stations, it wouldn't cost a lot and would make the situation very clear. Even for non-English speakers, the "no people with a hard hat waving at the camera" sign is a European standard and is well understood everywhere.

In particular most European stations have subways and not all of them have barrow crossings (and indeed plenty still do in the UK even if most are not in passenger use, though some are e.g. Tywyn and I think a few Penistone Line stations). The platform height sort of is an indication but a very weak one.

Sign mentioned above

where do you put that sign so it makes sense?
In words you can put the “do not cross the line....” sign under the opposite platform edge, but I can’t think of an obvious pictograms.

Bletchleyite · 17 Feb 2020

This is what the Swiss do:

"Do not cross the line" sign in the 6-foot, with a "no standing with your arms out" type pictogram

But at Leeds a similar sign is placed on the opposite platform edge so you can see it from the one you're on, if you see what I mean.

Sprinter107 · 17 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
This is what the Swiss do:

"Do not cross the line" sign in the 6-foot, with a "no standing with your arms out" type pictogram

But at Leeds a similar sign is placed on the opposite platform edge so you can see it from the one you're on, if you see what I mean.

I think that's quite a good idea, but there are many people that will do exactly as they want, no matter how many signs you put out, and that's probably because they know there is very little possibility of them being caught.
As I said earlier, misuse of the pass cons and egress handles are on the increase, even though the necessary signs are there for all to view.

Grumpy Git · 17 Feb 2020

You also dont know what toxic substances they may have taken.

Also;

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0...4!1s6zBAz13AT_DbO67k-Qqhtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

........... must rank as one of the worst cases of signage I've ever seen in my life. What a mess!

TheSeeker · 17 Feb 2020

I've seen this twice in Belgium. Once a group of lads got off the S1 in De Hoek and all jumped off the platform behind the train and crossed the line. Really daft as the IC expresses go through there at full tilt. The second time a woman used the barrow crossing at my local station instead of using one of the underpasses but to be fair it does have warning lights connected to the signalling to warn staff of approaching trains. Not so obvious that it shouldn't be used by the public.

Took the train in Latvia and people walking along the tracks seemed to be quite common.

QueensCurve · 17 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
We say "idiocy" but there are plenty of places where it is perfectly normal practice e.g. much of eastern Europe. It does strike me that more signage clearly prohibiting it may be sensible.

In Switzerland there are "Überschreiten der Gleise ist Verboten" barriers in the 6 foot.

16-02-28-japanische-tafel-schweiz-rhaetische-bahn-1.jpg

markymark2000 · 17 Feb 2020

Do we need to go down the America route of having physical fences between the tracks to stop people crossing? It's another barrier for people or they have to walk to the platform ends and go that way.

(Though not overly common in America, it does happen quite a lot)

Though it might be unsafe and stepping back in time, barrow crossings were/are fantastic pieces of equipment so you can have better disability access and you can add the relevant safety equipment like lights to show if a train is coming. You can't put this stuff in a normal stations as then you are encouraging people to cross the tracks, at least offering a safer place to cross.

Grumpy Git · 17 Feb 2020

I remember Interlaken West before there was an underpasses and it's not so long ago either (maybe 2000?)

The platforms were also very short and if you alighted the ICE at the back end, there was a very narrow step about 4" wide to step down onto, like a low fence!

TUC · 17 Feb 2020

'A male passenger had already pulled the emergency chord'.

Is that when you need to urgently play a musical note?

Bletchleyite · 17 Feb 2020

Grumpy Git said:
You also dont know what toxic substances they may have taken.

Also;

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0...4!1s6zBAz13AT_DbO67k-Qqhtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

........... must rank as one of the worst cases of signage I've ever seen in my life. What a mess!

Yes, extremely poorly designed. I thought there was a recent case of an accident at that sort of crossing where the Coroner concluded it direly needed tidying up down to one sign which clearly gave instructions?

BucksBones · 17 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Yes, I've seen a station with those but I too can't recall where. I am of the view that with increased travel to the UK from countries where this is acceptable practice that it would be sensible for all stations to have such signs, and in some cases, where viable, to even consider the practice you sometimes see in Germany and Switzerland of just shoving a large fence down the middle of the 6-foot thus physically preventing anyone from crossing. (This is also done sometimes on roads to encourage underpass use, e.g. by MK Hospital).

Edit: it's not Brum International, is it? An airport station would be a logical place to have it, though barring platform alterations it isn't really a station where you would end up on the wrong one in the first place.

Saperstein said:
Don’t remember even having stepped foot on Brum International platforms TBH, though I’ve often passed through.

I’ve been to New Street a few times and as another poster mentioned Leads.

Though I’ve got it in the back of my mind it was an un-electrified station where I saw it.

Perhaps Hull? Or maybe somewhere in northern Scotland?

I hate it when I can’t remember lol

Saperstein

Yes Leeds but also at Birmingham New Street in big, shouty capital letters; although I can only recall seeing them at the extreme southern (A) ends of the platforms.

Spartacus · 17 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Yes, extremely poorly designed. I thought there was a recent case of an accident at that sort of crossing where the Coroner concluded it direly needed tidying up down to one sign which clearly gave instructions?

Trouble is that when you start to put lots of info on one sign people tend not to read any of it as it's harder to quickly pick out the peices that are relavent to them and they don't want to waste time reading it all to get to anything that might relate to them.

Scott M · 17 Feb 2020

HOOVER29 said:
When I was last at Tamworth (18th December 2019) doing photography there was a chap walking along platform 3. He wanted platform 2 but was unsure of the layout.

Rather than use the stairs he only went & threw his two suitcases onto the track & walked across the lines to platform 4 right in front of me & this other chap.

At Tamworth there must’ve been a rise in anti social behaviour as they now employ security to walk about the station. The two burly security guys grabbed the trespasser & yanked him up into a heap on the platform.

Within seconds every staff member on the station had appeared telling him that he was an idiot. 10 mins later the BTP turned up & carted him off. 4 mins after the line was cleared a cross country voyager shot through at speed.

Scary to think of someone doing that at Tamworth high-level. High speed line with the added bonus of being on a corner, they'd have no chance.

Scott M · 17 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
We say "idiocy" but there are plenty of places where it is perfectly normal practice e.g. much of eastern Europe. It does strike me that more signage clearly prohibiting it may be sensible.

The cynic in me wonders if more signage in general would be used as a chance to sue at locations where no signage is present.

Meerkat · 17 Feb 2020

Bletchleyite said:
This is what the Swiss do:

"Do not cross the line" sign in the 6-foot, with a "no standing with your arms out" type pictogram

But at Leeds a similar sign is placed on the opposite platform edge so you can see it from the one you're on, if you see what I mean.

I am not convinced that pictogram is all that clear - not sure I would understand it in isolation - and not sure which languages you would use.
I would say a continuous barrier like that could be viable if it was the warning alternating with adverts, but if you start doing that will the ORR suddenly say everywhere has to have them (with issues at listed stations)?
Also in the middle or on platform edges they will have to be cleaned - probably not an issue in Switzerland but a whole safety case palaver here.

Might be an idea to arrest the next egregious one, throw the book at them, then make sure it is all over social media.

sheff1 · 17 Feb 2020

mmh said:
The second part of my post, conveniently stripped, is where I explained how I think it must be perfectly clear to people new to Britain without signs.

I'm afraid your thoughts in that second part:

mmh said:
The obvious clues telling someone used to crossing the tracks that it's not done here are that nobody else is doing so, the presence of bridges and subways, and not least the height of the platforms and lack of walking routes across the tracks.

are wide of the mark. The presence of subways, bridges or high platforms and absence of walking routes in various other countries does not prevent people crossing the tracks at whatever point they see fit.
In one hotel in an Eastern European capital city the receptionist advised me the best way to access the station was across the tracks opposite. In the morning I joined various locals with suitcases and, in some cases, young children doing just that. The security officers at the station were not concerned in the slightest as people clambered up and down to/from the platforms.

Saperstein · 17 Feb 2020

BucksBones said:
Yes Leeds but also at Birmingham New Street in big, shouty capital letters; although I can only recall seeing them at the extreme southern (A) ends of the platforms.

And one at LMS. Have a look at the photograph posted by @ClubmanFan in post #1 of this thread

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/transport-for-wales-170-at-leamington-spa.200536/

Saperstein.

Geoff DC · 18 Feb 2020

Back in the 70s, European truck drivers used to park up in Damascus not far from the Central station on the Hejaz Line (Narrow Gauge) to visit the local agent.

Quite often we would get blocked into the parking area and to get out would staddle the track & drive along it until the nearest level crossing on the road out towards Jordan. It did help that not many trains still ran.

Passenger jumped onto tracks...

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